"The Jesus Factor"

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A collegue of mine in the ICU is soon moving to Home Health for several reasons, both personal and otherwise. At the nurses station the other day, she and one of the doctors were talking, and she mentioned to him, regarding one of his patients, that "The Jesus factor was all squared away". This co-worker is a very active Christian and so is the MD in question. I asked her what that meant and she said that she liked to make sure where people were going when they die. She said that that was one reason why she wanted to do home health and hospice, was to help people find Jesus before they die.

She is an awesome, awesome nurse, but I was always thought that this is not ethical. I would never discuss religion with a patient unless they wanted to and I don't think it's correct to try to convert them. She's basically going to be evangelizing her Home Health patients. I find that disturbing.

oh crap. the website ate my response. i will try to craft another one when I wake up in the morning.

Thank you all for a very enlightening discussion

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Specializes in Med-Surg.
Good grief you people. . . . .this is a long thread and I'm only on page 28 . . . . I'm giving up for now (it is 2:15 a.m.).

But I have to give you all kudos for a very interesting and respectful discussion.:bow:

steph

I missed you. I kept saying too bad StevieLynn isn't here to participate, she loves this kind of stuff.":lol2:

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I missed you. I kept saying too bad StevieLynn isn't here to participate, she loves this kind of stuff.":lol2:

Tweety knows me. . . . . .;)

steph

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Specializes in LTC, assisted living, med-surg, psych.

Yes, it's good to have Steph back!!:p:D:monkeydance:

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Specializes in critical care; community health; psych.

A little sensitivity is in order at the bedside. Sometmes it requires intuition. What might be appropriate in one case isn't in another. What we know about our patient, the family and the relationship we have built all have a bearing on what I think will bring comfort at EOL. This includes discussion about the hereafter. It's no time to be worrying about being politically correct. I want my EOL nurse to be bold enough to walk the walk with me as far as possible. Not to convert me but to comfort me. If you've got good intuition, use it. The deathbed journey is like no other. Give'em what they need.

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Specializes in Alzheimer's, Geriatrics, Chem. Dep..

I don't know if I will ever get thru this thread, LOL! But did want to respond to what I've read thus far.

It's neat that it came up because I haven't really thought about this since I become Born Again, and I've also not been nursing since that time ... so...

"The Jesus Factor" expression really caught me off guard, LOLOL! (still laughing) ... and someone said it was like that nurse had a check-off sheet - pain, check... dressing, check... salvation, check... -- yep, that's how it looked to me. Now, if these two Christians were merely sharing the fact that the pt. was saved, and happy about it, that's one thing. But to make the salvation of every patient their primary goal - it's kinda bizarre.

I am more one of those who will let the Holy Spirit guide me when I witness to someone. For example, I was at the Dr's office for my HTN Friday and there was a kid sitting across from me (about 25) who had the words "The Word" on his t-shirt. I asked what it meant, thinking it was referring to the Bible, but he said no, it was a wrestling term, and he believed that God was against him. Just started spouting out what had happened to him so far in his life, and, most recently, polycythemia. He was told that he would not live past a certain period of time and voila, he is still here. But he strongly believes God hates him. He also admitted to a suicide attempt.

Well, there was my door and I took it. I certainly would have left him be if he had objected to the direction the conversation had taken - but he seemed to want to hear, and talk about, what I was saying. Now here was a willing ear, and heart -

As far as when I used to work as a nurse, I would simply ask, "Where are you at with the God thing?" or something appropriate to their age, our rapport, etc. Casual yet inviting them to talk. Some would say they were "all set", some would say they were confused, some would want to get more clear about it. I'd go by what the pt. said.

Most would have SOMEthing to say about their spiritual needs. Depending on what they said, I would often ask them if they had any unfinished business with family or with God, etc. And if they did, I would support their need to talk about it, or suggest they contact that family member to resolve the issue or say goodbye ... Many WOULD be very open to having me pray with them or help them ask God for forgiveness, if it seemed appropriate. I would not and still would not push anyone to the point of causing fear or intimidation.

I do want to say very clearly though that, according to my faith, no one can force another person to be "saved". It is a heart thing, and without that, it's just words. But regardless - it is an invasion of patients' rights to insist either way. And if anyone went too far they SHOULD be reported, at least to the Nurse manager. It's harassment, just like any other harassment, and should be dealt with as such.

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Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.

As far as when I used to work as a nurse, I would simply ask, "Where are you at with the God thing?" or something appropriate to their age, our rapport, etc. Casual yet inviting them to talk. Some would say they were "all set", some would say they were confused, some would want to get more clear about it. I'd go by what the pt. said.

Most would have SOMEthing to say about their spiritual needs. Depending on what they said, I would often ask them if they had any unfinished business with family or with God, etc. And if they did, I would support their need to talk about it, or suggest they contact that family member to resolve the issue or say goodbye ... Many WOULD be very open to having me pray with them or help them ask God for forgiveness, if it seemed appropriate. I would not and still would not push anyone to the point of causing fear or intimidation.

I do want to say very clearly though that, according to my faith, no one can force another person to be "saved". It is a heart thing, and without that, it's just words. But regardless - it is an invasion of patients' rights to insist either way. And if anyone went too far they SHOULD be reported, at least to the Nurse manager. It's harassment, just like any other harassment, and should be dealt with as such.

Just posing a question, did you initiate the conversation asking the patient where he was with 'the God thing'? I am not trying to challenge you, but wish to inquire; why ask if not approached. However, I do understand the rest of your post that it should not be forced.

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Specializes in Alzheimer's, Geriatrics, Chem. Dep..
Just posing a question, did you initiate the conversation asking the patient where he was with 'the God thing'? I am not trying to challenge you, but wish to inquire; why ask if not approached. However, I do understand the rest of your post that it should not be forced.

I ask when not approached because sometimes no one will ask, and I find that often people welcome such a question.

I don't always use the word "God" but it is my aim to find out what their spiritual needs are. I will often go by guidance of the Holy Spirit (on how/what to say), or evidence such as others mentioned (the charts, items in the room, etc.).

Most admission forms, too, will have a place where will address spiritual needs, ie "what is your religion, if any?", and "do you wish a visit from a chaplain, Priest, pastor, etc.?"

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Hi..

The bible also states, it is not up to us, (humans) to decide what faith is correct.

However, please realize that if a patient is not a Christian, they probably don't care if the Bible says that their religion is the correct one or not.:lol2:

Seriously, though. I am not Christian. I did, however take a couple classes at university that dealt with the major world religions and studied their texts fairly extensively, though it was several years ago. Lots of religions think that their path is the only path. Logically, they can't all be right. (I also had to take logic a long time ago. *grin*)

What if they are all wrong?

That is why I'm okay with believing that any path can be a good path.

I understand that others may not agree with that view.

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Specializes in Internal Medicine,Surgery, Wound Care.
However, please realize that if a patient is not a Christian, they probably don't care if the Bible says that their religion is the correct one or not.:lol2:

Seriously, though. I am not Christian. I did, however take a couple classes at university that dealt with the major world religions and studied their texts fairly extensively, though it was several years ago. Lots of religions think that their path is the only path. Logically, they can't all be right. (I also had to take logic a long time ago. *grin*)

What if they are all wrong?

That is why I'm okay with believing that any path can be a good path.

I understand that others may not agree with that view.

Hi... you are correct and I'm sure you are more knowledgeable than I am due to your studies. I really doesn't bother me one way or another about someone's faith. But after listening to the posts here, I just want to be careful not to get in trouble in regards to religion. If someone believes in GOD, Great, if not, no biggie.

I just went to a Nursing home yesterday to volunteer for one day a week till school starts. This is a Methodist run facility. One of the things listed that I might do is read the bible to a resident. Which is fine. As long as I don't preach what I believe, then I guess I'll be within the rules & regulations. I'm working with the activities dept. Should be interesting. I want to get a real feel for the job. Well, I won't be allowed to feed anyone or watch any procedures. But at least I'll learn about Alzheimer's & how to communicate with the residents there.

The bottom line, I guess is, make sure I am the best Nurse I can be. Be sure my patients are smiling to the best of their ability. Pray before I get to work and pray after I leave. I know the job can be stressful and wear you down. I have a lot to learn and will welcome any advise along the way. I just hope & pray I can find a facility that is warm & friendly. There is so much pain in the world and I had a hard life. I'm done with nasty people.

Thanks:balloons:

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Specializes in Med-Surg.

A NOTE FROM YOUR FRIENDLY MODERATOR

I seriously think we've covered all bases here as to how spirituality and patient care relate. I wish we could give it a rest and let this topic go.

However, let's please not use this forum to discuss the Bible, your beliefs and your religion. The owner of the site is very clear that this is a nursing forum.

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Specializes in LTC, Med/Surg, Peds, ICU, Tele.

It does appear that this subject has been discussed from all angles. It's been very interesting. My co-worker is now working in home health, her absence from our unit is felt. She really is a wonderful nurse.

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