The Working Poor-Nurses

jobellestarr · Dec 17, 2023

We need so little to have our needs met. Then somehow nurses think we make a great salary and why not pick up a shift or two so I can buy that thing I need. I can't tell you how many people I know that have died shortly before or after retirement or their bodies are ruined. Not worth it. Buy little, save big, retire early.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Dec 18, 2023

(Not every nurse can pick up extra shifts due to obligations with their children and their spouse's work schedule.)

I'm pretty decent with money. I'm single and live alone in a home I'm buying. I'm not in debt and drive a paid-for Toyota Corolla, save for retirement and an emergency. I do set aside month a certain amount of money to travel because I'm not waiting until I retire to see places I want to see. That's one area I can cut back on if I need to.

At the same time, I've watched my disposable income dwindle away to practically nothing due to inflation and rising insurance costs here in Florida. My electric bill went up $60 a month since past year, my car insurance has doubled over the last three years (and I've switched to a cheaper company), my homeowners and flood insurance went up $1100 this year (and I'm one of the lucky ones) and my grocery bill has definitely went up. The price of caring for my two elderly dogs has gone up. On and on and on.......

I can and do work extra shifts and that helps a lot but right now there isn't a lot of overtime available but there has been in years prior.

I can understand how a family of four even with a nice middle income can struggle to make ends meet. She shouldn't be judged until we know the whole story.

DavidFR, BSN, MSN, RN · Dec 18, 2023

Threads like this make me feel very lucky.

I hear stories of my native UK where apparently some nurses are using food banks and I just think "Holy **** how did we get to this?"

I live in France where the nursing the salary is decent. Not enormous but decent. Macron gave us two enormous pay rises as a result of Covid which helped alot, and made our specific hardships during that period feel recognized. The one thing I don't have is a car, not out of not being able to afford one but I just don't feel I need one (I live in the greater Paris area where public transport is excellent 24 hours a day, and being someone who likes a drink I would never mix that with driving on an evening out.) Otherwise I have a comfortable two bedroom apartment and we (my husband retired early on health grounds) never worry about the food bills or putting the heating on. We have a good social life enjoying things like theatre, cinema and eating out. We enjoy holidays and have managed to buy a small holiday studio in the south. We don't live extravagantly but I would say we are comfortable. I can't complain. I do grab extra shifts but that's for luxuries and savings, not out of necessity.

This is what gets me. On paper we moved to a poorer country with higher taxes, lower GDP, worse economic markers etc. And yet our lived experience is that when we lived in the UK (admittedly in brutally expensive London), we never had any money and we were both working full time in senior positions (for those who knew the old UK grading system, I was an H grade and he was an F grade). Now we live just outside Paris (we did used to live in Paris itself) on one full time, not that senior wage, and a pension and we seem to live far better than we did in the UK. This is where I think economic models are flawed. The US is the world's largest economy and yet some professional, educated nurses can't get by? Why does poverty exist in the world's richest economy?

I think it's disgraceful that in any country nurses can't get by. We're educated, we're professional, the job we do is amazing. Are we not militant enough? Is it no shock that countries with better conditions for nurses (France, Australia) have strong unions? Just a thought.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Dec 18, 2023

DavidFR said:

The US is the world's largest economy and yet some professional, educated nurses can't get by? Why does poverty exist in the world's richest economy?

I think it's disgraceful that in any country nurses can't get by. We're educated, we're professional, the job we do is amazing. Are we not militant enough? Is it no shock that countries with better conditions for nurses (France, Australia) have strong unions? Just a thought.

The US is only the "world's richest economy" because of its size. We don't have our priorities set well to benefit the middle classes or lower classes. This year the military budget was nearly 900 billion US dollars...that's with a B. Meanwhile some military families in the lower ranks have to go on assistance programs to feed their families.

Meanwhile the top 1% of wealth owners own more wealth than the middle class that makes up 60% of the population. While I've seen my income drop due to inflation the CEO of the "not for profit" I work for took home about 3.5 to 5 million depending on the source.

I don't work for a unionized hospital but one here is so bad they almost got voted out.

Oh well, that's not the topic of the thread and I'm going off on a tangent. LOL

allnurses Guide · Dec 19, 2023

DavidFR said:

The US is the world's largest economy and yet some professional, educated nurses can't get by? Why does poverty exist in the world's richest economy?

I blame consumerism on steroids. I live in the US in Southern California (2nd highest cost of living in the country) We live in the house my husband grew up in and maintain a small mortgage for tax purpose. Still if we had to buy the same house today we couldn't afford the monthly payment on two salaries. Food isn't a problem as I grow most of the vegetables and fruits that we eat. The only thing we routinely buy is meat, eggs and sundries. we don't drink animals based milk thougfh I love a good goat cheese.

There is this constant need especially among professionalss to show our success off to others. This leaves many people between the margins and struggling. Things are a tight for us right now due to having a young adult in college but an agree it shouldn't be that way since many countries have tuition free college.

Not sure what the answer is as most would say "live within your means1" but with the current inflation situation who really knows what that is.

Hppy

IslanderEllie · Dec 19, 2023

hppygr8ful said:

I blame consumerism on steroids.

I agree with this sentiment. Of course inflation is a big factor, but I think many of us can likely make do with a lot less. I'm trying every day to spend less and focus on the things that truly make me happy.

Accolay · Dec 20, 2023

I have so many questions/thoughts:

What part of the country does this nurse work?

Does she work full time as in 40 hours per week?

How long has she been working as a nurse?

Where does she work- hospital? nursing home?

Kids are expensive, that's why a lot of people have decided not to have them.

Corporations are greedy. A lot of that "inflation" we're experiencing was just them raising prices because they can.

I'd like to see their budget and where their money is going. Survey says that what's left of the middle class in America is not good at holding onto cash.

allnurses Guide · Dec 20, 2023

Accolay said:

Kids are expensive, that's why a lot of people have decided not to have them.

It's an easy statement to make but for many, children come along as a bit of a surprise. Family planning is great that's what my husband and I did but once the bun is in the oven some elements of planning go out the window. Of course Abortion is legal but the decision to have one is deeply personal.

Also parenting and activities kids usually involve in are expensive but sometimes we need to teach our kids how to do things on a budget.

Going back to the consumerism model .... I have a nurse friend at work who went to a for profit school and got an ADN for 85K. 85K for an associates degree is insane. She has decided to defer her student loans and now has bought a brand new Tesla. In essance adding debt on dept. I'll be 61 in February and I only one one new car in my life. The rest were servicable used cars that got me where I needed to go.

Still I have also been homeless in the Winter in Oregon and that was no fun at all.

Hppy

brandy1017, ASN, RN · Dec 21, 2023

hppygr8ful said:

I blame consumerism on steroids. I live in the US in Southern California (2nd highest cost of living in the country) We live in the house my husband grew up in and maintain a small mortgage for tax purpose. Still if we had to but the same house today we couldn't afford the monthly payment on two salaries. Food isn't a problem as I grow most of the vegetables and fruits that we eat. The only thing we routinely buy is meat, eggs and sundries. we don't drink animals based milk thougfh I love a good goat cheese.

There is this constant need especially among professionalss to show our success off to others. This leaves many people between the margins and struggling. This a tight for us right now due to having a young adult in college but a agree it should be that way since many countries have tuition free college.

Not sure what the answer is as most would say "live within your means1" but with the current inflation situation who really knows what that is.

Hppy

I don't think it's necessarily consumerism. In America so much of the basics are extremely expensive that are supplied by most other countries such as health care, child care and college. Just the cost of family health insurance, deductibles and out of pockets can overwhelm many family budgets. For many people, with the cost of child care, it makes more sense to be a stay at home mom, at least during the early years, if that is an option. But for some like single moms, it;'s not, and without support or going it debt, it's not possible. Lastly, student loans, the elephant in the room, is an albatross on many people's backs and up until recently the PSLF, Public Student Loan Forgiveness Program had a 99% rejection rate thru no fault of one's own!

Finally that is being rectified, but the whole system is bankrupt in my opinion. Sadly, the government took away bankruptcy protections decades ago on student loans and Biden was instrumental in that, both government and private loans! Now that it is a reelection year he is fighting for student loan forgiveness. Even if he had succeeded in getting all the forgiveness he promised it wouldn't fix the problem, especially for those in the future. I think restoring bankruptcy is the most important priority for everyone now and in the future!

I know this is a little off topic, but it bothers me, not for myself as I paid off my loans almost ten years ago. While it was a struggle, I thankfully never defaulted. But there are still many toxic, unfair problems with the student loan program. Such as you can default in 9 months and after that they will add a 25% fee of the total balance as a penalty to your loans that capitalizes, that is one of the reasons why people can end up with 2-3X what they started out with. State of Florida even added a 3% penalty for default!

Also these income based programs, incur negative amortization, where you pay less than the interest, another reason why the loans may spiral out of control. The best forgiveness plan only applies to non profits and as we know in some areas of the country, there are a lot of for profits like HCA where nurses wouldn't qualify. I think it would be best to just pay it off ASAP as some savvy people do, like some travel nurses, rather than have it hang over your head. Truth is, the Republicans have been wanting to eliminate the forgiveness programs, as well, so it would be best not to count on them.

Lastly, even if you get forgiveness as of 2025 you will owe federal taxes on that as if it was ordinary taxable income, unless that has changed, and with the magic of negative amortization it will really harm someone. Not to mention, some states will tax it as well. Also, forgot to mention, for some odd reason you can only refinance your loans once so if you did when interest rates were high and then came down you were stuck! I had a friend stuck at 9% when rates had dropped below 5%. Now I know they are climbing again, but it is just more evidence of so many problems with the whole system that harm people, mostly women as they now go to college more than men and eventually families!

Going back to the OP's original lament, I do believe many nurses with children and even two incomes could be struggling given the current inflation and that most hospitals/employers are stingy with raises! I don't think it is necessarily because they are indulging in shopping.

MarkMyWords · Dec 21, 2023

Not only nurses, also many teachers and part-time professionals in different walks of life can barely get by. This is a very old problem. In the Seventies I recall it well. Except now there are far more billionaires and the like. If one is frugal like I am (without sacrificing recreation, vacations, small luxuries) you may be surprised how much you can afford.

Amanda Villa · Dec 23, 2023

I say, God Bless these nurses,who go out the way to take risks ,the hard way to help others take meds the right way and right amount..

It suxs but thats what nurses and soilders ,and warriors do they put their life up..and if anything happens one day to our nurses, well know that the pain Jesus went through cant compare..and to know the unconditional love meaning, and knowing her or his children WILL NEVER LACK..and then they can see what love ,care and life is!