At first I wasn't going to write this post since I believe that a film that appears to be (at least in part) based on thoroughly discredited, fear-mongering nonsense should get as little attention as possible.
Then after browsing several anti-vaccine and conspiracist websites I found as I suspected, that this has already exploded and whatever I write here won't make matters any worse.
The film 'Vaxxed' is directed by Mr Andrew Wakefield, a former physician who lost his medical license after research that he had authored, was found fraudulent (containing as I understand it, both methodological and ethical flaws).
Just watching the trailer for this film elevated my BP into dangerous territory. How is it that this man keeps promoting the same debunked data to this day? Hasn't it caused enough harm already?
It seems that anti-vaccine proponents span the entire spectrum from sadly misinformed to clearly unhinged. However, no matter what their individual motivation happens to be, they are in my opinion dangerous. We have fought a hard battle against diseases that today are vaccine-preventable. Millions of children have died in the past and some still do, to this day. We don't see much of it in first-world countries due to the success of vaccines. Anti-vaccine proponents seem to believe that the "olden days" were better. I think it's deeply worrisome.
In my escapades around the internet, I've found all sorts of scary blogs, clips and opinions relating to childhood vaccines.
This YouTube clip rather amusingly (in a sad way) has 90 likes and zero (!) dislikes (probably because no rational person would even click on it in the first place). (I'm not sure what this says about me)
Anyway this women thinks that nagalese (an enzyme) is added on purpose to vaccines in order to induce autism, cancer and type 2 diabetes in vaccine recipients. And the doctors who discovered this were subsequently murdered to cover this up. This vaccine tampering seems to be a part of some nefarious population control plot.
(It seems that alpha-N-acetylgalactoseaminidase (referred to as nagalese in the YouTube clip) can deglycosylate vitamin D binding protein (DBP) and DBP plays a role in the immune cascade response. So it seems that alpha-N-acetylgalactosaminidase can interfere with the immune response. While some cancer cells can release alpha-N-acetylgalactosaminidase, I've found no proof that injecting them into humans induces cancers, never mind autism and DMII. I will however admit that I didn't spend an inordinate amount of time researching her theory).
I admit that this last video is a bit extreme. But this woman and other "anti-vaxxers" have one thing on common. They are willing to accept something as true, even when there is no supporting evidence available.
Serious questions:
* Why are some people so vulnerable/susceptible to flawed logic and poor research?
* What can we as nurses/healthcare professionals do to ensure that our patients base their decisions on sound evidence-based facts or at least have the opportunity to do so? Or should we just reconcile ourselves with the fact that a portion of the population will base their decisions on questionable or outright false information, misconceptions and fear?
What might change some stubborn minds here, is when one or more children of nurses posting here, are harmed by vaccines, and I really hate to see that happen, as a terrible wake up call. And, in some cases, there would be "denial" that it was vaccines, that harmed their children. This is unfortunate, but is sometimes a natural reaction.
Are you denying that before the advent of vaccines, millions of people died of infectious disease? If you are, then you weren't paying attention in nursing school. There is NO comparison between numbers of vaccine adverse events and the morbidity and mortality which comes with diseases that are now prevented by vaccines. You really need to bone up on your math.
You have presented ZERO proof of any causative relationship between vaccines and autism. ZERO. Simply saying that a parent believes it is not *proof*. Parents believe a lot of things that don't turn out to be true. Parents in Canada were SURE that treating their son's illness with maple syrup and other "natural remedies" would cure him. Turns out that bacterial meningitis doesn't really respond to maple syrup. Of course, the vaccine might have helped him out, but as it is, these misguided parents who listened to drivel like you're propogating are now on trial for this little child's death. Your brand of "science," which is to completely ignore the scientific method is it's own brand of sadism and is totally lacking in "concern."
I could say over and over and over that eating bananas causes autism. There is NO research to prove that eating bananas doesn't cause autism, so it MUST be true, yes?
Studies so far that you reference, may not yet show what future studies might show, that is, that what was previously thought to be rare (adverse vaccine effects) may actually be not so rare, after all!
As more is learned, cause and effect relationships become more widely recognized.
This meta-analysis looked at more than 2 million children from 1946 through 2014 and found "no evidence of arelationship between vaccination and autism or autism spectrumdisorders and as such advocate the continuation of immunisationprograms according to national guidelines". That's almost 70 years of strong data supporting the safety of the MMR vaccine. I doubt much "new" information is going to come into light unless a bunch of 70 year olds start developing autism.
Please share the study which you have read making you think there is going to be some sudden change in 70 years of data.
Taylor, L. E., Swerdfeger, A. L., & Eslick, G. D. (2014). Vaccines are not associated with autism: an evidence-based meta-analysis of case-control and cohort studies. Vaccine, 32(29), 3623-3629.
Risks to both unvaccinated and vaccinated people, from recently vaccinated children and adults "shedding" (sharing organisms that were in their vaccines), may prove to be a higher risk than formerly thought--including risks to pregnant moms.
"Viral shedding" is a myth of the anti-vaccination bloggers. It doesn't actually exist. It is another example of the parroting-back that goes on in the anti-vaccination movement.
I appreciate your passion on this subject matter. However, I have yet to see you present credible evidence that backs up your statements that vaccines cause autism. Several people here have given you links to proven, reputable, scientific studies that dispute your claim. Have you read those? If not, are you willing to? If not, then how can you condemn those who are not interested in seeing some pseudoscientific movie directed by someone who has been wholly discredited in the medical and scientific community? And for my own knowledge, are you a nurse?
I don't have a neuron in me that believes vaccines cause autism. I do believe in rare cases some have adverse reactions to vaccines, some of which have lifelong effects. However, given the choice, I'd rather have a living autistic child than a dead typically developing one who died from a vaccine presentable disease.
I once had a patient who believed that his diabetes was the result of his drinking water being tampered with. He refused to accept that his diet was way too high in sugars and carbs and that his drinking water wasn't a problem. His wife told me they had their water tested and it was expensive because it was a well on their property and not something the town would do for them, it was all to prove that their drinking water was adding tons of sugar to his diet. the results of those tests showed that he had water in his water, not sugar, and you think that would make him see the light? heck no he just insisted that the water testing company was in on it somehow and didn't really test his water properly or they would have found the sugar hiding there.
Do you think that this man was in denial because I sure do! No amount of testing and reason and information and diet instruction was going to work because he was already totally convinced that he was right in spite of overwhelming evidence against it.
This is exactly what it looks like to me, reading this and seeing concerned lady saying things that make no sense and have already been disproven who knows how many times and continuing to repeat nonsense doesn't make it true. Evidence won't change her mind any more than my patient with uncontrolled diabetes would change his mind that he wasn't being sabatoged by his well water!
oh and I'd like to add about why I won't waste time and money seeing VAXXED is that although I haven't seen the movie Jesse James and Frankenstein's Daughter I'm pretty sure I know it'll be a stupid movie with a ridiculous premise lol!! do I really need to see it to know this????
Conspiracy theorists don't care about science, factual data, or the sad truth that before the advent of vaccines, millions upon millions of people died from infectious disease.
Some posters think that ganging up (feeling safer when they are part of a mob), will prove that their points are correct.
What makes you think that anyone here has a need to do things a certain way in order to feel safe?
What you perceive as "ganging up" is simply the fact that many healthcare professionals posting here share the same or similar opinions. The reason for that is simple and completely benign. Once you have become research literate (as every healthcare professional ought to be) you can peruse the available research and independently evaluate the quality of that research and what conclusions one can draw from it. We understand the scientific method and we've arrived at the conclusion that after hundreds of millions administered MMR vaccine doses, there is no proven link between the vaccine and autism.
The fact that you find yourself in the minority here is because you are on a nursing website. Any other outcome would be a serious concern and a wake-up call regarding the quality of the various educational paths that result in a nursing degree.
It isn't the fact that we are a large group who agrees that proves us correct, it is the scientific evidence itself.
What might change some stubborn minds here, is when one or more children of nurses posting here, are harmed by vaccines, and I really hate to see that happen, as a terrible wake up call. And, in some cases, there would be "denial" that it was vaccines, that harmed their children. This is unfortunate, but is sometimes a natural reaction.
It's mildly amusing and ironic to be accused of having a stubborn mind. The scientific method is really quite the opposite of an inflexible mind. It constantly looks at new evidence and is willing and able to change positions if new credible (!) evidence proves something that was previously unknown.
I think that I speak for most of us when I say that you're wrong with your assumption that having a personal experience of having an autistic child would automatically convert us to your beliefs. First of all, you have no idea how many of the nurses in this thread might actually already have a child with an autism diagnosis.
Second, that's not how the scientifically trained mind reasons. If my child suffered a fracture today or came down with or was diagnosed with something, I wouldn't automatically decide that it was the MMR vaccine or the peanutbutter my child ate last Thursday or the new brand of toothpaste that I bought a month ago, that caused it. I wouldn't leap to that daft conclusion even if my neighbor's kid and my cousin's kid suffered the same injury or disease and happened to have bought the same brand toothpaste at about the same time or done any of the other two things mentioned. And no, it wouldn't be because I was "in denial". It would be because I know better.
You and other vaccine opponents continue to confuse causation with correlation. I wish you could see that.
Too many times it IS the vaccination that autism, but too many medical people are "in denial", because they just ASSUME that vaccines couldn't possible be that harmful--
You don't get to say that something IS without backing it up with evidence.
Your claim that the MMR vaccine causes autism doesn't carry any more weight/credibility than me insisting on that eating cucumbers and bell peppers has been known to cause severe osteomyelitis necessitating amputation.
BCgradnurse--I'll work on showing you the evidence. I think-- we'll know when we both see the 'VAXXED' film, that there's some good evidence in THAT FILM! Let's both see the 'VAXXED' film! How about it?
Concerned lady, you and I have clashed before on the topic of vaccines. You expressed the same standpoint in September 2015, as you do now in this thread. I suspect youve held your beliefs longer than the seven months time that has passed since then, but even seven months is ample time.
Why is it that you don't by now have the supporting scientific evidence for your stance readily available at your fingertips? Since your beliefs clearly predates this cinematic happening you shouldn't be in the position that you have to wait for this (in my opinion) wretched film to be able to present us with some credible evidence.
I'm sure you're wondering how I can call the film, wretched before having seen it. I saw the trailer. That was quite enough to be able identify it as pseudo-science. I will probably watch it though, at some point in time. It'll likely become available on YouTube sooner or later.
It's never a good thing, when some nurses cover their ears, essentially shouting "La, la, la, I can't heeeear you!"
You said the same thing in the thread in 2015. Do you feel that you are engaging in dialogue with those of us who don't agree with your standpoint? I might be wrong, but I don't get the impression that you're hearingus.
I'll never forget seeing a doctor on a TV show, several years ago, whose son was made autistic by vaccines, administered by the doctor (dad). The doctor's wife said to her husband: "You broke him. You fix him!" Her words were chilling.
I agree, if this is how it happened it is chilling. What a cruel thing to say to your child's other parent (in this case father), and especially so since the accusation happens to be based on a falsehood.
so unscientific, closed-minded, and childish.
so I hope fear of the unknown (the film) will take a back seat to scientific curiosity
Why do you assume things and assign character traits to us when you've never met any of us and don't know us?
I hope you're brave enough to view the film.
It's not courage or bravery that I need to be able to watch this film, it's a generous dollop of Ondansetron.
I have heard some of the premise of VAXXED and I am not interested. Much like I am not interested in another Rambo movie. It's irrelevant, a desperate bid for attention, and is based on a movement that has long ago run its course.
I have limited time for entertainment and prefer to use it wisely. Hence, "Deadpool." THAT was worth the price!!
You wrote that you're not going to see the "VAXXED" film: "No, I'm not going to see it. Apparently it was rejected from the TriBeCa film festival. They don't want to see dreck either."
You do know what "dreck" means, right? It means feces. Perhaps you should make up your own mind, and not depend on "heresay", for your opinions? You could try to be brave, and see the film for yourself, and let us know what you think, AFTER you view "VAXXED". And, how do you know what Robert De Niro really thinks of the film, himself? Are you a close confidante of that famous actor?
)
to cover this up. This vaccine tampering seems to be a part of some nefarious population control plot.
Horseshoe, BSN, RN
5,879 Posts
Are you denying that before the advent of vaccines, millions of people died of infectious disease? If you are, then you weren't paying attention in nursing school. There is NO comparison between numbers of vaccine adverse events and the morbidity and mortality which comes with diseases that are now prevented by vaccines. You really need to bone up on your math.
You have presented ZERO proof of any causative relationship between vaccines and autism. ZERO. Simply saying that a parent believes it is not *proof*. Parents believe a lot of things that don't turn out to be true. Parents in Canada were SURE that treating their son's illness with maple syrup and other "natural remedies" would cure him. Turns out that bacterial meningitis doesn't really respond to maple syrup. Of course, the vaccine might have helped him out, but as it is, these misguided parents who listened to drivel like you're propogating are now on trial for this little child's death. Your brand of "science," which is to completely ignore the scientific method is it's own brand of sadism and is totally lacking in "concern."
I could say over and over and over that eating bananas causes autism. There is NO research to prove that eating bananas doesn't cause autism, so it MUST be true, yes?