The Nursing School to Welfare Pipeline

[panurse9999]

I am sure many people have heard of the social issue/ cause "school to prison pipeline" that many civic groups are trying to eradicate. I am here to draw attention to a similar related problem , the college to welfare pipeline.

Due to an intricate , intimate, and covert relationship between big government politicos, higher education, Bureau of Occupational affairs, and the Federal/ State Department of labor, we have a serious student debt problem in the nursing field that is only going to get worse. Nurses need to wake up and take note of the LPN to RN hoax, and the RN-BSN hoax. These are all well publicized , propaganda driven falsities that are crushing nurses into debt driven higher education requirements. These propaganda driven requirements brainwash nurses into believing that without the extra education, they will not be employed.

And to a certain degree, they are correct, but its important for nurses to see the pitfall, before taking the dive. There is little to no difference in responsibility or pay rate from LPN to RN, and most RNs are taking the lower wage, just to have a job. There is zero difference in job responsibility or pay from RN to BSN, but the dollars spent to get there are substantial. The RN to BSN pipeline is a grotesque narrative that is being sung, for the sole purpose of enriching nursing schools. The NCLEX exam is identical for RNs and BSNs, the scope of practice is identical, and so are all the pay rates. A staff nurse is a staff nurse, is a staff nurse, too.

So why go for your BSN? Its because the hospitals and other various 24/ 7 institutional care providers say so. They have all built a united wall against the ADN RN. We are becoming an extinct species, because no one will hire us. Is the BSN a job guarantee? Of course not. Is any higher education a job guarantee? Nope. Big government politicos want student debt to skyrocket , so that they can fly in and save everyone with free bailouts, loan forgiveness, and thousands of more votes on election day.

May the buyer beware, until that utopia comes to fruition. In the meantime, take a serious look inward into the pitfalls, tricks and traps of higher education in the nursing field. The powers that be want you to keep jumping hurdles , spending more and more money, hoping to get hired, and falling deeper and deeper into debt, during the process. The higher you jump, the more you spend, and the less you earn. For many nurses who fell for these schemes, the financial devastation has been both swift and severe.

[panurse9999]

1 minute ago, LibraSunCNM said:

Really? You don't blame "schools" that deliberately lie about their credentials, their graduates' NCLEX pass rates and ability to get hired after graduation, and who prey on immigrants and other vulnerable groups who, by definition, have little familiarity with higher education and who get lured in with false promises? I sure do.

I find it ironic that the State of PA limits licenses for MDs to assure that there are never too many. This way, massive salaries continue. But they fail to do this for other licensed professions, such as nursing, law, cosmetology, and others. SO what winds up happening is that Higher Education is permissibly defrauding everyone who enters these programs, knowing for a fact that the chance of landing a job within 3 months of graduation is zero to none, without connections.

[NurseBlaq]

They were saying BSN was going to be new entry level nursing back when I was in high school. Several years later, still the same. LPN/LVN, ADN, etc schools still exist. However, I will say some facilities use LPN/LVN in lieu of CNAs so they can have better coverage in case of emergency or call out.

I personally don't care what someone's educational level is as long as they're providing quality care to patients.

I also want to add the surplus depends on your state because there are states with severe shortages. I do agree with needing experience before moving on to NP status. There are people who are moving through the educational levels while never experiencing actual nursing outside of clinicals. That's a problem, especially if nursing building upon experience with the different levels of education.

Edited to add: We're discussing nursing, I get that. However, bear in mind this phenomena is happening in just about every career field. The economy isn't doing as good as we're being led to believe but that's another subject for another thread.

[panurse9999]

3 minutes ago, NurseBlaq said:

They were saying BSN was going to be new entry level nursing back when I was in high school. Several years later, still the same. LPN/LVN, ADN, etc schools still exist. However, I will say some facilities use LPN/LVN in lieu of CNAs so they can have better coverage in case of emergency or call out.

I personally don't care what someone's educational level is as long as they're providing quality care to patients.

I also want to add the surplus depends on your state because there are states with severe shortages. I do agree with needing experience before moving on to NP status. There are people who are moving through the educational levels while never experiencing actual nursing outside of clinicals. That's a problem, especially if nursing building upon experience with the different levels of education.

Edited to add: We're discussing nursing, I get that. However, bear in mind this phenomena is happening in just about every career field. The economy isn't doing as good as we're being led to believe but that's another subject for another thread.

very true. I have seen lawyers appointed or elected to be judges, who have never tried a case, or even represented a client, but had the right connections. I have also seen LPNs who have opted away from LTC, who are now working in a hospital as an aide for $13.00/ hr. I have also seen CRNPs unable to find any work, and take jobs as a staff RN/ LPN just to have income.

[llg, PhD, RN]

1 hour ago, LibraSunCNM said:

Really? You don't blame "schools" that deliberately lie about their credentials, their graduates' NCLEX pass rates and ability to get hired after graduation, and who prey on immigrants and other vulnerable groups who, by definition, have little familiarity with higher education and who get lured in with false promises? I sure do.

I blame the schools that lie, misrepresent, over-charge, etc.. But that is not all schools. Some schools do not do those things. I don't blame all schools just because some schools are bad -- just as I don't blame all people because some people made poor choices.

[Golden_RN, MSN]

I disagree with SOME of what is being said on this thread. 21 years ago I graduated and there was definitely an RN shortage. Hospitals were giving sign-on bonuses and as new grads we were all offered acute jobs in many specialties. I was given a weekend at a nice hotel just for coming in for an interview. I know this varies throughout the country.

Also, if you are talking about bedside hospital jobs, then I see how doing RN-BSN program may not be worth the investment for everyone. However, for those that want to work outside of the hospital (public health, school health, etc.) a BSN is usually necessary.

I do agree that some schools are predatory but students have to do their part and research their job prospects, the market in their area and know what they're getting into with student debt.

[panurse9999]

11 minutes ago, Golden_RN said:

I disagree with SOME of what is being said on this thread. 21 years ago I graduated and there was definitely an RN shortage. Hospitals were giving sign-on bonuses and as new grads we were all offered acute jobs in many specialties. I was given a weekend at a nice hotel just for coming in for an interview. I know this varies throughout the country.

Also, if you are talking about bedside hospital jobs, then I see how doing RN-BSN program may not be worth the investment for everyone. However, for those that want to work outside of the hospital (public health, school health, etc.) a BSN is usually necessary.

I do agree that some schools are predatory but students have to do their part and research their job prospects, the market in their area and know what they're getting into with student debt.

Hospitals and nursing homes were doing the same thing then, that they continue to do to this day. ADVERTISE jobs with sign on bonuses, but if you could find me even one nurse who actually collected the bonus, I would be surprised. This is part of the false propaganda that is continuing to brainwash people into thinking there is a shortage of nurses. I see these straight up fake ads all the time.

[TheMoonisMyLantern, ADN, LPN, RN]

Most for profit schools prey on individuals from lower income backgrounds making seductive claims of "You'll always have a job! Come get an ADN for $50,000!" just so they can cash in the pell grant money and get these folks trapped in loans for the rest of their lives. I agree that students must become more savy with higher education but there is a LOT of bad advice out there. For example, when I was in high school I was able to do an LPN program through the vocational school, at 18 y/o I was a licensed nurse. I was told however since I did that instead of going straight to college I was an "idiot" and would not "amount to anything" (true words spoken to me from a guidance counselor) and that I should instead go to college to pursue a degree in music (I played in an orchestra) . Flash forward and I graduated from a community college ADN program with no student debt and have always been gainfully employed and financially independent.

My point is that had I listened to the advice given to me I would have spent thousands of dollars on a music degree that more likely than not would have left me unemployed and owing a lot of money. My path certainly isn't the path for everyone but it shows just how snowed we've all been by the philosophy of "You have to have a 4 year degree to be anyone." Schools must be held accountable for what they are telling prospective students.

[Golden_RN, MSN]

Just now, panurse9999 said:

Hospitals and nursing homes were doing the same thing then, that they continue to do to this day. ADVERTISE jobs with sign on bonuses, but if you could find me even one nurse who actually collected the bonus, I would be surprised. This is part of the false propaganda that is continuing to brainwash people into thinking there is a shortage of nurses. I see these straight up fake ads all the time.

It was not propaganda. I collected a weekend at a nice hotel from one employer and a sign-on bonus at another.

I do not see hospitals in my area advertise this now. I'm in CA.

[klone, MSN, RN]

5 minutes ago, panurse9999 said:

Hospitals and nursing homes were doing the same thing then, that they continue to do to this day. ADVERTISE jobs with sign on bonuses, but if you could find me even one nurse who actually collected the bonus, I would be surprised. This is part of the false propaganda that is continuing to brainwash people into thinking there is a shortage of nurses. I see these straight up fake ads all the time.

I was given a sign-on bonus as a new grad. This was in 2006. My husband was given a sign-on bonus AND relocation bonus as a new grad.

[panurse9999]

1 minute ago, Golden_RN said:

It was not propaganda. I collected a weekend at a nice hotel from one employer and a sign-on bonus at another.

I do not see hospitals in my area advertise this now. I'm in CA.

I'm in PA. The largest hospital system in my area spams the job boards with these ads constantly , with fake bonus propaganda in them, even though they have had a hiring freeze active for the last 2 years straight, and this is well known. They are so hell bent on fishing the job market, for the sole purpose of rolling wages backwards. The starting rate of pay at that hospital has not budged in 20 years. We have nursing schools all over the place, churning out new nurses by the hundreds, because people see these ads all the time, and accept them as true. Its straight up fraud and has to stop. This was how I got suckered into nursing school 22 years ago.

[Golden_RN, MSN]

Just now, panurse9999 said:

I'm in PA. The largest hospital system in my area spams the job boards with these ads constantly , with fake bonus propaganda in them, even though they have had a hiring freeze active for the last 2 years straight, and this is well known. They are so hell bent on fishing the job market, for the sole purpose of rolling wages backwards. The starting rate of pay at that hospital has not budged in 20 years. We have nursing schools all over the place, churning out new nurses by the hundreds, because people see these ads all the time, and accept them as true. Its straight up fraud and has to stop. This was how I got suckered into nursing school 22 years ago.

My area has been saturated with RNs since the recession. I haven't heard of any sign on bonuses in my area in many years.

I still am highly supportive of RNs getting BSNs if it makes sense to them financially. One hospital system being deceptive or being a crappy employer wouldn't stop my support for advancing education. We have been the least educated profession in health care for too long.

[panurse9999]

1 minute ago, Golden_RN said:

My area has been saturated with RNs since the recession. I haven't heard of any sign on bonuses in my area in many years.

I still am highly supportive of RNs getting BSNs if it makes sense to them financially. One hospital system being deceptive or being a crappy employer wouldn't stop my support for advancing education. We have been the least educated profession in health care for too long.

2 year RNs in my area have been completely locked out of the field. Its BSN required all over for hospitals now. LPNs are now being hired as unit managers in LTC, and staff RNs report to them. (yes, I witnessed it) Anesthesia and OR / Surgical Techs have replaced many RN jobs in hospitals here. There is a "surgical tech" degree program now offerred at all the community colleges, which is a 2 year program, and the pay rate is about $18.00/hr. The giant hospital with the hiring freeze forced all RNs to get their BSNs at their own cost or be fired. No pay increase. No difference in scope. No difference in work duties. Just a huge pile of debt, and its driving nurses out of their jobs. Yet its this same hospital placing fake ads with sign on bonuses. It makes me sick.