The Value of AN

Nurses General Nursing

Published

Part of the value of AN is that it conveys the norms of the career we've all (or most of us, anyway) chosen to those who otherwise wouldn't have any way of finding out the norms. Nurses know that you don't call yourself a nurse unless you've been through an accredited program, passed the licensing exam, and hold a nursing license. But evidently some nursing schools don't cover that fact (or some posters were asleep when it was covered) and don't know that. And pre-nursing students wouldn't know unless someone told them. Someone told them right here on the site, and all anyone had to do was read the thread. That's awesome! That's a resource I could have benefitted greatly from when I was a lowly nursing student. Or a brand new nurse. Or even a not-so-new nurse who couldn't figure out why my co-workers hated me. (It's obvious now, but it wasn't then, and one post here would have cleared up the mystery for me pretty darned quick, had I the intelligence to pay attention.)

There are those who ask the question and there are hundreds more of those who can benefit from the answer, whether or not they themselves thought to ask the question. "Do I really have to drive to work in the snow?" "How do I survive working the night shift when I'm always tired?" "Why does my preceptor hate me?" "Fired -- now what?" All these burning questions -- and more -- are asked and answered on AN, and even if you didn't ask the question, reading through the answers may give you glimmers of insight you didn't know you needed. It's a valuable resource.

Like any profession, ours has norms. One of the toughest things about being a newbie is inadvertently stepping on the norms of your profession, and not realizing that you did so until your colleagues are ostracizing you. Reading AN can prevent some of that drama. Yes, you have to drive to work in the snow and it's unwise to insist to your manager that "it's not worth my life" to show up when you're scheduled. Yes, you really have to work your night shifts and your colleagues will be unimpressed when you insist that you're really too special to work nights, or that you shouldn't have to because it makes you miserable. Yes, hospitals do have IT departments scanning the social media for references to their institution or posts by their employees or potential employees. Now whether you've paid attention and internalized the advice is another story.

What I really cannot understand is why those who can benefit most from the free insights and advice offered on AN not only reject the information but angrily insist that it's incorrect or unimportant. I do know that it tells me a lot about that person, and what kind of an employee and a colleague they will make in the future. And, being the kind of person that I am, I'll admit that it can also lead to a helluva entertaining thread!

But you ostracize newbies on AN all the time...

Just because it's anonymous doesn't mean your harsh comments to new nurses, students, pre-nurses aren't taken to heart (and not in a good way). I've been on AN for a while now, and I find myself wincing at your reflexive responses to novices (and I swear whenever a newbie thread is posted, there you are ready to cut them down). My intention here is not to insult you, but this is an honest observation. Your unprompted initiation of this thread--claiming AN is a safe harbor for newbies--is just ironic...

Ostracism is not the same thing as criticism. If we were to ostracize newbies we wouldn't speak to them, wouldn't respond to their posts, and would completely ignore them and let them sink or swim. We wouldn't care what happened to them. If we were at work with them, we wouldn't sit with them at lunch or carpool or invite them out for drinks after work. That's ostracism.

You are clearly confusing ostracism with lack of unconditional acceptance and support. What you think are reflex responses to newbie misconceptions look that way because, like many reflexes, they get triggered by the same stimuli all the time. It's not because the triggers for these responses come from newbies (though they do, more often than anyone else). It's because the triggers come from newbies, if that makes any sense.

Correcting misapprehensions that come from people who are, quite literally, clueless isn't personal. It's because we care enough to help save their bacon for the time when they aren't at their keyboards writing to/reading AN. It is, again quite literally, the safest place for newbies to learn.

Learning here doesn't involve making a med error, getting in trouble with a family, running afoul of the unwritten rule about ******** off the cranky staffing coordinator on Friday, or giving inadequate assessment data to a physician. Hearing corrective advice from us here helps them avoid getting in genuine trouble for all of that, and more. I think that's what Ruby means, and there's no irony there at all.

The irony is that other clueless people don't see how valuable this kind of advice is, and in encouraging others to disregard it, they compound the difficulty coming at the original posters. That's irony.

Specializes in Med/Surg/ICU/Stepdown.
Ostracism is not the same thing as criticism. If we were to ostracize newbies we wouldn't speak to them wouldn't respond to their posts, and would completely ignore them and let them sink or swim. We wouldn't care what happened to them. If we were at work with them, we wouldn't sit with them at lunch or carpool or invite them out for drinks after work. That's ostracism. You are clearly confusing ostracism with lack of unconditional acceptance and support. What you think are reflex responses to newbie misconceptions look that way because, like many reflexes, they get triggered by the same stimuli all the time. It's not because the triggers for these responses come from newbies (though they do, more often than anyone else). It's because the triggers come from newbies, if that makes any sense. Correcting misapprehensions that come from people who are, quite literally, clueless isn't personal. It's because we care enough to help save their bacon for the time when they aren't at their keyboards writing to/reading AN. It is, again quite literally, the safest place for newbies to learn. Learning here doesn't involve making a med error, getting in trouble with a family, running afoul of the unwritten rule about ******** off the cranky staffing coordinator on Friday, or giving inadequate assessment data to a physician. Hearing corrective advice from us here helps them avoid getting in genuine trouble for all of that, and more. I think that's what Ruby means, and there's no irony there at all. The irony is that other clueless people don't see how valuable this kind of advice is, and in encouraging others to disregard it, they compound the difficulty coming at the original posters. That's irony. [/quote']

It may be a "safe place to learn" but that doesn't prevent it from also being a newbie feeding frenzy at times. It can detour new nurses from every returning or even accepting advice because the context in which it's offered is often ridiculously demeaning. I think the sarcasm and the insults are unnecessary. If one wants to correct a mistake or a misconception, one ought to stick to the facts and leave the sarcasm elsewhere. Otherwise, it isn't conducive to learning. It will cause the person to tune out and very little is retained that way.

Specializes in Med-Surg, NICU.

I didn't realize nursing students were considered "lowly". Nice.As for the original post, right message from the wrong messenger.

Specializes in OR, Nursing Professional Development.
It may be a "safe place to learn" but that doesn't prevent it from also being a newbie feeding frenzy at times. It can detour new nurses from every returning or even accepting advice because the context in which it's offered is often ridiculously demeaning. I think the sarcasm and the insults are unnecessary. If one wants to correct a mistake or a misconception, one ought to stick to the facts and leave the sarcasm elsewhere. Otherwise, it isn't conducive to learning. It will cause the person to tune out and very little is retained that way.

Unlike face to face communication, online anonymous communication loses that human element of tone of voice and body language. Someone may read far too much into a post when lacking that interaction. It's not always the sender; sometimes it is indeed the receiver. If one goes in looking for a "newbie feeding frenzy", then that is what one will find. If one goes in expecting honest feedback, then again, that is what one will find. Attitude counts for a lot.

Specializes in Med/Surg, Ortho, ASC.
It may be a "safe place to learn" but that doesn't prevent it from also being a newbie feeding frenzy at times. It can detour new nurses from every returning or even accepting advice because the context in which it's offered is often ridiculously demeaning. I think the sarcasm and the insults are unnecessary. If one wants to correct a mistake or a misconception, one ought to stick to the facts and leave the sarcasm elsewhere. Otherwise, it isn't conducive to learning. It will cause the person to tune out and very little is retained that way.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree that a "newbie feeding frenzy" happens here. For one thing, the mods are some of the strictest on the internet and that simply wouldn't be allowed.

However, I will agree that newbies aren't babied, particularly the newbies who do come here full of self-confidence and a self-assuredness that their newly-minted NCLEX scores assure that they are the voice of an expert nurse. If someone (experienced or "in-") makes strong statements that are unsound, misleading, incorrect or simply argumentative, they will be responded to in kind. Well, as "in kind" as the moderators allow.

If I were honest, I would say that I personally see so many more new posters who turn into rude, ungrateful-for-the-time-you-took-to-answer b******s than I do snarly long-time regulars. Just about 100% of the time, the newbies turn that way on the basis of an answer or two that simply do not please them (as in "perhaps you were in the wrong in this case?") or that do not fit their idea of the correct answer.

But then, I'm simply one of the COBs.:yes:

Specializes in Med/Surg/ICU/Stepdown.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree that a "newbie feeding frenzy" happens here. For one thing the mods are some of the strictest on the internet and that simply wouldn't be allowed. However, I will agree that newbies aren't babied, particularly the newbies who do come here full of self-confidence and a self-assuredness that their newly-minted NCLEX scores assure that they are the voice of an expert nurse. If someone (experienced or "in-") makes strong statements that are unsound, misleading, incorrect or simply argumentative, they will be responded to in kind. Well, as "in kind" as the moderators allow. If I were honest, I would say that I personally see so many more new posters who turn into rude, ungrateful-for-the-time-you-took-to-answer b******s than I do snarly long-time regulars. Just about 100% of the time, the newbies turn that way on the basis of an answer or two that simply do not please them (as in "perhaps you were in the wrong in this case?") or that do not fit their idea of the correct answer. But then, I'm simply one of the COBs.:yes:[/quote']

I am completely okay with agreeing to disagree.

Specializes in OR, Nursing Professional Development.
I didn't realize nursing students were considered "lowly". Nice.As for the original post, right message from the wrong messenger.

I don't think Ruby meant "lowly" in the way you're taking it. To me, it was rather tongue in cheek. As for being from the wrong messenger, why isn't Ruby qualified? She's an experienced nurse and a respected poster on the forum. Perhaps you should keep your personal dislike of her private instead of potentially derailing a good thread?

I think AN is a lot like the real world. People ask for advice & either do not want to take it or get offended by what is provided back to them.

This is a particularly useless way to react because AN is (for the most part, depending on the poster) an anonymous forum. You can get uninhibited feedback on your situation without being identified.

I appreciate what I read, especially from the "vet" nurses & mostly get perturbed when newbies or pre nursing students try to answer beyond their scope of experience.

It seems like everyone acknowledges the anonymity of an online forum, but then forget that they are responding to anonymous people when they express frustration with their perception of "newbie know-it-alls". For example, there was a thread awhile back where the OP shared her/his shock at how a confused patient was "spoken down to" by his nurse. The OP sounded like s/he hadn't had much exposure to a hospital setting and was looking for guidance regarding something that troubled her. There were quite a few "COB" responders that totally derailed her thoughtful thread by criticizing her lack of respect for this obviously experienced nurse (paraphrasing here). A few suggested nursing was not right for her. The whole thing seemed really unfortunate, and not the right direction for an anonymous thread.

We don't know anything about each other for the most part. As someone else just pointed out, we don't have the benefit of all of the other gestures that facilitate communication. Giving thoughtful and constructive feedback is great, but in this setting, words are all you have to do that. If your words indicate that you are judging the person you are responding to, you don't have the real life encounter to back it up if you really meant to be supportive.

Specializes in Med-Surg, NICU.
I don't think Ruby meant "lowly" in the way you're taking it. To me, it was rather tongue in cheek. As for being from the wroNguyen messenger, why isn't Ruby qualified? She's an experienced nurse and a respected poster on the forum. Perhaps you should keep your personal dislike of her private instead of potentially derailing a good thread?

It is like a smoker telling someone else that smoking is bad. While the smoker may be right, he or she cannot be taken seriously as he or she is contradicting the message.

While I do think she has contributed to AN, I also think she has turned off a lot of people from AN thanks to some of her inflammatory threads and her demeaning posts. AN is a great website, but posters shouldn't have to fear that a personal vent will garner a disparaging thread meant to deride the target.

Remember people will be more receptive to honey than vinegar...but that does not mean babying anyone.

Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.

I had no idea that the purpose of this thread was to call out people you don't like.

Calling someone out is totally different from "not liking them". It's making a statement based on observation. It's not personal.

Also, when I used the term "COB" earlier I meant it in an endearing way--for people who are self-proclaimed COBs. Just re-read my previous post and realized I might need to clarify that. I love COBs :)

+ Add a Comment