The Economy and your job as a nurse

ND76 · Feb 7, 2009

Do you think we are close to the point where we start turning each other in for having unclean shoes in hopes of getting someone else fired instead of being laid off ourselves? I wonder sometimes.
To be honest, I see some of this competitive one up-ing going on with travel nurses already. I can tell a few stories about backstabbing and such. No one wants to hear them though. Wish I had a couple about nurses supporting one another.

Unfortunately, yes... As soon as the schedule comes out, people grab it and start scouring it to make sure that no one got any extra shifts, and that someone didn't get more weekend hours (i.e. more diff=more money) than the rest of the staff. There are a couple of nurses I work with who have a list of all the other staff and how many hours they are actually hired for. For example, we have three different levels of 'full time'. There is a 64 hr per payperiod FT, a 72 hr per pp FT, and an 80 hr per pp FT. We now work 12 hour shifts, so most of the 32 hour per week people actually get a full 36 hour week. Well...you should hear the stink that is being raised over that.

There are some nurses who "take notes" in case they get in trouble for something, that way they can point a finger at others. There have also been more trivial writeups lately. I just try to come in, do everything strictly according to policy, bust my butt for 12 hours, and keep my patients happy and get out unscathed.

I'm PRN, and only entitled to 20 hours per 4 week schedule. But I'm flexible, and work days, nights, evenings, and in two other departments. I'm getting enough hours right now, because I can cover holes and will work whatever I can. I usually end up working at least 36 hours per week. But it's cutthroat among regular staff members who can 'only work nights,' or can 'only work weekend days,' or who refuse to get pulled to another unit if they're needed. I'm afraid a lot of people are digging their own grave.

eriksoln, BSN, RN · Feb 7, 2009

Yep, exactly the atmosphere I fear becoming the norm. LOL. First thing nurses do when the get scared is start abusing the other nurses. Why? And then we spend entire classes discussing why nursing is not respected as a profession. Hmmm........where is the cause and effect. pfffft.

Quaffetti · Feb 7, 2009

I hope you don't think this "every man for himself" attitude is only present among nurses. People do things when they're scared that they would never do under normal circumstances. I mean, we accept that of patients all the time. How many times do you hear a nurse say, "Well Bob is really angry, but it's because he just got a diagnosis of cancer."

The threat of being unemployed or not being able to support your family must be at least as scary as having cancer (and please don't think I'm making light of having cancer).

The only person you can control is yourself. So keep a good attitute and continue to support your fellow nurses. I'm one who believes good karma comes to those who deserve it.

eriksoln, BSN, RN · Feb 7, 2009

I hope you don't think this "every man for himself" attitude is only present among nurses. People do things when they're scared that they would never do under normal circumstances. I mean, we accept that of patients all the time. How many times do you hear a nurse say, "Well Bob is really angry, but it's because he just got a diagnosis of cancer."
The threat of being unemployed or not being able to support your family must be at least as scary as having cancer (and please don't think I'm making light of having cancer).
The only person you can control is yourself. So keep a good attitute and continue to support your fellow nurses. I'm one who believes good karma comes to those who deserve it.

Couldnt agree more. And I too am a firm believer in leading by example, but sometimes need reminding of it.

kcochrane · Feb 7, 2009

Maybe I missed it, but I bet there will also be a lot of non-practicing nurses that re-enter the nursing field.

In our area one hospital had layoffs, but it wasn't direct patient care staff. Our facility so far is fine, but I hear grumblings of budget (it is the county) and union contract negotiations, so who knows what is down the line. But we also have not been hit as hard as the rest of the country at this point.

I work at a LTC county home and last time times hit hard, they tried to staff as much as they could with LPNs and laid off many of the RNs.....one of the reasons one of the nurse manager here keeps her LPN license current with her RN license.

Christie RN2006 · Feb 7, 2009

Last year things were looking pretty rough at my hospital... the census was down, they closed our STC unit at night and all semi-private rooms were converted to private and lots of nurses had to be reassigned, no one at my hospital got cost of living raises, a lot of our bonuses got cut, we were not supposed to work any overtime, there was talk of a hiring freeze and several non-nursing jobs got cut. As I said, things were looking pretty rough! So far this year, the census has soared and we have had to go back to semi-private rooms in some units because of the increasing number of patients. We had 2 gen-meds in the ICU the other night that we were trying to find a room for, but there were no rooms, the hospital was full! I have been getting called almost every day to work overtime when just 2 months ago, overtime was unheard of!?! I agree with one of the previous posters that it seems like the worse the economy gets, the busier we get. We have been forced to work short staffed many days and it seems like the patients just get sicker and sicker.

Faeriewand, ASN, RN · Feb 8, 2009

Hey I thought you had to give up your LPN license when you got your RN license. :icon_roll Anyone know?

RN's at my hospital were talking one day about how the hospital is starting to hire so many LVN's to save money and what would come next is that the RN's would lose jobs being replaced by the LVN's. I sure hope not- really puts us LVN's on the spot.

Maybe I missed it, but I bet there will also be a lot of non-practicing nurses that re-enter the nursing field.
In our area one hospital had layoffs, but it wasn't direct patient care staff. Our facility so far is fine, but I hear grumblings of budget (it is the county) and union contract negotiations, so who knows what is down the line. But we also have not been hit as hard as the rest of the country at this point.
I work at a LTC county home and last time times hit hard, they tried to staff as much as they could with LPNs and laid off many of the RNs.....one of the reasons one of the nurse manager here keeps her LPN license current with her RN license.

pagandeva2000, LPN · Feb 8, 2009

NYer from a big hosp here.
My place supposedly has a hiring freeze going on. But they still employ travelers, and I'm sure they'll continue to do so. My unit is almost always painfully understaffed. Everyone puts in lots of OT and they're rarely cancelled. The PD-ers are never cancelled, they're cheaper than the OTs.
Man, I can't type tonight!

I am also in New York, working for HHC. They are closing two major hospitals in my area (I'm sure if you live in the metro area, you know of them...Mary Immaculate and Saint John's Hospital) at the end of the month. I am hearing that they will be canceling their agency nurses sooner than later, opting to offer the agency work for the nurses who already work with us, rather than pay overtime.

Last year things were looking pretty rough at my hospital... the census was down, they closed our STC unit at night and all semi-private rooms were converted to private and lots of nurses had to be reassigned, no one at my hospital got cost of living raises, a lot of our bonuses got cut, we were not supposed to work any overtime, there was talk of a hiring freeze and several non-nursing jobs got cut. As I said, things were looking pretty rough! So far this year, the census has soared and we have had to go back to semi-private rooms in some units because of the increasing number of patients. We had 2 gen-meds in the ICU the other night that we were trying to find a room for, but there were no rooms, the hospital was full! I have been getting called almost every day to work overtime when just 2 months ago, overtime was unheard of!?! I agree with one of the previous posters that it seems like the worse the economy gets, the busier we get. We have been forced to work short staffed many days and it seems like the patients just get sicker and sicker.

I hear that we will be consolidating services in the clinics, closing down some of the offsites and bringing those nurses here to the facility. Also, there is a solid rumor that HHC may be laying off at the end of March, and it may hit nursing. Right now, the unions are silent, people have been emailing them with questions and concerns. I think that even they don't know what to say just yet, so, I am going to hold on to my job by making sure I get rest, go each day and learn as much as I can. I am cross-training in different clinics and will try to get agency assignments to work in mother-baby post partum so that I can be more marketable if push comes to shove. I am not worried about losing my job per se with 13 years of seniority, but the shifting around can be tremendous. Clinic nurses may find themselves suddenly working in psych, inpatient, and working odd shifts in order to avoid being paid overtime.

Another thing I see happening is that suddenly, there will be a surplus of nurses with the layoffs (and those returning to the bedside due to other venues closing to them), rather than a shortage, which will allow management to pay them less. All they have to do is show that experienced nurse the long, long, long line of applicants and say to them that they either accept the crap or walk out of the door with nothing. Sad state of affairs...

pagandeva2000, LPN · Feb 8, 2009

Maybe I missed it, but I bet there will also be a lot of non-practicing nurses that re-enter the nursing field.
I work at a LTC county home and last time times hit hard, they tried to staff as much as they could with LPNs and laid off many of the RNs.....one of the reasons one of the nurse manager here keeps her LPN license current with her RN license.

This is no surprise to me. Many nurses have left the field for greener pastures because they may have had spouses that worked in what they thought were secure positions. In regard to RNs keeping or even challenging the NCLEX-LPN is nothing new. Even my program director of my LPN program told me that she applies for reciporcacy for an LPN license for each state she has visited because of the slim chance that she may decide to move there and wants to be able to work there.

Hey I thought you had to give up your LPN license when you got your RN license. :icon_roll Anyone know?
RN's at my hospital were talking one day about how the hospital is starting to hire so many LVN's to save money and what would come next is that the RN's would lose jobs being replaced by the LVN's. I sure hope not- really puts us LVN's on the spot.

Most states I know do, in fact, allow one to maintain both licenses...the problem may come in if something happens, you are held to the standards of the higher license and then, if found guilty, can lose BOTH. It is interesting that this comes up due to a conversation I had with an RN who I worked with at one of my per diem gigs just today. She has many side jobs, one as part of a visiting nurse agency. I think that she goes to assess new cases, determines the level of care that the patient may need, etc... and occasionally, if possible, if the case needs an RN, she may decide to take first dibs in taking it for herself. She worked out something with another RN where if one cannot make it to do the assessment, they will call the other, and somehow, split the money.

This occurred last month and she asked her collague to go assess the case. The nurse went and did the favor, and along with the collaborative discussion with other agency members, it was decided that the patient can most benefit with the care of an LPN. This nurse happened to have maintained her LPN license for many years and decided to take it for herself, and now, my collague is no longer speaking to this nurse, she is so furious. She feels that this nurse is lowering her nursing standards and is taking a risk if something happens, but I kind of wonder...this is a home care case, this nurse can provide a great deal of attention to this patient, and also...this must be a relatively stable patient with more a more predictable outcome. She must have felt that rather than run around, she would take this case (it must have been a sweet one) because there may be less of a risk to both of her licenses. Apparently, she was more interested in peace of mind than title or money (some is better than none). My collague has never been an LPN, so, this would not have been an option for her, anyhow.

My take on this is that yes, there will be more backstabbing, more reporting, many more things than before. I do believe that taking on more LPNs and releasing more RNs would place us in a bad spot...in these cases, they suddenly expand the LPN role to things that may be allowed by the BON, but this LPN may be rusty or inexperienced in this expanded role; in addition, when things calm down, the LPN falls back, thus is restricted and possible unappreciated again. But with the state of affairs, people may do anything to assure that they can feed their families.

kcochrane · Feb 9, 2009

Hey I thought you had to give up your LPN license when you got your RN license. :icon_roll Anyone know?
RN's at my hospital were talking one day about how the hospital is starting to hire so many LVN's to save money and what would come next is that the RN's would lose jobs being replaced by the LVN's. I sure hope not- really puts us LVN's on the spot.

I would suppose it depends on the state. In NYS you can hold both your LPN and RN. If you look at different nursing magazines, you will find on occasion someone that has numerious titles ...and at the end you will see the LPN. I do also know some that hold both LPNs and CNAs. You just have to continue to renew your license. I plan on keeping my LPN.

coogabooga · Feb 10, 2009

"I'm getting tired of newspaper articles and TV news telling people that healthcare is where the jobs are. I think our job market will be flooded in a year or two."

I think that's the silliest thing I've ever heard. Nurses are needed and this shortage will last for years. Currently the ANA is asking everyone to urge your representatives "to restore the $600 million to address critical health care workforce shortages".

This shortage is real. Sure, elective surgeries and procedures will go down, therefore so with operating room nurses and so forth, but other areas will be bursting at the seams. Plus, if healthcare gets reformed as our new president proposes, we will soon see the workforce even out again, thus, the shortage will continue...

barefootlady, ADN, RN · Feb 11, 2009

While I cannot afford it, probably never will be able to afford it, the word retire sounds better and better to me. Or just go part time, something to get rid of the ever increasing demands and pressure of the business end of nursing. Sure, I know if the facility does not make money the doors will close, but some of the things I see are just terrible. Rooms not getting properly cleaned d/t lack of staff, maintance problems being overlooked, dietary is taking a big hit, less choice on menu and food portions are smaller, snacks are almost nonexsistant, and other supplies just not there when you need them, like tissues and toilet paper. Tape disappears too quickly, no batteries for flashlights, less cups and straws. I could go on and on. Anyone else seeing this?