"The Jesus Factor"

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A collegue of mine in the ICU is soon moving to Home Health for several reasons, both personal and otherwise. At the nurses station the other day, she and one of the doctors were talking, and she mentioned to him, regarding one of his patients, that "The Jesus factor was all squared away". This co-worker is a very active Christian and so is the MD in question. I asked her what that meant and she said that she liked to make sure where people were going when they die. She said that that was one reason why she wanted to do home health and hospice, was to help people find Jesus before they die.

She is an awesome, awesome nurse, but I was always thought that this is not ethical. I would never discuss religion with a patient unless they wanted to and I don't think it's correct to try to convert them. She's basically going to be evangelizing her Home Health patients. I find that disturbing.

Specializes in LTC, Med/Surg, Peds, ICU, Tele.
;) just for you, tom:

copied from another website. don't know where they got it...

"the pope met with the college of cardinals to discuss a proposal from shimon peres, the former leader of israel. "your holiness," said one of the cardinals, "mr. peres wants to determine whether jews or catholics are superior, by challenging you to a golf match." the pope was greatly disturbed, as he had never held a golf club in his life.

"not to worry," said the cardinal, "we'll call america and talk to jack nicklaus. we'll make him a cardinal, he can play shimon peres... we can't lose!" everyone agreed it was a good idea. the call was made and, of course, jack was honored and agreed to play.

the day after the match, nicklaus reported to the vatican to inform the pope of his success in the match. "i came in second, your holiness," said nicklaus.

"second?!!" exclaimed the surprised pope. "you came in second to shimon peres?!!"

"no," said nicklaus, "second to rabbi woods." :lol2:

:lol2: thank you for this important theological contribution to this important subject. ;)

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I have never understood why it is such a federal case when a Christian ( or other religion) wants to talk about Jesus. He's obviously important to this woman. I mean no one would get bent out of shape if she believed yoga would make someone's life better and told all her patients how they could start a yoga regimine, or if she was an avid environmentalist and encouraged her pts to go to an Earth day rally. As long as she has her pts permission to talk to them about Jesus, what's the big deal?

As a former fundamentalist/evangelical Christian myself, I would say that often times when people want to "talk about Jesus", some may percieve that as an attempt to hustle up a lot of guilt and control over the potential convert in question.

Of course I'm not saying that that is in fact the actual intent behind a Christian wanting to "talk about Jesus", but that is sometimes how it's percieved, for better or for worse.

That generally doesn't tend to be the case with things like, as you mention, yoga.

Also, I have found that many elderly people are already well set in their ways as far as their religious and philosophical views go, and sometimes an attempt to persuade them otherwise can easily backfire.

I think that if a patient makes it clear that he/she is interested in discussing spiritual matters, I would certainly not hesitant to do so, if only very casually. (Of course, I work as an EKG tech - not an RN yet; only a student. So I don't know what all the exact boundaries on this topic for RNs actually encompass). However, with my own job I am usually too busy moving from one patient to the next to talk at length about anything anyway. Obviously I suppose at the very least one always can refer a patient to a spiritual leader from a church or other religious group.

Anyway, this is clearly a sensitive topic, as evidenced by the gazillion replies to this thread.

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Specializes in NICU, Infection Control.
;) Happy to help, jls!
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Specializes in ER, ICU, L&D, OR.
This information encapsulates the problem, it is so well written and pertinant, thanks!!!!!

actually to me, you interpretation is rather obtuse and confusing. Comparing religion to a boundary issue. I fail to see that as an implication here.

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Specializes in Internal Medicine,Surgery, Wound Care.
I'm afraid I must respectfully disagree with you about this. I am not Christian. Therefore, I do not have, nor do I particularly want to have a relationship with Jesus. For the nurse who is taking care of me to bring up that subject with me without my express consent would offend me. When I am at home, I can refuse to allow someone through my front door. Lying in bed in a hospital, I do not have that option.

I am glad that you have faith. Faith is a wonderful thing. However faith comes in many different varieties.

Just because a person chooses to take a different path in their relationship with their deity does not necessarily mean that it is the wrong path (or deity) for them.

Peace.

Hi..

The bible also states, it is not up to us, (humans) to decide what faith is correct.

As I have been reading all these posts. I guess I can see how the Christians, I am one, but do not ever preach, get tied up in conversation. I also don't go to church every Sunday. Christians are taught to preach the word of Jesus. I do not think it is my place in the hospital to preach to a sick person. First of all, I am not certified in bible study. I did not go to school for it, therefore, could not effectively communicate it properly. This is the job of the Pastor, Clergy, Priest, whomever the person is already familiar with.

Of course, if that person does not have a familiar "preacher", the hospital has one on staff.

I am going to try my very best to be a great Nurse. Now that I know this issue, I will stay clear of it. :nono: I do not want to be sued over this issue. There are family members of the patient which whom you can discuss the patient requests of a "preacher". I think this is a smart move. A Nurse is there for many things, religion and preaching is not one of them.

So I agree with the Nurses who know their place and know why they are at work. I do not agree with giving lessons on religion.

Hats off to all of you Nurses that are already out there working hard and doing a great job. I hope to pass all my tests and be able to say in June of 2008 " I PASSED MY BOARDS"!

Hope you all have a nice week!!!

:balloons:

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Specializes in med/surg, geri, ortho, telemetry, psych.

Do you think it is unethical then to pray with a dying patient when they ask you to? I don't think there is anything wrong with that. You are providing them much needed comfort that they are asking for.

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Specializes in Internal Medicine,Surgery, Wound Care.
do you think it is unethical then to pray with a dying patient when they ask you to? i don't think there is anything wrong with that. you are providing them much needed comfort that they are asking for.

no. .. not at all.. if they ask for it... that is different.. but i won't try to quote verses or preach. i will take the cue from him/her.

i don't mind being the last person they see before they die. i would make the last moments peaceful. but god forbid i say the wrong thing. i couldn't live with myself.. and.. mostly for my answer is this forum. i am hearing how horrible some nurses and family members can be. that is the last thing i need is to be written up or fired over a "preaching sermon".

i came into this forum thinking nurses were kinda like angels. i got an ear full on how some nurses are mean and try to get you in trouble on purpose. then there are the family members of the patients. this job already sounds hard and stressful. but i am determined to be a nurse. i am going to find that "special" nursing home that is wonderful. we had one down the block from where i lived in the bronx. what a wonderful place, catholic based. but incredible staff. my grandfather used to take the nuns food shopping because they didn't have a car yet. my grandparents owned an italian ice, custard & pizzeria, plus other grocery items. so maybe this is why i have it in my head about the "angel nurses".

plus really at this point, i have no clue from my own experience what it is to be a nurse. so i'm sure i am going to go thru my own nonsense. and why it is? there aren't a lot of people that are naturally nice & sweet anymore. stress makes people cranky, long hours, mean bosses, high bills due to trying to keep up with the jones. (really another subject)

right now i am going to focus on getting thru the classes and making the grades. i can only hope & pray to god, i am put where i am needed most. i want to learn all i can and find the area in which my patient will benefit from me being their nurse.

hope everyone had a great day today. i hope at least you made one patient smile and brought a little joy to their life.

:balloons:

joann

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Specializes in Med-Surg.
Do you think it is unethical then to pray with a dying patient when they ask you to? I don't think there is anything wrong with that. You are providing them much needed comfort that they are asking for.

Of course not. It's not only ethical but required that we take care of the spiritual needs of our patients.

A nurse that comfortable with praying definitely should pray with patient. Still if the nurse is a Christian and the patient just wants a general prayer the nurse should not take advantage of the patient and use this time to "save" the patient from going to Hell and taking care of the Jesus factor. It still should be about the patient. If a Christian nurse isn't comfortable praying for a non-Christian she should find a chaplain to utilize available resources.

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Specializes in Internal Medicine,Surgery, Wound Care.
Of course not. It's not only ethical but required that we take care of the spiritual needs of our patients.

A nurse that comfortable with praying definitely should pray with patient. Still if the nurse is a Christian and the patient just wants a general prayer the nurse should not take advantage of the patient and use this time to "save" the patient from going to Hell and taking care of the Jesus factor. It still should be about the patient. If a Christian nurse isn't comfortable praying for a non-Christian she should find a chaplain to utilize available resources.

Thanks

I guess that is a better way of putting it.

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when a pt asks if i will pray w/them, i ask if they have a certain/favorite prayer in mind.

this way, there is no room for confusion.

i've been blessed to participate in some incredible rituals.

leslie

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Specializes in med/surg, geri, ortho, telemetry, psych.
Of course not. It's not only ethical but required that we take care of the spiritual needs of our patients.

A nurse that comfortable with praying definitely should pray with patient. Still if the nurse is a Christian and the patient just wants a general prayer the nurse should not take advantage of the patient and use this time to "save" the patient from going to Hell and taking care of the Jesus factor. It still should be about the patient. If a Christian nurse isn't comfortable praying for a non-Christian she should find a chaplain to utilize available resources.

Agreed 100%.

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Good grief you people. . . . .this is a long thread and I'm only on page 28 . . . . I'm giving up for now (it is 2:15 a.m.).

But I have to give you all kudos for a very interesting and respectful discussion.:bow:

steph

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