The Circumcision Discussion

[jmspeach]

I know this can be a HUGE debate, and I'm not looking to start any arguments. I was just wondering as you are OB nurses. I'm expecting a boy in July and not sure if we should circ. or not. My husband says yes, it's better medically in the long run. My gpa who just turned 70 had to have a circ. due to endless complications lately.

As nurses in this area, is the medication that they use good? And what are some questions to ask my Dr. about it. I already know that my hospital i'll be at uses a med. when they perform it, I"m just wondering what you all think.

Thanks

Jen :)

[Elvish, BSN, DNP, RN, NP]

Since even the small "cut" on a woman takes away her ability to come to orgasm . .that is different I guess.

But does it always??

I'm not arguing with you. I know we agree on about 99% of this discussion, if not 100.

I can understand why people would take offense at that, and I'm sorry if it came across that way. I don't think people who choose to circ are necessarily bad parents. But I do fault medical societies in this country who continue to allow it to be a routine option.

[k-t-did]

you wouldn't walk into a room and say it, but you have no problem coming into this forum and saying it, yet we are still real people, capable of being insulted just like your patients. I would hypothesize that the majority of mothers on the board chose circ. And you accused us of mutilating our children, who I guarantee you are every bit as precious to us as yours are to you. . Far from respectful. Perhaps your position in this community relieves you of the duty to be respectful to other members?

[Atheos]

[color=#003399]bris milah

judaism views body and soul as holy partners in serving g-d. therefore, the bris is performed on the most physical part, for all of man is holy before his creator. bris milah joins the forces of body and soul together in serving g-d.

in all fairness steph, just because something is part of a religious belief (generally speaking) doesn't mean it isn't ridiculous.

i'm not saying anyone's religious belief on circumcision is ridiculous but being religious does not mean it isn't ridiculous.

being religious does give it a free pass. you can argue that the cutting of girls is cultural which is as important as religious traditions.

so... if circumcision is ok because it is religious then cutting girls is ok because it's cultural. if that logic is true then hey, beheading is acceptable because it is regional and certain behaviors can be ok because they are racial and everything else is ok.

when are we going to grow up and realize that religious, spiritual, culture, tradition and every other 'reason' does not automatically make something ok. belief does not make truth steph. belief does not make right either.

the jihad on the foreskin should be ended.

[firstyearstudent]

Saying someone's body has been mutilated is a judgement and depends on the values of any given community. One man's mutilation is another man's way cool body modification. I don't believe in circumcision of children because, as a parent, I personally don't feel I have a right to make any significant body modification to my minor child without his informed consent. I wouldn't get my infant daughter's ears pierced, either. Or get my children tattoos. And despite the fact that the overwhelming majority of men do not have sexual dysfunction due to circumcision, I don't have convincing evidence that it doesn't affect sensitivity or sexual responsiveness, so it stays on until there's a good reason for it not be there.

When my son's are 18 (or perhaps younger if they whine enough) they can get their foreskins cut off if they want and then get a Prince Albert stud rammed through their glans if they want that, too. Until then, forget it!

As far as dads complaining they want their son's member to look like theirs, 1) In my family my husband doesn't whip his member out and compare it with my sons' regularly, 2) when my sons have seen their dad's member they were more "traumatized" by pubic hair and my husband has no intention of shaving.

[AirforceRN, RN]

Ahhh, I just couldn't stay away...I tried...really I tried.

Webster's Dictionary

Mutilation:

1 : to cut up or alter radically so as to make imperfect

2 : to cut off or permanently destroy a limb or essential part of

I'd say the definition fits, although I suppose the words "imperfect" and "essential" can be debated.

Once again, this thread seems to be diving into the realm of personal attacks. We all have our opinions and we are entitled to them, regardless of our position or lack thereof on this board. Just because Elvish doesn't agree with you, or you don't agree with her or her terminology doesn't give you the right to attack her...that's just rude. This board grants us a certain amount of anonymity and allows us to share feelings and opinions that we would never be allowed to disclose at work.

My personal advice (if I can be so bold) is for both of you to take your discussion to the PM side of things so it doesn't have to be aired publicly

[Spidey's mom, ADN, BSN, RN]

you wouldn't walk into a room and say it, but you have no problem coming into this forum and saying it, yet we are still real people, capable of being insulted just like your patients. i would hypothesize that the majority of mothers on the board chose circ. and you accused us of mutilating our children, who i guarantee you are every bit as precious to us as yours are to you. . far from respectful. perhaps your position in this community relieves you of the duty to be respectful to other members?

i agree with your post except for the last sentence. elvish is always careful to listen - she is also passionate about many causes and her posts reflect that passion. she doesn't use her position as "staff". truly.

i can certainly see how people can think it circumcision is mutilating (i personally wish i had won over my husband and ex-husband). . .however i don't agree with calling parents names.

and she didn't make the comment you and i remarked about - it was post #924 by janism:

"the only reason i can see for circumcision is to make parents happy. i refused to mutilate my boys and their father is also 'intact'. of course they were taught strict hygiene-they would have whether or not they were circumcised."

i think we as a community can disagree on the issue - but you and i agree that someone shouldn't say things like the part in red above.

steph

[Spidey's mom, ADN, BSN, RN]

Saying someone's body has been mutilated is a judgement and depends on the values of any given community. One man's mutilation is another man's way cool body modification. I don't believe in circumcision of children because, as a parent, I personally don't feel I have a right to make any significant body modification to my minor child without his informed consent. I wouldn't get my infant daughter's ears pierced, either. Or get my children tattoos. And despite the fact that the overwhelming majority of men do not have sexual dysfunction due to circumcision, I don't have convincing evidence that it doesn't affect sensitivity or sexual responsiveness, so it stays on until there's a good reason for it not be there.

When my son's are 18 (or perhaps younger if they whine enough) they can get their foreskins cut off if they want and then get a Prince Albert stud rammed through their glans if they want that, too. Until then, forget it!

As far as dads complaining they want their son's member to look like theirs, 1) In my family my husband doesn't whip his member out and compare it with my sons' regularly, 2) when my sons have seen their dad's member they were more "traumatized" by pubic hair and my husband has no intention of shaving.

My boys learned to pee from standing by dad in the bathroom and peeing together. They weren't traumatized. And we are loggers - we pee in the woods - this story is also on this long long thread (Airforce . . .I wiinced when I saw this thread come up again;)) . . . .but #2 son and dad were out in the woods and had to pee so got out of the pickup and over by a tree and peed . . . with son looking over and saying "You're a really good pee'er dad".

steph

[hypocaffeinemia, BSN, RN]

you wouldn't walk into a room and say it, but you have no problem coming into this forum and saying it, yet we are still real people, capable of being insulted just like your patients. I would hypothesize that the majority of mothers on the board chose circ. And you accused us of mutilating our children, who I guarantee you are every bit as precious to us as yours are to you. . Far from respectful. Perhaps your position in this community relieves you of the duty to be respectful to other members?

I'm a guy and I can safely from the anonymity and objectivity of this forum call it mutilation.

We have both female and male genital mutilation in this world. One's illegal in the U.S., one's the status quo. Go figure. I make no apologies to anybody offended by pointing out what it is.

[2curlygirls]

And why do people keep doing it? Mostly because we want Junior to have the same unnecessary surgery his daddy did. To heck with the risks and pain!

I don't get it.

[k-t-did]

With all due respect, Airforce Rn, who attacked whom? I just expressed surprise at a lack of respect from those who basically accused a large percentage of this community of mutilating our children. And I apologize if I addressed this to the wrong poster.

[SmilingBluEyes]

I think we, in some cases, have to agree to disagree. For some, circumcision IS mutilation----it certainly is the surgical altering of a very delicate part without the consent of the boy undergoing this procedure. It is not of medical necessity in most cases at the time of its performance; even the APA put out a statement to that affect. However, for religious or other concerns (tradition being a debatable one), people seek to have this procedure done for their kids. No one here wants to be considered a child-abuser due to making this choice.

I think it helps me to try to get past the anger and just see what the other person is saying, not just his/her words. I really work to read carefully his/her POSITION. And then at the end of the day, I can agree to disagree without resorting to insults (direct attacks) and counterattacks.

That is about the best we can do here, failing to come to agreement on this heated issue. Education is key, folks! Evidenced based practices rely on this.

[JanisM]

I didn't realize my words would anger so many people, and I did not mean to accuse anyone of not loving their children. But I stand by the fact that my children were born perfect, and any changes to their bodies would have been a form of mutilation - to ME, at least. I would never accuse someone of being a bad parent for doing this, as many of my family have circumcised their boys and they are all loving, wonderful parents. It's just my personal feelings on the topic. Fair enough?