The Great Double Standard?

Nurses Men

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I would like opinions from the rest of you guys. It seems everywhere I turn that there is this double standard that men nurses should not be providing care for any of women's intimate needs. I am still in nursing school, but it seems women nurses have no problem caring for either a male or female patient (students included), but men do not have that ability? I just don't quite understand this, when it is not even the patients perogative involved, just these female nurses who think they know "whats best". I would like this taboo to dissappear. Does anyone else see this? Any ideas who to remedy this issue and be able to call a nurse a nurse, and not a male or female nurse, each playing by different rules. I am pretty frustrated.

While you are entitled to your personal opinions and biases, you are incorrect about your discrimination. It does not matter an iota if your response is an "emotional" one or not...it is still discrimination. If a patient requested a white nurse 'even though they recognized that a black nurse was just as qualified' because it was an "emotional" issue for them, would you then say it wasn't discrimination? Of course not!

And while I appreciate your discomfort, let's call it what it is. Like all forms of discrimination, the best way to address it is with open and honest discussions, not attempts to bury the true nature of it under the guise of a different name.

you're right, bill.

i suppose it is a form of discrimination.

but if a woman doesn't want a male nurse r/t past trauma issues, or even overwhelming modesty, the pt's concerns will usually prevail, esp if she feels that strongly about it.

bottom line?

as long as a pt's prejudice isn't r/t hatred, it will continue to be about them, and not the nurse.

if a nurse has a grievance w/their employer, however, then any woes of discrimination will be rightfully heard.

leslie

you're right, bill.

i suppose it is a form of discrimination.

but if a woman doesn't want a male nurse r/t past trauma issues, or even overwhelming modesty, the pt's concerns will usually prevail, esp if she feels that strongly about it.

bottom line?

as long as a pt's prejudice isn't r/t hatred, it will continue to be about them, and not the nurse.

if a nurse has a grievance w/their employer, however, then any woes of discrimination will be rightfully heard.

leslie

Great point Leslie, I agree completely.

One thing I would like to see, I just wish a male patient's modesty concern was taken as seriously as that of a female patient's concern.

flyer

Great point Leslie, I agree completely.

One thing I would like to see, I just wish a male patient's modesty concern was taken as seriously as that of a female patient's concern.

flyer

flyer, i think that has to do w/the personality of the pt.

some pts are more assertive than others.

i cannot speak for all nurses.

but whenever i need to cath a male pt., i am very aware of any unspoken signals and discomfort he's displaying.

if i know of a male nurse that's available, i will offer their service (if the discomfort is that obvious)

i also ask if they would be more comfortable with wife/so present.

some speak up, others don't.

and then i blab their ears off, during the procedure.

they are usually very grateful.

if a nurse didn't listen to a pt's concerns, i would hope the pt would fight for their rights, until they are heard and respected.

it was great hearing from you, flyer. :)

leslie

Specializes in Rodeo Nursing (Neuro).
flyer, i think that has to do w/the personality of the pt.

some pts are more assertive than others.

i cannot speak for all nurses.

but whenever i need to cath a male pt., i am very aware of any unspoken signals and discomfort he's displaying.

if i know of a male nurse that's available, i will offer their service (if the discomfort is that obvious)

i also ask if they would be more comfortable with wife/so present.

some speak up, others don't.

and then i blab their ears off, during the procedure.

they are usually very grateful.

if a nurse didn't listen to a pt's concerns, i would hope the pt would fight for their rights, until they are heard and respected.

it was great hearing from you, flyer. :)

leslie

I've been asked, a few times, to perform personal care for a male pt--usually a younger one. I've had a few female pts ask for a female to do the foley or whatever--but surprisingly few.

As far as discrimination, consider public toilets. If we saw a restroom labeled "Whites Only," most of us, I think, would be rightly appalled. I see restrooms segregated by gender every day, and never give it a thought. Modesty is not sexism! There is a huge distinction between saying, "I'd be embarassed to have a man do that to me." and "There's no way a male could be competent to do that."

It is regrettable that a male patient's modesty can't always be as readily accommodated, but on some shifts on some units, male nurses may simply not be available. (Finally, an irrefutable reason why we "need" more male nurses!) But I also think it's fair to note that at least 90% of the pts I see running down the halls, naked, are males.

Specializes in Med-Surg, Trauma, Ortho, Neuro, Cardiac.

Modesty is not sexism! There is a huge distinction between saying, "I'd be embarassed to have a man do that to me." and "There's no way a male could be competent to do that."

Excellent way of looking at it.

I have a male primary care ARNP (who works for my male doctor) and it's just a matter of comfort for me, rather than sexism. Most of us have been segregated by sex whenever we have our clothes off from gym class, to bathroom stuff and if it's a matter of comfort for some of us. I let the patients have females when they reqeust it and don't think of it as a double standard, because if I have a choice I'm going to ask for a male nurse for that kind of stuff, but won't make a big deal if none if available because I know all nurses are competent.

Specializes in OB, critical care, hospice, farm/industr.

But BillEDRN, you are not saying you would force care on a female pt if she said she was uncomfortable with a male nurse, right?

What do you do in that situation?

When black patients have wanted a black nurse,(I'm white) I get them a black nurse if we have one. If we don't, I say sorry, how about you talk to our charge nurse and you two can figure out the best course of action.

It would be horrible to be in the care of someone you didn't feel safe with. I've been in that sitaution and just felt anxious and sick. I was afraid to go to sleep.

I agree too -- procedures shouldn't be gender specific.

However, I do occasionally offer to do certain things for a couple of guys I work with, and it's not out of sexism, just helpfulness. If an RN who is male has to find someone to stand in the room while he does a certain nursing procedure, sometimes I think it is helpful to offer to do the procedure for him in times of craziness, to eliminate tying up 2 staff for a 1-staff procedure and just help out. Of course for me, this applies to the ED. If in an area where things weren't so fast-paced, I'd just pop in and be present for them to do what they have to do.

But yeah, in terms of genitalia, or sex, both sexes are capable of doing the same things, right and wrong, so the expectation should be for BOTH sexes to act professionally.

It is the patient we are there to care for. If they want a female nurse, they should have one. It is a matter of dignity and not disrespect of the male nurse. The problem arises when you have a male who requests all male staff and is totally ignored upon that request. I work in surgery. It was on my day off. A male had previously asked that he be granted an all male room (like some females do). Instead of asking me to work on a day off like they would have on a female case, they did nothing and gave him an all (except the doc) a female room.

This is not only a double standard but also a cause for a lawsuit if ever found out about.

As the role of nursing is changing and more and more males are becoming involved, the patients are going to have to understand that such requests are not always feasible.

Within the same token you must look at the staffing issues and potential lawsuits. It does not make much sense to send a man in to do a pelvic exam and be witnessed by a female. It has taken 2 staff members away from the "team". If a female had done it, it would have only taken one member away from the team.

So yes there is a double standard and sometimes there is a good reason for it. Other time there is no reason for it.

Specializes in midwifery, ophthalmics, general practice.
While you are entitled to your personal opinions and biases, you are incorrect about your discrimination. It does not matter an iota if your response is an "emotional" one or not...it is still discrimination. If a patient requested a white nurse 'even though they recognized that a black nurse was just as qualified' because it was an "emotional" issue for them, would you then say it wasn't discrimination? Of course not!

And while I appreciate your discomfort, let's call it what it is. Like all forms of discrimination, the best way to address it is with open and honest discussions, not attempts to bury the true nature of it under the guise of a different name.

again i beg to differ...

if it was your grandmother who was too embarressed to have a male do personal care or your grandfather .. . would you force a nurse on them who made them uncomfortable?? patients in hospital feel threatened and vunerable... why would you add to those feelings by riding rough shod over their feelings??

this is, as Leslie says, an emotional response and something a lot of our older patients feel. it is about respect.

or is care in the states so different to care here in the UK?

Specializes in Rodeo Nursing (Neuro).

It's interesting to me that so many of the comments posted mention older ladies--my own experience has been that older patients seem to be a lot more matter-of-fact about these matters, and that younger women seem more modest. My theory (and I have a theory for almost everything) is that older patients have been hospitalized more often that younger ones and are more used to the routine. If not male nurses, they've been poked and prodded by enough male doctors that it just doesn't matter as much. Also why they don't complain about the food or call out for pain meds as often.

Early in my unlicensed days, I was asked to assist an elderly, obese lady with a new hip from the bed to the bedside commode. I was taking care to preserve her modesty as much as possible when she chuckled and said, "Don't worry, honey, the first thing you lose is your dignity."

Those words have never left me, and as much as I appreciated and enjoyed her good humor, I hope never to deprive a pt of his or her dignity. If I'm tying someone to their bed, I try to do it respectfully.

I've also had a couple of patients tell me they had been a little uncertain about having a male nurse at the beginning of my shift, but that I could be their nurse anytime when I was finishing up in the morning. At least one of them, and more than a few others, have found as the shift wore on that they would rather have the male nurse who was available put them on the toilet than wait until the female aide could get to them.

Anyway, this leads me to the thought that when a female patient is resistant to having a male nurse, a decent compromise might be to ask whether the male could continue as her nurse, but call a female for the more personal aspects of her care. Granted, this isn't efficient, but I think it's entirely possible many would soon get over their initial discomfort. Most of us, after all, are pretty decent guys, and a lot of ladies might be more accepting, if they got a chance to get to know us.

Specializes in Diabetes ED, (CDE), CCU, Pulmonary/HIV.
It's interesting to me that so many of the comments posted mention older ladies--my own experience has been that older patients seem to be a lot more matter-of-fact about these matters, and that younger women seem more modest. My theory (and I have a theory for almost everything) is that older patients have been hospitalized more often that younger ones and are more used to the routine. If not male nurses, they've been poked and prodded by enough male doctors that it just doesn't matter as much. Also why they don't complain about the food or call out for pain meds as often.

When I was 17, I was hospitalized for 2 weeks for rheumatic fever. About 1 week into my stay, A very good looking young EKG tech came into my room. He asked for pt by my name, but looked puzzled when I said "That's me." He told me his paperwork gave my age as 71! He left and shortly a female tech came in and did the EKG. Even though it was my 1st hospitalization, by the end of the first week, I had lost all modesty and couldn't have cared less who did the EKG. And, as I said, he was very cute!

Specializes in ED, critical care, flight nursing, legal.
But BillEDRN, you are not saying you would force care on a female pt if she said she was uncomfortable with a male nurse, right?

What do you do in that situation?

When black patients have wanted a black nurse,(I'm white) I get them a black nurse if we have one. If we don't, I say sorry, how about you talk to our charge nurse and you two can figure out the best course of action.

It would be horrible to be in the care of someone you didn't feel safe with. I've been in that sitaution and just felt anxious and sick. I was afraid to go to sleep.

I wouldn't "force" care on anyone at anytime...however, I have told patients that I was the only nurse available to do the procedure so they could decide to have me do it or not. I find it interesting that you tried to accomodate a black person's request for a black nurse. If the situation was reversed, a white person asked their assigned black nurse for another, white nurse, would that be OK?

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