The Right to Die with Dignity- MD assisted suicide

[SL2014]

With the recent ruling in New Mexico to allow physician assisted suicide for the mentally competent terminally ill, it made me wonder current views on physician assisted suicide. I found a topic on this from 2007, but a lot changes in 7 years.

I personally believe that every person has the fundamental right to choose if they want to die. As a nurse I would refuse to administer the medication but that is because I don't want to be responsible. As a future NP I would also refuse to prescribe it (for one because I think that's way out of an NP's scope) because I would not want the moral liability.

As far as suicide being a sin: What is a "sin" is determined by each individual person, and is between them and G-d. No one should be forced to suffer.

I wish there was a way to make it available to the incompetent also, patients who are in a persistent vegetative state or severely debilitated... I think PAS is much more humane than pulling someone's G-Tube and letting them starve to death... But that's just me.

What do you think?

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

How would they be "dragging" someone else into their decision? "Dragging" implies force... How could someone force a provider assist them in suicide? They can't. Every provider has the right to treat or not treat whoever they want... The provider would be choosing to treat them, not be "dragged" in. Also, I suggest you update your allnurses bio because it says that you specialize in ICU/CCU.

First, while some providers have the right to choose who they treat, others do not. They have to treat whoever is in front of them. Nurses rarely have the right to choose who they treat. Or do you honestly believe that the providers would be the one giving the lethal injections?

My allnurses bio is correct. I specialize in ICU/CCU. I worked in oncology and hematology for five years, but currently I do not.

[fetch, BSN, RN]

I HIGHLY disagree with some of these posts -- but definitely enjoyed reading such a civil discourse about a very divisive topic. Kudos to everyone who posted to share your POV, it benefits us all to hear from the "other side" on difficult issues, and I appreciate it very much.

First, while some providers have the right to choose who they treat, others do not. They have to treat whoever is in front of them. Nurses rarely have the right to choose who they treat. Or do you honestly believe that the providers would be the one giving the lethal injections?

Wouldn't PAS fall into the same sort of situation as abortion? So nurses who oppose abortion can work in other specialties, or with a OB/GYN who does not perform abortions, etc. If they are personally opposed to performing that task, then they should not seek employment somewhere that would require it of them.

My understanding was that PAS was that type of specialized event, only available in hospice care settings, and not something that would routinely occur on a med/surg floor for example.

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

. If they are personally opposed to performing that task, then they should not seek employment somewhere that would require it of them.

My understanding was that PAS was that type of specialized event, only available in hospice care settings, and not something that would routinely occur on a med/surg floor for example.

I can also see it happening in ICUs where a patient just is not recovering, will never recover, but we have already withdrawn the pressors, the ventilator, etc. And on hematology and oncology units. If part of the law were that it would only happen in hospice care settings, then you would be right. Nurses who don't agree with it could avoid it. I'm just not sure that would happen.

[SL2014]

First, while some providers have the right to choose who they treat, others do not. They have to treat whoever is in front of them. Nurses rarely have the right to choose who they treat. Or do you honestly believe that the providers would be the one giving the lethal injections?

My allnurses bio is correct. I specialize in ICU/CCU. I worked in oncology and hematology for five years, but currently I do not.

Nurses ABSOLUTELY have the right to choose who they treat. If any nurse finds something morally incomprehensible they have the right to not treat the patient. Same with CNAs, doctors and anyone else. I have seen nurses refuse to treat prisoners, convicted child molesters and one nurse once refused to treat a racist family. We all have the right to choose.

And yes, I do believe that the providers would be the only ones administering the "lethal injections" (which by the way is not how PAS is done). Why not? They are the only ones who place ET tubes, to bronchs and a bunch of other procedures.

I just think it is completely personal decision. If you are against someone choosing to end their life then don't participate.

If Bob wants to die and Dr. Smith believes that he is doing the best thing for Bob and wants to assist him in dying, why not? How does that negatively impact you personally?

[SL2014]

I HIGHLY disagree with some of these posts -- but definitely enjoyed reading such a civil discourse about a very divisive topic. Kudos to everyone who posted to share your POV, it benefits us all to hear from the "other side" on difficult issues, and I appreciate it very much.

Wouldn't PAS fall into the same sort of situation as abortion? So nurses who oppose abortion can work in other specialties, or with a OB/GYN who does not perform abortions, etc. If they are personally opposed to performing that task, then they should not seek employment somewhere that would require it of them.

My understanding was that PAS was that type of specialized event, only available in hospice care settings, and not something that would routinely occur on a med/surg floor for example.

I totally agree with everything you have said. I am glad that everyone has been expressing their opinions, different perspectives are SO valuable.

I also would think that PAS would fall into the same category as abortion.

PAS in Oregon is a take home prescription that the person does at their home. I think that this is a good thing because the person is self administering so that the death doesn't have to be on someone else's conscience but I also see how this could pose a safety risk... being used by someone other than the patient or ON someone other than the patient. But there are risks with everything.

I think PAS would be a great thing to initiate in hospice. It makes sense that you would have end of life nurses and doctors working with the patients who want to utilize PAS. The only problem is that hospice isn't really a "setting" its more of a state of mind (j/k). But seriously, patients can be on hospice in ICU or a SNF or at home, so it's not like it would be invisible to nurses "against" PAS.

I'd think the best way would be to have physicians that specialize in PAS and if the patient (or family if you agree with incompetent or vegetative patients having the right to PAS) verbalizes the desire to utilize PAS, they are referred to said MD, then that MD chooses whether or not to proceed with PAS. Then if that patient is competent, the patient self administers or if the patient is incompetent (again, if you agree with this stance) then the MD will administer.

[imintrouble, BSN, RN]

Physician assisted suicide is euthanasia.

That said, I believe in a patient's right to die with dignity, but I disagree that they have a right to involve another in this decision or this process. There wasn't an answer that matched that in your poll.

There are a thousand different ways for a human being to end their own suffering. Most of them can be accomplished without the assistance of another person. I disagree with the idea that society has to place it's stamp of approval on that action, by making it legal.

I find it curious that so many people consider assisted suicide ok, but don't want to be involved.

I work with a young nurse who supports AS. Then they pushed the dose of Morphine they thought ended the life of their DNR pts life. The anguish on that nurse's face was painful to see. Apparently there is a difference between theory and reality.

[caroladybelle, BSN, RN]

I find it curious that so many people consider assisted suicide ok but don't want to be involved. .[/quote']

Really? I support gay marriage but that doesn't mean that I want to marry one. I believe that women should have the right to safe legal abortion by an agreeable provider, but would refuse to have or assist with one. I believe I'm the right to defend one's life with a gun, but doubt that I would kill someone even if my life was threatened.

Supporting someone else's personal rights does not mean necessarily liking that right or being required to participate in it.

[brithoover]

Nurses ABSOLUTELY have the right to choose who they treat. If any nurse finds something morally incomprehensible they have the right to not treat the patient. Same with CNAs doctors and anyone else. I have seen nurses refuse to treat prisoners, convicted child molesters and one nurse once refused to treat a racist family. We all have the right to choose. And yes, I do believe that the providers would be the only ones administering the "lethal injections" (which by the way is not how PAS is done). Why not? They are the only ones who place ET tubes, to bronchs and a bunch of other procedures. I just think it is completely personal decision. If you are against someone choosing to end their life then don't participate. If Bob wants to die and Dr. Smith believes that he is doing the best thing for Bob and wants to assist him in dying, why not? How does that negatively impact you personally?[/quote']

100% agree

[imintrouble, BSN, RN]

Really?

Supporting someone else's personal rights does not mean necessarily liking that right or being required to participate in it.[/quote

I'm not arguing against someone's personal right to kill themselves. I'm opposed to the idea of it being legal to ASSIST in that death.

The "assist" guarantees that someone else will be required to participate.

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

Let's try to introduce some facts here. PAS is a legal option in Oregon but rarely selected by patients as an option. The patient has to fill the prescription for the lethal dose of barbiturate. When death is requested, the MD comes to the house (don't know if it is done in hospital setting ), mixes the capsules in liquid and gives it to the patient to ingest. The patient holds the glass himself. Coma ensues almost instantly. My only problem with this is that the stuff is a thick, foul-tasting glog. I wish the patient had something more pleasant tasting cocktail , but it is infinitely more humane than having to shoot or hang yourself. Don't we all want to die in our own beds surrounded by loved ones who want to be there and our loving pets? Can't think of a better way to die. Couldn't happen without the assistance of MD to write prescription and properly prepare our last cocktail.

[LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN]

Thanks for the information, subee.

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

Really?

Supporting someone else's personal rights does not mean necessarily liking that right or being required to participate in it.[/quote

I'm not arguing against someone's personal right to kill themselves. I'm opposed to the idea of it being legal to ASSIST in that death.

The "assist" guarantees that someone else will be required to participate.

YES! What she said!