At first I wasn't going to write this post since I believe that a film that appears to be (at least in part) based on thoroughly discredited, fear-mongering nonsense should get as little attention as possible.
Then after browsing several anti-vaccine and conspiracist websites I found as I suspected, that this has already exploded and whatever I write here won't make matters any worse.
The film 'Vaxxed' is directed by Mr Andrew Wakefield, a former physician who lost his medical license after research that he had authored, was found fraudulent (containing as I understand it, both methodological and ethical flaws).
Just watching the trailer for this film elevated my BP into dangerous territory. How is it that this man keeps promoting the same debunked data to this day? Hasn't it caused enough harm already?
It seems that anti-vaccine proponents span the entire spectrum from sadly misinformed to clearly unhinged. However, no matter what their individual motivation happens to be, they are in my opinion dangerous. We have fought a hard battle against diseases that today are vaccine-preventable. Millions of children have died in the past and some still do, to this day. We don't see much of it in first-world countries due to the success of vaccines. Anti-vaccine proponents seem to believe that the "olden days" were better. I think it's deeply worrisome.
In my escapades around the internet, I've found all sorts of scary blogs, clips and opinions relating to childhood vaccines.
This YouTube clip rather amusingly (in a sad way) has 90 likes and zero (!) dislikes (probably because no rational person would even click on it in the first place). (I'm not sure what this says about me)
Anyway this women thinks that nagalese (an enzyme) is added on purpose to vaccines in order to induce autism, cancer and type 2 diabetes in vaccine recipients. And the doctors who discovered this were subsequently murdered to cover this up. This vaccine tampering seems to be a part of some nefarious population control plot.
(It seems that alpha-N-acetylgalactoseaminidase (referred to as nagalese in the YouTube clip) can deglycosylate vitamin D binding protein (DBP) and DBP plays a role in the immune cascade response. So it seems that alpha-N-acetylgalactosaminidase can interfere with the immune response. While some cancer cells can release alpha-N-acetylgalactosaminidase, I've found no proof that injecting them into humans induces cancers, never mind autism and DMII. I will however admit that I didn't spend an inordinate amount of time researching her theory).
I admit that this last video is a bit extreme. But this woman and other "anti-vaxxers" have one thing on common. They are willing to accept something as true, even when there is no supporting evidence available.
Serious questions:
* Why are some people so vulnerable/susceptible to flawed logic and poor research?
* What can we as nurses/healthcare professionals do to ensure that our patients base their decisions on sound evidence-based facts or at least have the opportunity to do so? Or should we just reconcile ourselves with the fact that a portion of the population will base their decisions on questionable or outright false information, misconceptions and fear?
You're an honest person! I like your humor about the tinfoil hat--but I avoid tin foil, as it's not good for people.
Thank you for being open to considering more research about this contentious topic of vaccine safety, causes of autism, etc. I'm interested in your views, anytime, and also once we get to see the "VAXXED" film, and once more research is done!
Thank you, Farawyn, for asking! Here's what I was talking about:
Too many times, it IS the vaccination that causes autism, but too many medical people are in "denial", because they just ASSUME that vaccines couldn't possibly be that harmful---so they find all kinds of other so-called causes of autism (some other causes ARE the cause), or, they say--there's no cause at all, so just accept your child as being different, and gifted in other ways.
Sometimes heavy metal detoxification (either with EDTA or, with "Modified Citrus Pectin", orally), can improve someone's case of autism, if the heavy metal mercury, for example, was a contributing factor.
So, the car hitting human analogy can work either way:
1) Yes, cars kill people, and most of such people DIDN'T have a simutaneous heart attack. The analogy here, is that cars are NON-vaccine causes of autism, and that the heart attack symbolizes a vaccine cause of autism.
or:
2) In SOME cases, the person DID have a heart attack, but everyone figured that it was ONLY the car, that was the cause of death. The analogy in this case, is that everyone ASSUMES that nothing else was happening at the same time as the car/human interaction. In this case the "heart attack", etc., (analogy--heart attack equals vaccine reaction) WAS the actual cause of death, but it was hidden, by other events (car hitting person).
Hope this explains it a bit more clearly.
Nope...I'm not buying it. Tell me again what proof you have that the vaccines are causing the autism, as you are so emphatic on saying. How can I and other medical personnel be in denial of something that has been disproved ad nauseum? SHOW ME THE PROOF!!
I love cats, so hope you can stop weeping, and start thinking, so you don't disturb your cat.
Take a look at Back to Eden, by Jethro Kloss, who used to use a sauna, etc., to kill tetorifice bacteria in his patients who had tetorifice, by the hyperthermia. Not safe for everyone, but apparently worked for his patients.
BCgradnurse--I'll work on showing you the evidence. I think--we'll know when we see the "VAXXED" film, that there's some good evidence in THAT FILM! Let's both see the "VAXXED" film! How about it?
BCgradnurse--I'll work on showing you the evidence. I think--we'll know when we see the "VAXXED" film, that there's some good evidence in THAT FILM! Let's both see the "VAXXED" film! How about it?
Eh...I don't have to stick my head into a garbage can to know it stinks - nor do I need to watch "Vaxxed" to know it is tripe wrapped in pseudoscience.
BCgradnurse--I'll work on showing you the evidence. I think--we'll know when we see the "VAXXED" film, that there's some good evidence in THAT FILM! Let's both see the "VAXXED" film! How about it?
There is no evidence or proof presented in a movie. It is for entertainment purposes.
I've been busy working and haven't had the time to post. There are many new posts and I can't possibly address them all. I suspect that I'd likely be wasting a lot of energy with little chance of success/progress even if I tried.
It's a bit sad to see those who oppose vaccines allude to the existence of evidence that supports their claims, yet time and time again, fail to produce links to this research when asked to do so.
In previous posts in this thread I have posed a few questions to posters who've expressed disbelief of vaccine safety. In response to a poster's statement "There is little research to prove either argument. I would say that discussion about the topic should be welcomed until such time that a determination can be made", I asked the following questions:
How do you figure? Literally hundredsofmillions of MMR doses have been administered since the early 1970s. To date there is nocredibleresearch linking autism to the MMR vaccine. How many more administered doses will it take before you can finally believe/trust the data? A billion? Twenty billion?
No reply.
I posted a link to WHO statistics on measles that show there are more than 100,000 measles deaths annually and that the estimated measles-related Deaths prior to mass vaccination is estimated at 2.6 million per year. I then asked the question of a poster who had claimed that vaccine supporters use anecdotal data to prove their position:
Do you consider this anecdotal?
No reply.
I also posted a link to a blog that quite clearly explains the concepts of correlation and causation, and how correlation only occasionally equals causation.
No reaction from the anti-vaccine posters. (Not that surprising if I'm being honest).
Do you guys realize that that I could easily demonstrate a correlation between the increase in autism diagnoses and the sale of Nespresso capsules. I assume that you understand that the increase in sales of coffee capsules hasn't led to a higher number of autism diagnoses? Do you also understand that you can substitute the coffee capsules with the MMR vaccine and that the causation is equally lacking in both these products?
Many other posters have also asked questions waiting for answers and have asked for links to reasearch, yet none seem to be forthcoming.
I'm so tired of people making unsubstantiated claims, defending those claims with great energy and zeal, yet fail completely to back their claims up with any real research/evidence. Arghh.
...personal stories of preventable diseases causing death and serious disability have an effect on people more than facts. There is some research being conducted that is supporting this more and more.
Facts do not seem to challenge people who hold these beliefs. It appears that showing them the results of Timmy down the road getting mumps and seeing videos of parents telling their story of what it was like when their child had measles can have an impact. Then give them facts on top of that.
Calling people anti-vaxxers, crazy etc. puts us, as professionals, in a poor head space to approach and deal with their objections.
They won't adjust their approach. We need to.
I think that you are right about everything that I've quoted and the parts that I've bolded, scare me.
If vaccinations rates continue to decline, and the film that this thread is about, may well result in that, we will see an increase of both deaths and individuals living with serious sequelae from vaccine preventable diseases. When the number becomes large enough and the risks of these diseases can no longer be ignored, the tide will turn and people will again choose vaccinations and be grateful for them. Perhaps some people today have to experience first-hand to gain the knowledge that previous generations already possessed 50 years and longer ago. Why can't we be smart enough to learn from history instead?
BCgradnurse--I'll work on showing you the evidence. I think--we'll know when we see the "VAXXED" film, that there's some good evidence in THAT FILM! Let's both see the "VAXXED" film! How about it?
Nope-just cause it's in a movie doesn't mean it's real...much as I wish the Harry Potter movies were real, they just aren't. Remember the phrase, "it's only a movie". As far as tetorifice is concerned, tell me you don't really believe that putting someone in a sauna every time they step on a rusty nail will prevent tetorifice. Should we build community saunas or should every family have their own? Are saunas really safer than vaccines?
I had some hope for you, but now you're just going too far down the woo-woo spectrum.
Thank you, Farawyn, for asking! Here's what I was talking about:
Too many times, it IS the vaccination that causes autism, but too many medical people are in "denial", because they just ASSUME that vaccines couldn't possibly be that harmful---
You have it exactly backwards. The "medical people" are not "ASSUM(ING)" that vaccinations can't cause autism because vaccinations "couldn't possibly be that harmful." The "medical people" are operating from knowledge of the multiple legitimate research studies that have found no connection between vaccinations and autism. (It's called the scientific method -- try it some time!) It is your crowd that is "assuming" that, because kids with autism have had vaccinations, it must be the vaccinations causing the autism, despite all actual, real-life evidence to the contrary.
Please, for the love of God, provide some miniscule shred of actual, legitimate support for your statement that "(T)oo many times, it IS the vaccination that causes autism ..."
Lord, give me strength ... (Why am I even wasting my time? I know better ...)
I don't know if this has already been mentioned in previous posts, but if you need relief from conspiracy loons in general, I highly recommend seeing this satire piece by John Oliver on Cadbury Easter egg cremes . It's under 5 minutes. It's worth it. All of his pieces are worth seeing. He is hilarious, smart, and always leaves me wanting to watch more.
I don't know if this has already been mentioned in previous posts, but if you need relief from conspiracy loons in general, I highly recommend seeing this satire piece by John Oliver on Cadbury Easter egg cremes . It's under 5 minutes. It's worth it. All of his pieces are worth seeing. He is hilarious, smart, and always leaves me wanting to watch more.
)
to cover this up. This vaccine tampering seems to be a part of some nefarious population control plot.
concerned lady
133 Posts
Elkpark,
You're an honest person! I like your humor about the tinfoil hat--but I avoid tin foil, as it's not good for people.
Thank you for being open to considering more research about this contentious topic of vaccine safety, causes of autism, etc. I'm interested in your views, anytime, and also once we get to see the "VAXXED" film, and once more research is done!