"The Jesus Factor"

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A collegue of mine in the ICU is soon moving to Home Health for several reasons, both personal and otherwise. At the nurses station the other day, she and one of the doctors were talking, and she mentioned to him, regarding one of his patients, that "The Jesus factor was all squared away". This co-worker is a very active Christian and so is the MD in question. I asked her what that meant and she said that she liked to make sure where people were going when they die. She said that that was one reason why she wanted to do home health and hospice, was to help people find Jesus before they die.

She is an awesome, awesome nurse, but I was always thought that this is not ethical. I would never discuss religion with a patient unless they wanted to and I don't think it's correct to try to convert them. She's basically going to be evangelizing her Home Health patients. I find that disturbing.

Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
But my job isn't to "save" Mr. Jones. My job is to educate Mr. Jones about the course of action recommended by his doctor in order for him to make educated decisions about his treatment.

I had a patient in clinicals one time who had really bad heart disease and diabetes and was in the hospital due to a DVT. We had him on a cardiac and diabetic diet and he refused to eat anything on any of his meal trays. I charted that he ate nothing and asked him if there was something else he preferred, he said no. A few minutes later, his wife came into his room bearing breakfast sandwiches from Wendy's, which he ate about 3 of. At the discretion of the nurse I worked with, I simply went in and explained to my pt why his doctor had prescribed the hospital's diet, the benefits of maintaining that diet, etc. I didn't say "You can't eat Wendy's anymore" because I can't do that -- he has the right to refuse his meal tray. I can't save this guy from another DVT, a heart attack, going to h-e- double hockey sticks, or anything else. All I could do was educate him about the diet so he could make an educated decision about whether or not to follow it.

And before anyone clammers "But I just want to educate my pts about "the Jesus factor" so they can make educated decisions..." I still think it's outside of my role as a nurse to do this. I can certainly do a spiritual assessment as JCAHO requires to identify any spiritual distress, I can use therapeutic communication techniques to allow my patient to speak about their concerns, and I can refer my patient to the appropriate resources (such as the chaplain) if they want.

One of the toughest parts for many people trying therapeutic communication techniques is not talking too much. There are very few times when it is therapeutic to share my own experience with the patient. I should be asking questions of my patient to get them to share their own experience with me, and we can use that information to move forward. To me, this would be like a nurse saying "You seem depressed. I was depressed one time and took Wellbutrin and it really helped! You should try it!" as opposed to "You seem depressed. You may want to consider discussing these feelings with your doctor. There is a wide variety of medications and other treatments available that may help you. Would you like me to have him come talk to you about these options?" Similarly, I feel it is untherapeutic for the nurse to say "You seem concerned about your fate after death. I found Jesus to be my savior, so now I get to go to heaven! You should try it!" as opposed to "You seem concerned about your fate after death. Would you like to discuss these feelings with me, or with the chaplain?"

Now, I can say "Amen" to that!

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That question is part of our admission database, along with other questions for abuse screening. I always tell people who refuse, "If you change your mind about any of these things, your nurse will be happy to help get whatever you need" and I encourage them to feel free to ask questions about anything.

Most of the time by the time they get to the hospital, they have their spiritual ducks in a row, so to speak. They know, much as the respondents on this thread, pretty much what they believe and most are not interested in changing.

Therefore, my best witness method is to walk the walk rather than talk the talk.

I wasn't speaking of the chaplain service to advance the "Jesus Factor", but to address their spiritual needs regardless of the patient's belief system.

At my old hospital where I'd worked for so many years, we explained to new admissions that the chaplain service got a list of all admits, and we'd ask them if they wished to be left off the list, had other arrangements (their own clergy, whatever). This last place I was at made no mention of anything like that, beyond a single question asking if they had a religious preference.

Like I said, our chaplain service was very active and I've been rather disappointed to see that it hasn't been so in the places I've been since traveling.

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those who call alll christians 'pushy' are over generalizing, they don't know about the quiet ones who go about their work

and those who state that all tv evanglelists are taking meth and running around paying for sex when they proclaim it a sin are these people also going to accept the blame when someone states that ALL

NURSES steal narcotics or that all nurses drown their children in the bathtub..i am sure that those who dedicate their life in pastoral service are at least as ethical as nurses and other health workers

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those who call alll christians 'pushy' are over generalizing, they don't know about the quiet ones who go about their work

and those who state that all tv evanglelists are taking meth and running around paying for sex when they proclaim it a sin are these people also going to accept the blame when someone states that ALL

NURSES steal narcotics or that all nurses drown their children in the bathtub..i am sure that those who dedicate their life in pastoral service are at least as ethical as nurses and other health workers

Of course.

These images do turn people off, however. But that is what sells the news. Meth and gay hookers, swindling little ol' ladies, child-molestation, prostitution, etc. When is the last time you saw a news report on the good a church, (or synagogue, or mosque) was doing? No one wants to hear that, because that is what they are supposed to do. It's not "news".

It used to be, years ago, these titillating stories would be reported and that would be that. Maybe a follow-up regarding any charges filed or whatever. Now, with the 24 hour news channels trying to out-scoop each other and fill every blasted minute of the day with "BREAKING NEWS!", they beat them into the ground, reporting every conceivable angle (and some that are just plain silly) until I want to throw a shoe through the TV.

Combine that sort of ridiculously obsessive reporting with the fact that good news doesn't sell, and you get a lop-sided view of Christianity specifically and religion in general. No wonder people stereotype and lump the good in with the bad.

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Specializes in ICU;CCU;Telemetry;L&D;Hospice;ER/Trauma;.

aspiringblacknurse

i know nurses aren't hired based on religious beliefs. but you have to realize that everyone has beliefs and just because you are hired as a nurse based on educational background and skill sets doesn't mean you should just totally suppress your religious beliefs. some will be willing to share, some will not. it doesn't mean all nurses should just totally hush up about their beliefs.

i do not think anyone said we should act as preachers up in the hospital and tell patients all about their sins. now if the patient feels comfortable talking about it, it would be fine, but no, it wouldn't be a good idea to just go all out like that as a nurse. you are blowing what people say about sharing the gospel way out of proportion. jesus simply told us to go and teach all nations baptizing them in the name of the father, the son, and holy spirit. that's it. if you read the book of acts in the holy bible, you will see where christians are coming from, whether they are a nurse or not

aspiringblacknurse,

i read the book of acts of the apostles when i was seven years old...and again, every year thereafter....these times were very special times for the disciples, post ascension....having been annointed by the holy spirit in the upper room....

again, i re-iterate that the common belief among most evangelical christians is that it is their duty to convert every non-christian to the faith, (tantamount to an almost crusade-like zeal...you do know about the crusades, don't you?) and....this belief is not biblical at all....

many believe that because the commandment was directed to the 12 and then to the 70, that it must also apply to them! the biggest problem with this is that it is much like handing a sophisticated instrument to a chimpanzee, and expecting the same results as handing the same instrument to a seasoned experienced human....

i am not saying that we don't have an avenue for sharing our faith....i am just saying that before someone picks up a bible and waves it in the face of a non-believer, they might want to read what is between genesis and revelation beforehand! they might want to know a little about the character of god.....they might want to know just exactly what they believe and why...(many who profess the faith of christianity cannot tell you why they believe what they believe!) many cannot tell you a simple bible verse....so before any of them decide to go out there with their jesus factor vests on and fly without a parachute, they just might want to really delve into god's word enough that they truly understand what their purpose and actions should be.

too many christians get fixated on a few choice bible verses, or even an idealology, but completely miss the point....they overstep boundaries, and run roughshod over anyone who would dare question them! what could be any more self-absorbed and narcissistic than someone who believes that they "go in the name of christ" and almost demand submission to their beliefs?? (this is the same spirit that propelled the crusades!)

i believe that you don't have to beat people over the head with a violin in order to teach them that music is beautiful....

i believe the same is true with personal faith....it is personal....and doesn't belong at the bedside of a dying patient, unless the patient has invited it...otherwise, it is forced religion...which is completely anti-christ....remember....you must weigh the spirits carefully...often, evil can disguise itself as an angel of light....you might believe you are doing "god's work and commandments," only to find, that you have actually done great harm to someone, because you put your own self agenda before another....christians are supposed to lead self-less lives....putting aside their ego rooted desires, and surrendering that self to christ....("i have been crucified with christ"....

it is my belief that the op was describing a person who clearly had her own agenda to fulfill, and not any of her patients'....after, she had it "squared away".

crni

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Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
aspiringblacknurse

i know nurses aren't hired based on religious beliefs. but you have to realize that everyone has beliefs and just because you are hired as a nurse based on educational background and skill sets doesn't mean you should just totally suppress your religious beliefs. some will be willing to share, some will not. it doesn't mean all nurses should just totally hush up about their beliefs.

i do not think anyone said we should act as preachers up in the hospital and tell patients all about their sins. now if the patient feels comfortable talking about it, it would be fine, but no, it wouldn't be a good idea to just go all out like that as a nurse. you are blowing what people say about sharing the gospel way out of proportion. jesus simply told us to go and teach all nations baptizing them in the name of the father, the son, and holy spirit. that's it. if you read the book of acts in the holy bible, you will see where christians are coming from, whether they are a nurse or not

aspiringblacknurse,

i read the book of acts of the apostles when i was seven years old...and again, every year thereafter....these times were very special times for the disciples, post ascension....having been annointed by the holy spirit in the upper room....

again, i re-iterate that the common belief among most evangelical christians is that it is their duty to convert every non-christian to the faith, (tantamount to an almost crusade-like zeal...you do know about the crusades, don't you?) and....this belief is not biblical at all....

many believe that because the commandment was directed to the 12 and then to the 70, that it must also apply to them! the biggest problem with this is that it is much like handing a sophisticated instrument to a chimpanzee, and expecting the same results as handing the same instrument to a seasoned experienced human....

i am not saying that we don't have an avenue for sharing our faith....i am just saying that before someone picks up a bible and waves it in the face of a non-believer, they might want to read what is between genesis and revelation beforehand! they might want to know a little about the character of god.....they might want to know just exactly what they believe and why...(many who profess the faith of christianity cannot tell you why they believe what they believe!) many cannot tell you a simple bible verse....so before any of them decide to go out there with their jesus factor vests on and fly without a parachute, they just might want to really delve into god's word enough that they truly understand what their purpose and actions should be.

too many christians get fixated on a few choice bible verses, or even an idealology, but completely miss the point....they overstep boundaries, and run roughshod over anyone who would dare question them! what could be any more self-absorbed and narcissistic than someone who believes that they "go in the name of christ" and almost demand submission to their beliefs?? (this is the same spirit that propelled the crusades!)

i believe that you don't have to beat people over the head with a violin in order to teach them that music is beautiful....

i believe the same is true with personal faith....it is personal....and doesn't belong at the bedside of a dying patient, unless the patient has invited it...otherwise, it is forced religion...which is completely anti-christ....remember....you must weigh the spirits carefully...often, evil can disguise itself as an angel of light....you might believe you are doing "god's work and commandments," only to find, that you have actually done great harm to someone, because you put your own self agenda before another....christians are supposed to lead self-less lives....putting aside their ego rooted desires, and surrendering that self to christ....("i have been crucified with christ"....

it is my belief that the op was describing a person who clearly had her own agenda to fulfill, and not any of her patients'....after, she had it "squared away".

crni

one pet peeve of mine is that while some may follow the bible word for word, i find they have not studied history, which is quite different from biblical verses. also, the fact that the holy bible has been editied for many years as well. emperor constantine edited a great deal of the bible to make it somewhat close to what is read today; and much of even that was lost in translation. many of the stories written in the bible were spoken words amongst common people for many years until someone who was actually able to read and write documented them. and, the memories may not have been as complete. there are also the so called heretical scriptures such as the urantia, apocrythia, pseudopigraphia and gnostic scriptures that are believed in as well and these are by people who also proclaim themselves to be christians.

i actually met a christian that believes that there is no life after death. this shocked me because my idea of any religion is a hope for a peaceful afterlife. this person believes that god is for the here and now, to bring peace to this life, but there is no ever-after. so, the deathbed confession may not even apply to this woman, even though, she calls herself a christian. what would be the use of evangelizing to this person if she believes that christ did die for her, but, to make her current life easier??

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Things a Christian nurse can do without violating the rights of her patients:

1. Bring excellence to your practice. Do everything as unto the Lord, starting with your initial education and continuing throughout your nursing lifetime.

2. Develop your own spirituality. Learn and grow in the ways of God. Become more and more attuned to the leading of the Spirit and less and less willing to forge ahead in the flesh.

3. Just as nurses acquire an "antiseptic conscience," cultivate a "respectful conscience," that makes insensitive behavior on your part stick out as unnatural and wrong.

4. Practice offering a listening ear. Listening, as other wise posters have said, sometimes seems like a lost art. Meet people where they are and just be with them. Care without judgment or strings attached. For some, this alone will be balm on a wound.

5. Meet the physical needs with kindness and grace. Jesus ministered to people's bodies before he tried to touch their hearts. He fed them, gave them water, calmed their spirits, and healed them first.

6. Be ready with an answer--if you are asked--about spiritual things or the source of your patience or joy or strength. Even then, tread lightly, recognizing the sacred trust put before you. If you were invited into someone's home, it is unlikely that you would barge in and start taking over. You would wait to be shown where the host wanted you to go and treat them and their domain with due regard. Think of the privacy and personal space of the person who makes an inquiry in this same way. Do not violate their invitation by overwhelming them or being insensitive to their reaction or their needs.

7. Be aware of (and content with) the fact that you may be only one of a chain of people who will reach out to this person. We sometimes place undue importance on "closing the deal." We act as if we are "on commission" instead of carrying out the Great Commission. We should never give the impression that we are all about "making another notch on the belt."

8. Don't underestimate the value of doing your job well. This honors God, your patient, your coworkers, and your employer. BTW, keep in mind the obligation you have to your employer. It is not unreasonable for a facility to expect that you will keep their agenda in mind while on the job.

9. Understand that a negative and/or disrespectful experience with a Christian can act like a vaccination, sensitizing the person against future contacts and ensuring that they will close the door on the subject forever.

10. This is the most important. Live the love and mercy of God so that just by watching you, your patient and anyone else who is looking on will see something of his nature. Don't think that the only things that count are preaching or teaching. Rather, cultivate your own "inner person of the heart, the lasting beauty of a gentle and tranquil spirit, which is precious in God’s sight.” 1 Peter 3:3-4 (NET)

Be an oasis of caring. Give your patient the best you have to offer. Listen with your whole heart. Pray silently (unless asked to do so aloud). Ask God to bless each encounter in the way that he sees best. Fit yourself to the calling of the Spirit.

BE the Gospel.

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Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
Things a Christian nurse can do without violating the rights of her patients:

1. Bring excellence to your practice. Do everything as unto the Lord, starting with your initial education and continuing throughout your nursing lifetime.

2. Develop your own spirituality. Learn and grow in the ways of God. Become more and more attuned to the leading of the Spirit and less and less willing to forge ahead in the flesh.

3. Just as nurses acquire an "antiseptic conscience," cultivate a "respectful conscience," that makes insensitive behavior on your part stick out as unnatural and wrong.

4. Practice offering a listening ear. Listening, as other wise posters have said, sometimes seems like a lost art. Meet people where they are and just be with them. Care without judgment or strings attached. For some, this alone will be balm on a wound.

5. Meet the physical needs with kindness and grace. Jesus ministered to people's bodies before he tried to touch their hearts. He fed them, gave them water, calmed their spirits, and healed them first.

6. Be ready with an answer--if you are asked--about spiritual things or the source of your patience or joy or strength. Even then, tread lightly, recognizing the sacred trust put before you. If you were invited into someone's home, it is unlikely that you would barge in and start taking over. You would wait to be shown where the host wanted you to go and treat them and their domain with due regard. Think of the privacy and personal space of the person who makes an inquiry in this same way. Do not violate their invitation by overwhelming them or being insensitive to their reaction or their needs.

7. Be aware of (and content with) the fact that you may be only one of a chain of people who will reach out to this person. We sometimes place undue importance on "closing the deal." We act as if we are "on commission" instead of carrying out the Great Commission. We should never give the impression that we are all about "making another notch on the belt."

8. Don't underestimate the value of doing your job well. This honors God, your patient, your coworkers, and your employer. BTW, keep in mind the obligation you have to your employer. It is not unreasonable for a facility to expect that you will keep their agenda in mind while on the job.

9. Understand that a negative and/or disrespectful experience with a Christian can act like a vaccination, sensitizing the person against future contacts and ensuring that they will close the door on the subject forever.

10. This is the most important. Live the love and mercy of God so that just by watching you, your patient and anyone else who is looking on will see something of his nature. Don't think that the only things that count are preaching or teaching. Rather, cultivate your own "inner person of the heart, the lasting beauty of a gentle and tranquil spirit, which is precious in God's sight." 1 Peter 3:3-4 (NET)

Be an oasis of caring. Give your patient the best you have to offer. Listen with your whole heart. Pray silently (unless asked to do so aloud). Ask God to bless each encounter in the way that he sees fit. Fit yourself to the calling of the Spirit.

BE the Gospel.

This is great; very respectful of others, acknowledging the authority of the job; even Jesus is quoted as saying something to the effect of "render unto Caesar what is Caeser's and unto God what is God's" (I know I spelled the name of the Roman Emperor wrong, folks, sorry for the typo).

And what is even better, we can each apply this to our individual religions.

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Specializes in Med-Surg.
those who call alll christians 'pushy' are over generalizing, they don't know about the quiet ones who go about their work

and those who state that all tv evanglelists are taking meth and running around paying for sex when they proclaim it a sin are these people also going to accept the blame when someone states that ALL

NURSES steal narcotics or that all nurses drown their children in the bathtub..i am sure that those who dedicate their life in pastoral service are at least as ethical as nurses and other health workers

Good post. There are probably aboutt 200 million Christians in America. Calling them pushy certainly isn't a reasonable assessment. Too bad the relatively few pushy ones give the rest a bad rap.....kind of like saying "nurses eat their young" don't you think? :lol2:

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Specializes in I have an interest in Travel and OB/L&D.
again, i re-iterate that the common belief among most evangelical christians is that it is their duty to convert every non-christian to the faith, (tantamount to an almost crusade-like zeal...you do know about the crusades, don't you?) and....this belief is not biblical at all....
well, this part of your post that i quoted is not my belief! i'm not what you would consider an evangelical christian. it is impossible to convert every non-christian to the christian faith. god has chosen who he wants to be christian and non-christian. evangelizing is a command done just to give god glory, not to try to get everyone to be a christian. ;)
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Specializes in I have an interest in Travel and OB/L&D.
One pet peeve of mine is that while some may follow the Bible word for word, I find they have not studied HISTORY, which is QUITE different from Biblical verses. Also, the fact that the Holy Bible has been editied for many years as well. Emperor Constantine edited a great deal of the Bible to make it somewhat close to what is read today; and much of even that was lost in translation. Many of the stories written in the Bible were spoken words amongst common people for many years until someone who was actually able to read and write documented them. And, the memories may not have been as complete. There are also the so called heretical scriptures such as the Urantia, Apocrythia, Pseudopigraphia and Gnostic Scriptures that are believed in as well and these are by people who also proclaim themselves to be Christians.
Yes, there are a lot of Christians who do not know the history behind the Bible. I've studied the history behind the Bible, the canonization, how it was edited and how the words/message have been lost in translation. Look at all the different translations we have today of the Bible. I've also read some of the heretical scriptures such as the Gnostic gospels. These gospels were rather interesting yet shocking at the same time. After reading the Gnostic gospels, you will see why it was left out of the Bible when it was canonized. So I keep the history of the Bible in mind at all times. However, the history of the Bible does not discount its message, validity, or authority. I will always use the Bible as my guide for Christian life. :)
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Specializes in LTC, Med/Surg, Peds, ICU, Tele.
those who call alll christians 'pushy' are over generalizing, they don't know about the quiet ones who go about their work

and those who state that all tv evanglelists are taking meth and running around paying for sex when they proclaim it a sin are these people also going to accept the blame when someone states that ALL

NURSES steal narcotics or that all nurses drown their children in the bathtub..i am sure that those who dedicate their life in pastoral service are at least as ethical as nurses and other health workers

Hi, that was me that brought up those examples and scandals as possible reasons that the public stereotypes Evangelical Christians. I specifically said that it wasn't 'all' of them, but that this was one reason why some people might be turned off by this variety of Christianity. That was in response to another post where someone asked why people picked on Evangelicals, and I brought those up as possiblities. I'm too lazy to go back and find the post.

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