to me, it's the ultimate measure of desperation on the part of nurses to develop independence from physicians. that it has been turned into a "science" demeans the nursing profession terribly!
while there can be certainly a psychological/placebo effect, the seriousness with which even some phd's in nursing believe in literal truth of therapeutic touch simply amazes me.
it's witchcraft. sheer absolute nonsense in its highest refined form. the techniques are quite laughable, and have no place in medicine, any more than folk remedies supplied by witch doctors.
yet at virtually every major university, there are ladies with phd's running around who literally believe they've developed these powers in their hands. that they can "ruffle" and "realign" forces.
to many, this is the holy grail of nursing. to me, it's delusionary.
As they say, maybe we are at a point of a paradigm shift here anyway. Is it elitist to ask "what is science" anyway? But seriously, I KNOW that when Isit down and pet my dog there is something happening for the good. Would I accept it as a mode to change my eyesight (literally in need of fixing)-?
No. Do I suspect that the act of touching my dog has an effect on my immune system, my ability to maintain a more accurate focus, help prevent infection-absolutely.
Though I have not ever done an extensive study on the effect of touch, I suspect it is profound. Gees, look at Spitz's work way back many decades ago. Should TT be "required"? I don't know- I think it should be offerred to any patient who feels he/she might benefit. I do think "Psychoneuorimmunology" should be required alongside a course named "Aternate ways of Knowing",
Because they are the modern version of a shaman's practice. Patients have faith that they will work. There are many instances of a drug working because the patient thought it would, only to hear that new research shows that it really doesn't do what was thought...and the patient, upon hearing this, dies.
How about the sham knee surgeries? Those receiving sham surgery did as well as those who actually had the surgery. In fact, they usually had better function than those who had the real operation. Faith in action.
Faith or belief in something does help. If you don't believe in something, you will not be open to experiencing it. That means only that you will have less to offer a patient. Your toolbox will be short a few tools.
And faith may not always have to be present. Alberto Villoldo, Ph.D., psychologist and medical anthropologist, was made aware of this when he told a voodoo priest that he didn't believe in the stuff. When he went back to the states, the priest and another anthropologist did a ceremony and called him (collect) to see how he was doing "at the moment." He was not doing good and a trip to the ER showed that no cause could be found for his sudden illness.
I've studied shamanism before and will be studying with Alberto this summer as well as with some Huichol Indian shamans. The reason..the stuff works. While some may call it mumbo jumbo, it's just PNI and it's amazing ancient people had a handle on it way before modern medicine.
so you're telling me that medicine works via faith? no one is disputing the placebo effect, but i have a hard time swallowing that pharmacology is an unecessary science. i couldn't practice responsibly without a good understanding of this science.
then instead of giving medicines i suppose we could be giving normal saline and sugar pills, huh? that doesn't stand to reason.
all the examples you're giving are anecdotal and sum to prove nothing. the reasoning seems fuzzy.
i know of a doctor from nigeria who believes in reincarnation and life after death as a ghost. he told a story of a gravely ill child. a ghost came and told him to change the child's name. he relayed this to the parents, who changed the child's name. immediately the child became better, and grew up to become an engineer. does this prove reincanation and life after death?
it's fuzzy logic that connects the concepts that we're composed of matter in motion with an energy field to i can align your forces by waving my hands over you. why would these two things necessarily be related?
in the absolute vaccum of credible evidence to support TT, there's not a word for this belief except faith.
working your way from any sort of physics to the belief that i can use my forces to align your forces is a huge jump without any clear evidence. how can it be called anything except faith?
First of all, I would not be using MY FORCES to align YOUR FORCES (???) That sounds pretty yucky anyway. And, it's not my energy that you are receiving. We both are composed of energy systems that can become blocked or misaligned. In most of these modalities, certainly in TT and Reiki, the practitioner is a conduit for a healing energy, not the source of it. The practitioner is ALSO receiving a healing energy, as well as the client.
And, there are many studies demonstrating that these techniques work. You just have to look, and I don't mean Quack Watch. In the 1960's,
at McGill University in Montreal, the work of Dr. Benard Grad comes to mind. Dr. Krieger at NYU did measurable studies on hemoglobin as a biochemical indicator of healing energy influences in humans, as well as many other studies. Dr. Robert Miller, a research chemist in Atlanta, Ga studied the biological effects of healers on increasing the percentage of seed germination etc., etc.,. And I already mentioned others previously.
We both know, that for you, it's not going to matter. I could try to explain String Theory, in regards to the modality of Reconnective Healing, but it would be pointless. I can measure a wound that was not healing for months, before beginning to use these techniques. The nurse whose patient I covered for that weekend, was the one who contacted me about a decrease in size of the wound. Do I expect to change your mind?
No, and that is OK by me. We can agree to disagree, or not. I wish everyone well in their various belief systems!!!!
It's been an interesting discussion. I think you will be seeing much more
complementary and alternative options being offered. I think there is room for both traditional allopathic medicine as well as treatments that look more at addressing the cause of illness rather than fixing the symptoms.
"In most of these modalities, certainly in TT and Reiki, the practioner is a conduit for a healing energy, not the source of it. The practioner is ALSO receiving a healing energy, as well as the client. "
again, i'm asking for credible and non-anecdotal evidence in the form of scientific studies that stand up to mainstream peer review.
i could say that since i have an energy field and the earth has an energy field, therefore if i concentrate hard enough or flap my arms fast enough, i can levitate. to go from energy theories to saying that "i'm a conduit for healing energy to realign this client's blocked energy system" is a quantum leap where certainty is fished from nowhere. the only support i've seen is anecdotal evidence similar to what my physician friend told me about reincarnation and ghosts. there is as much proof for voodoo as TT.
of course, modern medicine has its shortcomings. we can't cure every disease. people die. people are psychological beings as well as physical beings. they have psychological needs that modern medicine cannot alone address. none of this is in dispute.
however, none of these things proves that alternative therapies have valid methodology behind them.
imagine life before modern medicine. disease killed incredible numbers. you could die from a hangnail. a condition needing routine surgery often meant certain death. our lives have been dramatically improved because of the application of scientific methods to medical practice. look at life expectantcy. why should we abandon science now to rely on mysticism?
if we're offering alternative therapies as a complimentary way of increasing client comfort, i have no problem with that. the question is whether they should be incorporated in the body of knowledge that we call nursing, as though they are proven fact.
i think the profession has a greater responsibility to the public, which is to rely on evidence based practice. otherwise, we're stepping into mysticism.
so you're telling me that medicine works via faith? no one is disputing the placebo effect, but i have a hard time swallowing that pharmacology is an unecessary science. i couldn't practice responsibly without a good understanding of this science.
No, I'm saying faith can increase the effectiveness of the meds. Your words and actions while giving it will also.
all the examples you're giving are anecdotal and sum to prove nothing. the reasoning seems fuzzy.
If double-blind studies are of questionable value, your foothold on non-anecdotal reality is very shaky.
it's fuzzy logic that connects the concepts that we're composed of matter in motion with an energy field to i can align your forces by waving my hands over you. why would these two things necessarily be related?
Quantum physics is the science of probability...and possibility. Right now there is the possibility that we are touching each other.
in the absolute vaccum of credible evidence to support TT, there's not a word for this belief except faith.
Look up the studies before you make a comment such as this...if you insist on studies.
I'm not so sure I believe Therapeutic Touch belongs in grad programs. However our bodies were designed to use electricity constantly and this should be addressed and understood. This page has a simple explanation of the electricity in our bodies - http://www.wsu.edu/DrUniverse/body.html. Because of experience I wholeheartedly support integrated medicine. My child with Trisomy 21 wouldn't be alive nor as functional as he is without our intervention on mainstream medicine's efforts with our own efforts to supplement and explore alternatives. I am currently taking med. courses as time allows. My personal view is that a marriage between mainstream and alternative would be lovely and that is how we treat our selves and our children. This site - http://www.kinginstitute.org/index.php is a Christian org. involving healing electrical touch. Jin Shin would be a non-Christian version. Many people are finding relief and healing with simple touch usually involving accupuncture points. There are many R.N.'s who work with holistic M.D.'s who would be very comfortable with Therapeutic Touch I believe. Our child with Down's had several reactions to vaccines until we figured out what was going on. We are on a long journey of recovery. DS can be supported with antioxidants and other supps to improve quality of life. Despite some views to the contrary this is proven with many med. studies that show people with DS to be highly oxidated for instance and they benefit from taking anti-oxidants. Many in the DS community also use TKM (a form of therapeutic touch) to help their loved ones with DS. A friend of mine whose child has DS and Spina Bifida found that every time she did the TKM sequence for urinary control her son's previously dysfunctional and tubed urethra would spontaneously begin to work. TKM has had a major effect on his life as his mom uses it regularly.
I realize this subject is "out there" for some folks. And for me it is also "out there" when people tie it into mysticism etc.. But I am a Christian and I pray and I thank God for my children and I ask for wisdom in caring for them. Understanding the science of our body's electricity seems to be a common sense thing to do. And therapeutic touch involves electricity. I don't always like the manner in which it's practiced. It's like so many things in life... a tool can be used for good or for bad. People sometimes attach some pretty strange things to something that is simply good on it's own.
i do think the study of the phenomena should be included in graduate level curriculum as required study. i don't mean that the techniques should be taught by faculty as though they're fact. i mean that the use of TT, witchcraft, religion, voodoo and a host of other alternative therapies should be studied. why do people turn to such therapies? how do they involve/affect the nurse? are there benefits? is there harm? what is the evidence, and how can it be evaluated?
Specializes in Oncology, General Medicine, Cardiology.
I am quite surprised at the resistance to be open to other forms of treatment and care. I have been doing a lot of reading and experimenting with all different forms of alternative medicine. It works! The first thing is to be open to possibilities, and I am seeing a lot of resistance here in this thread. The other is to educate yourself more on it before you slam the door on it. Alternative care comes from energy, love and connection, which I believe is why most nurses got into this profession in the first place. Unfortunately our health care system and stress has hardened a lot of people. In my eyes it is sad. I feel the pain that people are carrying and only wish for you that you would stop, breathe and quiet the body and mind for a moment to see where you really are. If at this point, you are saying I am full of &%$# then I rest my case. I wish you well all the same. For those of you who are more open to this, or at least curious, watch a movie called "What the Bleep do we know", available at most video stores, as well as "The Secret" which you can order on line from http://www.thesecret.tv/ If you take time to notice, there is a real shift in the world. People are coming back to basics. The kinds of movies coming out are more spiritual ie: the Da Vinci code, Celestine Prophecy etc and the kinds of books written by others such as Wayne Dyer, Eckhart Tolle are talking more about our inner truth and relying less on the exterior world. Even leadership books such as Inspire by Lance Secretan speak about how much people are looking for love, truth and connection. If we don't change our ways and open up our minds, the world cannot change. We are the catalysts of change. There is no mistake we are where we are right now and it is not wrong or right. It just is. My request: be open, be curious, be ready to learn and then make up your own mind. Thank you for opening up this discussion. It is an opportunity for us to learn about and from each other. Namaste!
to me, it's the ultimate measure of desperation on the part of nurses to develop independence from physicians. that it has been turned into a "science" demeans the nursing profession terribly!
while there can be certainly a psychological/placebo effect, the seriousness with which even some phd's in nursing believe in literal truth of therapeutic touch simply amazes me.
it's witchcraft. sheer absolute nonsense in its highest refined form. the techniques are quite laughable, and have no place in medicine, any more than folk remedies supplied by witch doctors.
yet at virtually every major university, there are ladies with phd's running around who literally believe they've developed these powers in their hands. that they can "ruffle" and "realign" forces.
to many, this is the holy grail of nursing. to me, it's delusionary.
comments?
Witchcraft? Really? Well, how about if we all pray that most nurses don't think like you that the only real work nurses can do is give drugs and monitor side effects with "assessments". Nursing without the spiritual aspect (notice I left all the religion out, which has nothing to do with spirituality) is nothing but a regular job. Real nursing involves keeping an open mind as to what works and what doesn't. Have you ever read any of the real research done by Dolores Krieger or Tiffany Field on energy healing? Have you ever experienced energy work? Western medicine is the number one killer of Americans, according the Life Extension Foundation, and kills over 1 million people a year. Aren't you proud of your work now?
zenman
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Gary Schwartz, Ph.D. I found the info in another book, but Gary has a website you might check out.