to me, it's the ultimate measure of desperation on the part of nurses to develop independence from physicians. that it has been turned into a "science" demeans the nursing profession terribly!
while there can be certainly a psychological/placebo effect, the seriousness with which even some phd's in nursing believe in literal truth of therapeutic touch simply amazes me.
it's witchcraft. sheer absolute nonsense in its highest refined form. the techniques are quite laughable, and have no place in medicine, any more than folk remedies supplied by witch doctors.
yet at virtually every major university, there are ladies with phd's running around who literally believe they've developed these powers in their hands. that they can "ruffle" and "realign" forces.
to many, this is the holy grail of nursing. to me, it's delusionary.
One example is the mammogram which is an electronic image of the radiant energy of the cells and tissues. But, if you start talking about “sensing energy” some people go berserk! I heard one guy say that modern medicine doesn’t even believe cell phones can work.
What does modern medicine have to do w/ the science of cell phones? In fact, every hospital I've worked in has a stated policy that the electro-magnetic field produced by cell phones can affect critical machinery, and is therefore not allowed in clinical areas. I would have to state, for the record, then, that modern medicine does understand the functioning of a cell phone. This statement is pure hyperbole.
But, there are many things that modern science cannot fully explain, even as it accepts as 'valid'. Try how helicopters fly.
Try the relationship between smoking and cancer. There is no proof that smoking causes cancer - or heart disease - at all. There is a high enough correlation, however, to state w/ some certainty that there IS a relationship.
And mammograms, cell phones, helicopters et all prove their efficacy because they can be SHOWN to work.
I'm not against the idea of TT. Personally, I believe in prayer. But let's be clear here: Just like prayer, TT is a spiritual belief in that it requires FAITH. I'm a very religious person. I would not choose to try to debunk anybody's spiritual beliefs.
But, spiritual beliefs are not science. If we want to be taken seriously in a scientific field, we should endeavor to be embrace a scientific body of knowledge.
For nursing to embrace a particular spiritual culture is a form of elitism. It not only detracts from our ability to represent ourselves credibly to our allied health peers, but, more importantly, to ourselves.
TT should not be taught in nursing programs any more than the power of a good Judeo-Christian prayer should be taught. That's not to say that nurses cannot believe in either and/or both. It's just that that body of knowledge should be an individual's adjunct to nursing's body of knowledge, and not a part of it.
Physics is the foundation for all sciences, but biological sciences (Western medicine) still rely on the outdated Newtonian viewpoint which fell out of favor around 100 years ago. I guess some people are slow to change.
The 'Newtonian' viewpoint, as you put it, is one of the key basis of modern science. It forms a key locus of our scientific Laws.
Exactly WHEN did the Laws of Science fall out of favor, and out of favor for whom? Einstein's view of the world does not contradict Newton's. They are merely different ways of looking at the same data. Or rather, they are differences in the observation of orders of magnitude and each viewpoint is relevant on its own level. Newton's observations looked at the trees in the same forest that Einstein observed (although Newton might have been a more literal observer of trees. LOL.)
And why an attack on 'Western' thought? Because TT is part of an Eastern spiritual movement? The two need not be mutually exclusive. But, if you have to attack modern science in order to embrace an Eastern ideology, that says something.
And if we, as nurses, must reject scientific processes for spiritual content, then how are we ever to fit into a scientific world?
I believe in God. But, I also happen to believe in Intra-Aortic Balloon Pumps. And those two thought processes: they aren't exclusive of each other.
I want my body of professional body of knowledge to include that IABP. I'll take care of incorporating God into my practice on my own. I seriously doubt that nursing COULD do a good job on incorporating THAT for me, in any case. In fact, I don't even want it to try.
(And if nursing WERE to try to codify my spiritual approach to practice, the very first priority to do so would be to renounce TT. Why? Because that IS mutually exclusive to my spiritual beliefs. And there's the rub. I'm not opposed to the spiritual belief of TT by others, but the concept does violate MY spiritual beliefs. Tell me, how is nursing, as a body of knowledge, supposed to accomodate such contradictory spiritual beliefs? But more importantly, tell me, why should it even try?)
Zenman, I'm not saying that there is not theory to explain how the practice may work, just that I'm not in an Ivory Tower theorizing about it. I'm using it. I've been taught a framework with which to work in as anyone who has studied these modalities would have been. Does this clarify for you? And, in case you are wondering, I am very familiar with theory.
What does modern medicine have to do w/ the science of cell phones? In fact, every hospital I've worked in has a stated policy that the electro-magnetic field produced by cell phones can affect critical machinery, and is therefore not allowed in clinical areas. I would have to state, for the record, then, that modern medicine does understand the functioning of a cell phone. This statement is pure hyperbole.
Then if one can do something so outrageous as talk...with no connection...between two people over a distance, then what's the big deal with energy based medicine...and TT?
Quantum mechanics is responsible for cell phones, CAT scans, lasers, TVs, computers, rocker ships, etc. The advances made by quantum mechanics in biomedical sciences...uh, there aren't any.
But, there are many things that modern science cannot fully explain, even as it accepts as 'valid'. Try how helicopters fly.
We know how helicopters fly. However, I also know what they feel like coming apart...Lord a' mercy!
And mammograms, cell phones, helicopters et all prove their efficacy because they can be SHOWN to work.
I can't see the wind either but I know it works, same with TT and other energy based work.
these discussions make me reflect on spiritual issues and how they would relate to my practice. as an agnostic and skeptic, i don't favor the nurse initiating any faith based practice to a patient. i feel that no patient should feel pressure from a nurse with a spiritual agenda. you've got someone who is a pinned down and trapped audience. the nurse's personal need to inject their faith based practices on patients should merit no consideration.
The 'Newtonian' viewpoint, as you put it, is one of the key basis of modern science. It forms a key locus of our scientific Laws.
Course it does. But things change and we now have new science, but medicine is stuck back with the old stuff.
Exactly WHEN did the Laws of Science fall out of favor, and out of favor for whom?
Claus Schnorrenberger, MD --"Western medical science is based upon the principals of natural science formulated in the nineteeth century...."
"Our natural science, at least our biology and medicine, still stand squarely by the Cartesian theory of the separation of the material from consciousness."
"...theoretical orthodox medicine which still bases its idea on those of the philosopher, limps far behind the advances made in other fields of scientific endeavor."
"Western medicine has no way of explaining the majority of diseases other than to resort to its reductionist concepts."
"Western medicine, which, at the moment, vastly overates itself as the only rational, scientific, and reliable form of medicine in the world."
Bruce Lipton, Ph.D. -- we biologists rely on the outmoded, albeit tidier, Newtonian version of how the world works."
"Yet even after the discoveries of quantum physics, biologists and medical students continue to be trained to view the body only as a physical machine that operates in accordance with Newtonian principles."
"...conventional researchers have completely ignored the role that energy plays in health and disease."
"(speaking of Newtonian thought)...that philosophy went out of vogue 75 years ago, when physicists officially adopted quantum mechanics and recognized that the Universe is actually made out of energy."
And why an attack on 'Western' thought? Because TT is part of an Eastern spiritual movement? The two need not be mutually exclusive. But, if you have to attack modern science in order to embrace an Eastern ideology, that says something.
I'm not attacking western thought (even if it one of the leading causes of death), it's just facts. Why does everything "Eastern" has to be connected with some spiritual movement...oh, wait...so is baseball in the Western world, LOL!
Each approaches methodology differently. Eastern: recognition of harmony in terms of yin-yang, and by observation and conclusion based on empiricism. Western: measuring and analyzing the smallest components of the body in hopes of understanding the whole. Since Western medicine is restricted to parts, it has not reached the level of Eastern medicine.
these discussions make me reflect on spiritual issues and how they would relate to my practice. as an agnostic and skeptic, i don't favor the nurse initiating any faith based practice to a patient. i feel that no patient should feel pressure from a nurse with a spiritual agenda. you've got someone who is a pinned down and trapped audience. the nurse's personal need to inject their faith based practices on patients should merit no consideration.
One more comment about the JAMA debacle. Three years prior, in 1995, "real" researchers, in a far more rigorious study, found that untrained college students could sense the subtle energy of an investigator's hand 66 percent of the time. In followup studies, researchers found that 58 percent of the students could tell when an investigator was merely gazing at the back of their head.
I can't see the wind either but I know it works, same with TT and other energy based work.
Ah, I see now. You are using the quantum physics stuff to suggest that the human body is a SPIRITUAL i.e. energy machine as well as a physical machine.
I agree.
I might not be able to "see" the energy behind prayer, but I know it works. AND MY UNDERSTANDING OF PRAYER LIES SQUARELY OPPOSED TO YOUR IDEAS ABOUT TT.
Both are spiritual energy fields. Mine is the right understanding of such, yours is wrong. And I'm perfectly entitled to that viewpoint. You disagree? Prove it.
And there's the problem. And that being the problem, I'll repeat my question: why should the body of nursing knowledge weigh into a spiritual debate, on any side?
How can nursing weigh in on such an issue without creating divisions among not only our allied health peers, but amongst ourselves?
Spiritual discussions have no place in a science based dictum. That's not to discredit the spiritual, of which I'm a high believer. That's not to say that 'modern medicine ignores the spiritual'. It IS to say that our profession does not need, nor can it rationally devise, a body of knowledge that uniformly incorporates such thought. That spirituality is as diverse as our religious beliefs. In fact, they ARE our religious beliefs.
And that is simply different from a uniform science, which can be taught based upon fact; not faith.
I trust our individual practitioners to bring their OWN spirituality to the table . . . and the bedside . . . without interference from a nursing perspective that simply cannot provide uniformity to that individuality, no matter how hard it tries or who it may offend in the process.
TT as a principle doesn't offend me. But, because I not only DON'T believe in it, but believe in a mutually exclusive viewpoint, TT as a part of nursing's body of knowledge is offensive in its elitism.
And only someone in an Ivory Tower can't see that. (That's not a comment directed at those that believe in TT, but to our so-called nursing leadership. They are elitist to the point of exclusion and so, divisive in their viewpoints; and then they wonder why nursing has no unified voice.)
TT as part of nursing knowlege is but a symptom of a larger problem: academic elitism. It's result in my case, and in the case of ever growing numbers, is the sub-total dismissal of the Ivory Tower. They simply aren't relevant to my practice, by THEIR very own choice.
if medicine is a "faith based practice", then why do we need to use drugs, surgery, etc?
as far as faith.. yes, i have faith that the laws of the universe are constant, so that scientific method is a valid way to build practice based on physical evidence. but that's about it.
all the key advances in medicine were based on science. i can't think of one that comes from faith. that our understanding of science isn't perfect doesn't detract from its accomplishment one iota.
as timothy stated, TT does tend to foster an elitism that is based on faith, not science. i've seen this firsthand and i found it to be like the emperor's new clothes.
why shouldn't we incorporate christian or muslim or hindu or rastifarian or wiccan practices into nursing? should we teach these in grad schools as well?
NRSKarenRN, BSN, RN
10 Articles; 19,177 Posts
Dr Barrett license info available here:
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Licensed 8/1958 and went on inactive status 12/1994. No disciplinary history listed.