The "bully" nurse

SmilingBluEyes · Oct 5, 2005

http://www.bullyonline.org

lots of good info regarding all kinds of bullying, from the workplace, to the schools, to home.

rhinojogger · Oct 5, 2005

As a new nurse, I got a job on an SICU and felt fortunate to be there. However, the hospital policy was that all new hire nurses were to make their first attempt at the NCLEX within 90 days. My supervisor told me she wanted me to have my NCLEX scheduled within 2 weeks and wanted me to have taken it within 30 days, even though the hospital allowed me 90. She came up to me about a week later and asked me if I had scheduled to take it and I said no. She started yelling and screaming at me. That was the first of several bad experiences. Needless to say, that job did not last long. I passed my NCLEX with flying colors, but did not seek employment for about a month after my "bad" experience. I then got a job with an Emergency Dept. in Monroe, Michigan. I got the flu, had a temp of 103 something for about 3 days, had a chest x-ray, a levequin pack, Dr's office reciept, but had to call in sick on a weekend I was scheduled to work. Keep in mind I was new there and had a preceptor. But when I came back to work, the supervisor called me a liar for calling in sick, and ranted and raved for a while. The topic also came up that I am in the Ohio Air National Guard. (We go to war and help hurricane victims, etc.), but an employer is required by federal law to allow a guard member to be off for their once a month guard drills. Well, she informed me that if the schedule called for me to work on my guard drill weekend, that I would just have to find my own coverage so I could serve my country and state. Forget the federal law.I thought about contacting my senator, but two days later I decided to quit that job. That was this last spring, I have not been back to work as a nurse since and think that I made a bad choice in selecting nursing. I think the way some nurse managers get selected is that a person might be a very good nurse, work very hard, and when a management position comes open, they say that what's its name is a good nurse, let's make them the new manager. Well, a good nurse does not necessarily make a good manager and I think this is where frustration and bullying and intimidation come in. Just as new nurses need precepting and mentoring, new nurse managers should also be given guidance, preceptoring, and mentoring to become good managers. They just don't become one overnight. Another thing...it seems that nurses have long wanted to be treated more professionaly than they have been. If we are always cat fighting, bitching, whining, and moaning, eating our young, and generally acting like children, and other professionals see this behavior, then how can we ever expect to be treated and recognized as professionals? Others just laugh at us! We are not just butt wipers, and the ones who bring the soda or a snack, and even though we care about and for our patients, others (patients and the public) should know (like we do) that nursing has a very math and science based foundation.

I don't know if part of my experiences happened because I am a red-headed 53 y/o male and a big guy. I know some nurses want males in the workplace and I think others don't. I think I may have intimidated some of the nurse managers and they just jumped on me to show me who was the boss? I know I am frustrated about all of this and I may not seek employment as a nurse again. I graduated near the top of my class in May of 2004, but I feel I am starting to lose what I have learned because I have not worked as a nurse for about 6 months. I guess I am starting to ramble, but would appreciate any feedback one might have to offer. Feel free to send comments to PM box.

Mulan · Oct 5, 2005

rhinojogger, try again, maybe the third time will be the charm.

I have seen this every where I have worked, over many years.

The national guard thing I wouldn't let them get away with, I would report it to the appropriate authority.

Good luck!

Aquamarine · Oct 5, 2005

That was right on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have a saying, "Nurses eat their young" This is what I tell all new nurses. The bully nurse to me is defined as the older nurse, not in age but in experience, who tests your knowledge about your patients by requiring an "anal" and exausting report on each patient. To have yourself ignored as he, she, flips through the chart as you speak, or reviews the assessment for a mundane insignificant detail that has no bearing on the patients present condition. Their endless questions and complaints about what did or didn't get accomplished during your busy understaffed shift. This is an attempt at intimidation and in my opinion is determental to new nurse's job satisfaction. Remember we are a team and it is a 24 hour job. As a new nurse 9 years ago, I was repeatedly drilled until I could take it no more and faught back. But unfortunately some of my class mates did not ,and thus quit the floor. Nurse's don't eat your young, our job is stressful enough without this going on. Be a mentor instead, instruction not destruction. Hint for all new nurses, the "bully" nurse doesn't respond well likewise and they usually will leave you alone if you give it back to them.

Daye · Oct 5, 2005

The experienced nurse who who mistreats a new graduate/student with "hit and run" comments :icon_roll

Hi, I was wondering if people could help me with a project that I was working on for one of my classes. We have heard nurses complaining about being "bullied" but I'm not sure what that means to different nurses. So, in your oppion, what makes a "bully nurse?"

Aquamarine · Oct 5, 2005

Hi...First of all I have said this a million times....I would never let someone on my same level be unfair to me, talk down to me, in otherwords be abusive to me in any way shape of form. Did you say your supervisor was god? Had reall wings, a halo, wore a white robe and had kinds of a glow around her? hmm? I don't think you said this so I am assuming she was on your level...being a human and all. Maybe she had a different title but basically she was not a God by far. Therefore she had little right changing the hospital policy, the next supervisor the same applies. Just because they don't have the staff to cover should someone get ill and has proof...you as a human can get ill, expecially in the beginning times of being a nurse and building up your immunity through exposure. Second of all...why don't you stick up for yourself and when she denied you time off to do your government responsibility...you should have gotten her held to the line...fined, whatever and you could have done that. That is your responsibility as a peson to stick up for what your rights are. Now I know you can win the battle and lose the war....but you could have won the battle and quit the war before it begun. That is what I would have done, I would have held her to some rules and regs bigger than her power...namely the government.

I would not let that or those two very poor examples discourage you from being a nurse. Most jobs orient you to the nursing job. I learned more from my training than I ever did in school anyhow. Main thing is you have your RN. Maybe starting out in a nursing home, getting used to the meds, you will pass enough of them there, and the patient needs will bring you up to par to then go on to bigger and better things. Sub-acute rehab would be excellent, the people are more functional but an RN is going to be mostly supervising. I don't think you piced the wrong profession, people like that are in every single profession. They are not supreme being just because they demand to be treated that way. You are not a bad person because they wanted you to feel that way.

Another thought. In my local nursing newspaper they have review classes for nurses that have been out of the profession for many years...that may be a thought to get your confidence up to par.

Another thought again. They have videos that you can buy that show nursing skills.

Subscribe to some nursing professional magazines, join any local nursing organizations...you will find your nitch I am sure. You will always have a guy hater, you will always see little spats amonst nurses...just stay positive. You can do it. Nancy K

As a new nurse, I got a job on an SICU and felt fortunate to be there. However, the hospital policy was that all new hire nurses were to make their first attempt at the NCLEX within 90 days. My supervisor told me she wanted me to have my NCLEX scheduled within 2 weeks and wanted me to have taken it within 30 days, even though the hospital allowed me 90. She came up to me about a week later and asked me if I had scheduled to take it and I said no. She started yelling and screaming at me. That was the first of several bad experiences. Needless to say, that job did not last long. I passed my NCLEX with flying colors, but did not seek employment for about a month after my "bad" experience. I then got a job with an Emergency Dept. in Monroe, Michigan. I got the flu, had a temp of 103 something for about 3 days, had a chest x-ray, a levequin pack, Dr's office reciept, but had to call in sick on a weekend I was scheduled to work. Keep in mind I was new there and had a preceptor. But when I came back to work, the supervisor called me a liar for calling in sick, and ranted and raved for a while. The topic also came up that I am in the Ohio Air National Guard. (We go to war and help hurricane victims, etc.), but an employer is required by federal law to allow a guard member to be off for their once a month guard drills. Well, she informed me that if the schedule called for me to work on my guard drill weekend, that I would just have to find my own coverage so I could serve my country and state. Forget the federal law.I thought about contacting my senator, but two days later I decided to quit that job. That was this last spring, I have not been back to work as a nurse since and think that I made a bad choice in selecting nursing. I think the way some nurse managers get selected is that a person might be a very good nurse, work very hard, and when a management position comes open, they say that what's its name is a good nurse, let's make them the new manager. Well, a good nurse does not necessarily make a good manager and I think this is where frustration and bullying and intimidation come in. Just as new nurses need precepting and mentoring, new nurse managers should also be given guidance, preceptoring, and mentoring to become good managers. They just don't become one overnight. Another thing...it seems that nurses have long wanted to be treated more professionaly than they have been. If we are always cat fighting, bitching, whining, and moaning, eating our young, and generally acting like children, and other professionals see this behavior, then how can we ever expect to be treated and recognized as professionals? Others just laugh at us! We are not just butt wipers, and the ones who bring the soda or a snack, and even though we care about and for our patients, others (patients and the public) should know (like we do) that nursing has a very math and science based foundation.
I don't know if part of my experiences happened because I am a red-headed 53 y/o male and a big guy. I know some nurses want males in the workplace and I think others don't. I think I may have intimidated some of the nurse managers and they just jumped on me to show me who was the boss? I know I am frustrated about all of this and I may not seek employment as a nurse again. I graduated near the top of my class in May of 2004, but I feel I am starting to lose what I have learned because I have not worked as a nurse for about 6 months. I guess I am starting to ramble, but would appreciate any feedback one might have to offer. Feel free to send comments to PM box.

rhinojogger · Oct 5, 2005

Hi Nancy K,

Thanks for your comments and encouragement!

Bill H (rhinojogger)

Gennaver, MSN · Oct 5, 2005

...A CNA or a unit secretary can be a bully just as well as an RN. You are correct that bullys can ignore you, ask endless intimidating questions and complain about your performance, but these are only outward manifestations of the true heart of this beast who really has an ulterior motive of seeing herself or himself as being better than everybody else. Bullys are inherently mean, negative people who want to have power over everyone else and will not stop at using these kinds of nasty little behaviors to accomplish this. Bullys can be found in all walks of life, not just nursing.

Daytonite,

I want to thank you for being so clear on this.

Something else I have discovered about bullies, (as a former bully target for eyars) is that they are drawn to smudge people that are kind, respectable, compassionate, genuine and sincere.

I suspect that genuinely good people trigger the bullies insecurities.

Gennaver

p.s. have learned myself that a bully, is a bully regardless of their underlying issues, (however sad those issues may be) and no amount of understanding or rationalizing or talking or engaging with them will do anything more than 'feed' their attention seeking behavior

night owl · Oct 5, 2005

Hi, I was wondering if people could help me with a project that I was working on for one of my classes. We have heard nurses complaining about being "bullied" but I'm not sure what that means to different nurses. So, in your oppion, what makes a "bully nurse?"

You know Mikey, I could never understand this bullying thing. :stone Since it is considered violence in the workplace now a days, a lot of it has stopped at my facility. I haven't seen any bullying for quite a long time. All the nurses and CNA's who were the bullies have either retired or found other places of employment. Like I said I could never understand the bullying thing and especially to new staff members. I always felt bad for the newbies because I knew the bullies would eventually get them. I always tried to take them aside and give them a pep talk, but they always broke down and said, "I don't think I can take much more of this." We need to welcome them with open arms and treat them with respect and kindness in order for them to remain for a long time. It is possible.

Gennaver, MSN · Oct 5, 2005

http://www.bullyonline.org
lots of good info regarding all kinds of bullying, from the workplace, to the schools, to home.

Hello SmilingBluEyes,

This site helped me a lot in my last 'bully situation'. Now that I have stepped back from the situation and matured a few more years I am very firm in my desire to just not 'feed' the bullies.

:)

They are not harmless-not at all.

In their desire to inflate their own egos or needs they will step over others without conscience. Matter of fact, I think there is a book titled, "Without Consicence" but I do not know who it is by.

Whenever I think of a bully I now think that I would not want them to have the authority to make another person feel bad, for thier own pleasure. I would not want to 'tolerate' bullying because wrong is wrong and someone is going to get hurt, (emotional/verbal abuse is hurtful).

I also know that they only have the power that we 'give' them.

I do not want to 'give' a bully any power either. However, I am very certain that they will always keep checking for it.

Bullies and Narcissists, (same thing?) are very unpleasant to have to work with.

Gennaver

gwenith, BSN, RN · Oct 5, 2005

One of the ways to deal with bullies is to find a "Clinical Colleague" - usually someone within your own field of practice but outside your workplace - with whom you can speak freely.

Bullies like to nitpick claiming it is "the best for the patient" e.g. - "All ICU patients must have 2nd hourly eye care" and then they jump on anyone giving eye care even 15 minutes late.

Remember it is about setting up impossible standards, micromanaging and actively looking for faults.

But just as importantly DO NOT FALL INTO THE VICTIM ROLE

Once bullied you can end up being the target of serial bullying because you have never learnt how to deal with it or, because you are not made that way, find it difficult to deal with.

A lot of people (me included) have difficulty with confrontation and cannot or will not tell a bully to go @#$# themselves - a response that SHOULD be given at the earliest possible time. Why? Because MOST bullies when confronted back off. I find it difficult to take someone aside and say "Listen I am not your chew toy - if you want to keep treating me like one I will start documenting everything coming out of your mouth."

It is far, far more difficult though, when there is cohort bullying or mobbing - then your only hope is to get out.

Kelly_the_Great · Oct 6, 2005

http://www.bullyonline.org
lots of good info regarding all kinds of bullying, from the workplace, to the schools, to home.

http://www.breakingranks.net/

Hey SmilingBluEyes,

You always provide us with such great resources!

I wondered if you had ever been exposed to the theory of "rankism"? It is an aspect of bullying and I think it is very closely associated to a lot of the problems we see in nursing. Whether it be the difference of "ranks" in degrees/levels of education/training (LPN, ADN, BSN, MSN, PhD, special this or that) or years in experience.

Check out the site when you get a chance and let me know what you think :)