The right to refuse.. on what basis??

Nurses General Nursing

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Hi guys,

I had a very interesting discussion with a work colleague today based on a topic he saw on another forum. It turned into a very heated argument amoungst staff members and so I would be interested to see what anyone else thinks.

The question posed was: 'Could a health professional refuse to treat a patient?' The answer to this was of course: yes a health professional does have that right.. especially in cases where treatment options can be unsafe for the nurse or the client.

However.... could a health professional refuse to treat on the basis of religious or cultural beleifs??

For example.. lets say a catholic pharmacist refuses to fill a prescription for an oral contraceptive based on the fact that this is against the pharmacist's beleifs?? The pharmacist has the right to refuse.. but by doing so is he infringing on the cultural beleifs of the client?? Or should he deny his own beleifs between the hours of nine to five to appease others??

Or another example: a surgeon in an emergency department refusing to give a patient a blood transfusion due to the surgeons religious beleifs??

My workplace was split in two by this argument. On one hand some people think that the right to refuse should be irrespective of the type of reason, or simply you should not enter a job in which you have obvious personal dilemmas.

On the other hand, some believe that letting your own personal beleifs affect the health of your clients is unprofessional, and that refusal of treatment should not be for personal cultural or religious beleifs but instead should be for safety or precautionary reasons.

There is alot of talk about cultural safety when a nurse is dealing with a client.. but how about the respect of our own cultures in our nursing practice?

It poses some interesting questions.. Id be glad to know what you all think

JW do not believe that a transfusion is a "ticket to Hell." We don't even believe in Hell.

I'm not picking on DayRay personally, but this is what I mean when I say people who don't fully understand our beliefs shouldn't speak on them as if they were experts:

This whole post is full of inaccuracies about JW and what they believe. Again, I am not picking on any one individual, but this is one of the reasons people have negative opinions about JW (and other faiths, for that matter).

JW do not feel that way about non-Witness patients, period. I'm offended by this, that someone would think I am so unfeeling about others. That runs contrary to everything JW believe in.

I'm sorry I was'nt trying to offend anyone. In fact I thought I was trying to say that people should have the freedome to belive and hold true to what ever they belive in.

Anyhow I guess I was in error and will keep my mouth shut. I have also deleted my post.

Even if this were true (the hell part), what if there was nobody else that could do it? Would it be OK to allow someone to die so someone else didn't have to compromise their own beliefs? Which the unfortunate dead person did not believe in because they had their OWN beliefs??

As I have stated before, it would be immoral and unethical, both religiously and professionally, for a JW to refuse to allow a pt to die by refusing a pt a prescibed treatment.

People keep bringing this issue up like it happens all the time; that pts are dying all over the place or are otherwise harmed/maimed because of JW nurses/medical professionals.

Again, Witness medical professionals who have objections to administering blood usually refrain from working in areas where there is a likelihood of a transfusion taking place. If a pt were to die because of a Witness refusing treatment for a pt, in the eyes of the faith, that Witness would be considered "bloodguilty"; in other words, responsible in the eyes of God for that person's death. It is a very serious issue for us. We're certainly not going to risk our own standing with God.

No one is ever denied care. I don't know where people keep coming up with this. It makes us sound like we are cruel, heartless people who stand coldly by the pt's bedside and watch the pt die. Come on...let's be realistic. If push came to shove, don't you think a nursing supervisor would step in and do the transfusion/pull someone to the floor to do the transfusion? Do you honestly think the hospital would allow a pt. to die under these circumstances?

One more time: JW medical personnel who are uncomfortable with giving blood do not as a general rule tend to work in areas where there is a good chance of having to do so. This is discussed at the time of an interview, and if a JW who is uncomfortable with giving blood does take a job on a unit where transfusions occur, it is with the full understanding of the nurse manager that someone will have to do the transfusion for the Witness.

DayRay: I appreciate what you were trying to do. I just didn't want people to come away with the wrong idea about what we believe. I know you meant well.

Specializes in 5 yrs OR, ASU Pre-Op 2 yr. ER.
However.... could a health professional refuse to treat on the basis of religious or cultural beleifs??

Common sense says to try and get a job to avoid this happening, no matter what the reasons.

Specializes in Oncology/Haemetology/HIV.
I'm sorry I was'nt trying to offend anyone. In fact I thought I was trying to say that people should have the freedome to belive and hold true to what ever they belive in.

I, for one, am still looking for that job that allows me to be off every Friday night to Saturday afternoon, prohibits me from serving jello, ham sandwiches or a roast beef and cheese.

But, alas for me, I have chosen to continue being sinful and untrue to my beliefs.

(I am always amazed at how many Jewish Cosmetic surgeons that there are...they can't all be doing burn or accident repair)

Specializes in Telemetry, ICU, Resource Pool, Dialysis.

Fab4Fan : I think the reason that seems to be first on the agenda in every discussion like this is that it is just the first thing that comes to mind for people. I think it's great that you are trying to dispel the myths around it.

I was only using the example given to argue my point. But it could be anything. Say... the alcohol example that someone gave earlier.

No, I don't think the situation is realistic - I'm sure someone else could be found in an emergency situation. I just meant hypothetically. Just basically: Is it OK for anyone, of any faith or belief, to allow a patient to be harmed in order to preserve their own beliefs.

What I would really like to see are people with strong religious convictions realizing that their convictions are just their own and it is not their place to force their beliefs on anyone else. I'm really appalled by some of the things I'm reading.

Very well put.

I, for one, am still looking for that job that allows me to be off every Friday night to Saturday afternoon, prohibits me from serving jello, ham sandwiches or a roast beef and cheese.

I used to work at a Jewish hospital and worked Friday night shifts for a coworker who was Jewish. The hospital was so well set up for the observant families that it was really neat (we had kosher meal service, electric candles, even a Sabbath elevator). Sorry, ot I know, but you made me nostalgic :chuckle

I used to work at a Jewish hospital and worked Friday night shifts for a coworker who was Jewish. The hospital was so well set up for the observant families that it was really neat (we had kosher meal service, electric candles, even a Sabbath elevator). Sorry, ot I know, but you made me nostalgic :chuckle

I worked at Maminonites, Brooklyn. Half of our staff was observant and half were gentiles. It was a perfect fit for everyone concerned. We all got our religious holidays off and we all learned a great deal of tolerence from one another. The neighborhood was half Italian and half observant. It is still half observant but is now half Muslim. There is currently a prayer room, in the hospital, for their Muslim patients. And not hate, only respect. Too bad the rest of the world cannot learn from this Brooklyn community.

Grannynurse :balloons:

I worked at Maminonites, Brooklyn. Half of our staff was observant and half were gentiles. It was a perfect fit for everyone concerned. We all got our religious holidays off and we all learned a great deal of tolerence from one another. The neighborhood was half Italian and half observant. It is still half observant but is now half Muslim. There is currently a prayer room, in the hospital, for their Muslim patients. And not hate, only respect. Too bad the rest of the world cannot learn from this Brooklyn community.

Grannynurse :balloons:

Our hospital now has many more gentiles than Jewish staff. Most of the patients and many of the staff members are Muslim and like you said, we never had any problems with that.

Specializes in Oncology/Haemetology/HIV.
I worked at Maminonites, Brooklyn. Half of our staff was observant and half were gentiles. It was a perfect fit for everyone concerned. We all got our religious holidays off and we all learned a great deal of tolerence from one another. The neighborhood was half Italian and half observant. It is still half observant but is now half Muslim. There is currently a prayer room, in the hospital, for their Muslim patients. And not hate, only respect. Too bad the rest of the world cannot learn from this Brooklyn community.

Many Jewish hospitals have large numbers of Muslim patients, which is actually a good match at times. Issues about dietary laws, end of life, and discreet dress tend to be similar.

What I would really like to see are people with strong religious convictions realizing that their convictions are just their own and it is not their place to force their beliefs on anyone else. I'm really appalled by some of the things I'm reading.

Thank- you!! I was beginning to think I was the only person who thought this!!

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