Ok, I am a nursing student in an RN program and we are currently on rounds at a local hospital. I am also the daughter of a physician and RN, who was taught from a very young age to speak up about things, in a professional manner.
Scenario in point, I was on rounds at the hospital and we were at the nurses station setting up meds and a conversation is starting between 2 doctors who involve us in the conversation. My senior nurse instructor is standing with us doing the meds and hears the whole thing transpire.
Doc 1 says, "Nurses around here have it easy." (my ears burning, mouth is shut)
Doc 2 says, "Yeah, I don't know why they don't prioritize better. If they did they would not have so many complaints about so many things and tasks would be completed." (mouth still shut, face red, glaring at my instructor who is giving me the "PLEASE don't say anything or I will kill you look.")
Doc 1 says, "I should come down here and do my own rounds." (I laughed out loud thus involving myself into a now volatile situation)
Doc 2 turns and says, "Young lady are you alright" (now I could take the moral low road and just lie and say I was talking to my friend) Not me, LOL.
Nursing student (me) says, "I heard your conversation and was little surprised is all." (Nursing instructor is now bright red and praying I am not going to say what she already knows I am)
Doc 1 says, "Oh, what about our private conversation was surprising"
Nursing student says, "My dad went to med school and is a physician and he didn't tell me they had nurse training while they were there" (Nursing instructor slaps her forehead, blinks 400 times, and runs off to find a body bag for me)
Doc 2 chokes then says, "Well I went to medical school and I can surely do any nurses job. Besides you're a student you can't possible know things as of yet.
Doc 1 is standing with his mouth gaping open, speechless.
Nursing student says, "I am sure these nurses would appreciate some assistance. BTW I have to give meds out, would you like to help"
Thus resulting in both of them shaking their heads and walking away.
Now, I realize this conversation could have, and probably should have went a different direction, but it gives me sunburn on my ass when I hear doctors say things like that. Of all places, in FRONT OF the nurses station. That is adding insult to injury. Most of those nurses standing around weren't going to say anything, for obvious reasons, but the idea that they have to put up with that nonsense is enraging to me. I am a foolish nursing student, but I don't believe what those docs did was right, professional, or even tolerable. The fact they BELIEVE the things they were saying was a laugh.
Anyways, do you all have to listen to Docs speak that way on a regular basis?
Specializes in SICU, EMS, Home Health, School Nursing.
Since when can doctors say whatever they want to degrade me and other fellow nurses, but I can't say anything to them for fear of being "insubordinate". The doctors are not my boss. I will show them respect, but I will not take crap from someone being an idiot whether they are a doctor or someone on the street. Doctors are human beings just like nurses are...sometimes I do wonder what planet they are from though...
I am not saying that we should go on this big "I'm better than you" rant, but we need to choose our battles wisely and learn to stand up to someone when its needed and when you do stand up to someone, choose your words wisely.
Well here's the thing......they were having a conversation between the two of them. (Since they chose to have it in front of the nurses' station within your earshot I would dispute how private they wanted it to be), but the conversation was their conversation and they were expressing their opinions, however ignorant and ill-informed they might have been. So you really had no right to do what you did. If they had addressed you or the nurses, that would have been a different matter.
I appreciate your feelings. I am the first person to say that you should not take abuse or disrespect of any kind when it is directed at you.
And to answer your question, no I don't have to listen to docs speak that way. I realize that they don't have a clue about my job but at least they are polite enough to keep it to themselves.
I am glad you said something! So what if they write you up, they were rude and unproffesional and there are other jobs to be had. We have a physiatrist sp? that comes every weekend and makes derogatory comments about our LTC/rehab facility. Even though we could make some improvements, I told him I was tired of hearing it and there were a lot of really good people trying to do their best and working their butts off. It's funny, he hasn't said another word since! Very
What an interesting conversation that was you witnessed! I'm with Angie when she says we have to choose our battles. Although we're all supposed to be "on the same team", docs are unfortunately placed on pedestels and many think they are gods of some sort. Best thing to do is plaster a smile on your face and keep silent. It'll save you a lot of stress and heartache. I've seen and heard of nurses being reported for "insubordination" when indeed they were only standing up for themselves.
Well here's the thing......they were having a conversation between the two of them. (Since they chose to have it in front of the nurses' station within your earshot I would dispute how private they wanted it to be), but the conversation was their conversation and they were expressing their opinions, however ignorant and ill-informed they might have been. So you really had no right to do what you did. If they had addressed you or the nurses, that would have been a different matter.
I appreciate your feelings. I am the first person to say that you should not take abuse or disrespect of any kind when it is directed at you.
And to answer your question, no I don't have to listen to docs speak that way. I realize that they don't have a clue about my job but at least they are polite enough to keep it to themselves.
when she laughed they could have ignored her, since they didnt, i think they were doing what they were doing on purpose, and bit off more than they could chew......i would have laughed my butt off, in private of course....
Specializes in Med-Surg, , Home health, Education.
I applaud you for speaking up. I've spoken up many times and have yet to be called to a managers office or written up. I get along with all of the docs and we work collaboratively. Nurses need doctors and doctors need nurses. I know I wouldn't have had the courage to speak up as a student but now that I'm a little older and wiser (I think) I couldn't bite my tongue with that conversation within ear shot.
I am also the daughter of a physician and RN, who was taught from a very young age to speak up about things, in a professional manner.
...
(I laughed out loud thus involving myself into a now volatile situation)
...
Nursing student says, "My dad went to med school and is a physician and he didn't tell me they had nurse training while they were there"
This is a good example of the old adage "Two wrongs don't make a right."
While the physicians were wrong in what they said and where they said it -- you're response was not professional and did little, if anything, to help the situation.
Knowing when and how to speak up is just as important as having the "gumption" to do so. Reacting to an "overheard" conversation is rarely appropriate in a hospital setting and "smart alec" comments are unprofessional with people who are not your friends.
If you are going to become the leader and nursing champion that you appear to want to be, you will need to learn how to maximize your political effectiveness. That will probably mean that you will have to learn to more professional ways of confronting physicians when appropriate.
We need nurses (like you) to continue the struggles of our profession for the respect we deserve. But acting like a smart alec with physicians with whom you have no previous friendly relationship isn't going to help.
Specializes in Med/Surge, Psych, LTC, Home Health.
I have never heard such a conversation, but I'm sure many docs that I have worked with think just like those doctors but maybe don't have the audacity to say it all out loud like that.
Kudos to you for speaking up. I don't know that I would have said anything either, but I was never taught to speak up like you were. I was taught to ignore people when they upset me.
Specializes in Med/Surge, Psych, LTC, Home Health.
Well here's the thing......they were having a conversation between the two of them. (Since they chose to have it in front of the nurses' station within your earshot I would dispute how private they wanted it to be), but the conversation was their conversation and they were expressing their opinions, however ignorant and ill-informed they might have been. So you really had no right to do what you did. If they had addressed you or the nurses, that would have been a different matter.
I appreciate your feelings. I am the first person to say that you should not take abuse or disrespect of any kind when it is directed at you.
And to answer your question, no I don't have to listen to docs speak that way. I realize that they don't have a clue about my job but at least they are polite enough to keep it to themselves.
Hmmmm... well technically she didn't actually butt in on their conversation. She could have been laughing about anything; they pretty much brought her into the conversation.
I say they were asking for it. For a nurse to butt in to the conversation. They absolutely should not have been having that type of conversation in earshot of the nurses station.
Specializes in Med/Surge, Psych, LTC, Home Health.
Okay, one more thing and then I'm done... sorry! I got a new coffeemaker for Christmas and I just made some fresh Colombian and I'm a little wiry right now!
I wanted to agree with, I think it was llg... the comment "I didn't know docs were taught to be nurses in school". That probably was a bit... much.
Still, again I really don't blame you for speaking up, overall.
Hmmmm... well technically she didn't actually butt in on their conversation. She could have been laughing about anything; they pretty much brought her into the conversation.
I say they were asking for it. For a nurse to butt in to the conversation. They absolutely should not have been having that type of conversation in earshot of the nurses station.
I'm sorry I disagree. They were being a couple of jerks yes; but that doesn't mean she had to jump in with both feet......... and I think she realizes that. I appreciate her advocacy on behalf of nurses but that wasn't the way to do it. Again, I'm the first person to say that we don't have to take abuse or belittlement. I just do not think the way the student responded in this case was the right way to do it.
Specializes in Peds, OB-GYN, CCU, ER, Corrections.
Okay, maybe you should start thinking about that 2 be on the end of your screenname. Until you pass your boards you are NOT a licensed nurse, you do NOT work at that hospital, and what that doctor said should not have affected you in any way whatsoever. But should you ever begin to work at that hospital, you have marked yourself. Don't get me wrong, I have stood up to many doctors over MY patients. Because that's what a nurse is--a patient advocate. And if you feel what the doctor has said or done can have a bad patient outcome, then you have every right to stand up. But if he just dissed your profession 2 be!!!!, so what! Good doctors know how valuable nurses are. You running your mouth didn't make nurses look any better, it just made you look worse. It also embarrassed your instructor. Obviously you never learned the sticks and stones rule. Choose your battles carefully. And just so you know, you chose wrong this time.
Christie RN2006
572 Posts
Since when can doctors say whatever they want to degrade me and other fellow nurses, but I can't say anything to them for fear of being "insubordinate". The doctors are not my boss. I will show them respect, but I will not take crap from someone being an idiot whether they are a doctor or someone on the street. Doctors are human beings just like nurses are...sometimes I do wonder what planet they are from though...
I am not saying that we should go on this big "I'm better than you" rant, but we need to choose our battles wisely and learn to stand up to someone when its needed and when you do stand up to someone, choose your words wisely.