Termination From Employer For Refusing EUV

[RaineyRN7]

I am an Oncology nurse working for a hospital for more than 13 years. I live in California and there is now a mandate in place that is requiring me to be vaccinated before Sept. 30th or I will be terminated from my job. Not only do I not feel comfortable to receive a EUV that no long term studies have been documented because it is too new and not FDA approved but I have also witnessed friends as well as patients having severe side effects after receiving vaccination.

I am unclear how an employer has the LEGAL RIGHT to ask me personal questions about my religious beliefs or medical information (vaccination status), where are my HIPAA Rights. Employer vaccine mandates are subject to religious accommodation under the Title VII of the Civil rights act. For personal reasons I will be submitting for religious exemption to hopefully prevent me from losing my job. 

I'm not sure what the outcome will be but I am planning to seek employment elsewhere in case I do lose my job and likely it won't be in healthcare. I don't know if this will be the end of my nursing career and if it is I feel extremely sad about that. 

What happened to the phrase " my body my choice " ? 

I will not be forced to do anything to my body that I do not choose.

 Through scripture we know that God values our bodies. Our bodies are said to be a temple of the Holy Spirit, and we are called to take care of and honor God's temple. God's words lead use to use our bodies and the gifts He has given us to achieve the will of God.

[iNurs5, CNA]

On 8/19/2021 at 1:50 PM, jive turkey said:

I'm not making a case against

Quote

vaccination when I say that this would be a potential problem regardless as the vaccinated can still spread

 It would make sense to rapid test everybody regardless of the goal is to stop it.  The power of quarantine 

You're not paying attention. If getting vaccinated and do NOT getting vaccinated had about the same or equal rate of benefits, then it makes sense not to acquire it. I don't have vulnerable families, but I work in HC.

 My older adults passed away from an old age (90-104 age range). I wouldn't worry about them, too. Our family take care of our own. Never one of our older men and women in nursing homes.  Not because we distrust people, my aunts know that some nurses don't care really. 

Also, the PCR test or rapid test, I've never tested positive with that even those times I was under the weather. I was never sick to flu, common colds, and fever. I didn't have infection (uncomplicated) until the COVID-19. 

[jive turkey]

On 8/19/2021 at 1:56 PM, Honyebee said:

You're not paying attention. If getting vaccinated and do NOT getting vaccinated had about equal rate of benefits, then it makes sense not to acquire it.

Also, the PCR test or rapid test, I've never tested positive with that even those times I was under the weather. I was never sick to flu, common colds, and fever. I didn't have infection (uncomplicated) until the COVID-19. 

You're not paying attention either. 

You don't have to address me that way, we can share differences of opinions peacefully

The very first sentence I said was I'm not making a case against vaccinating.

More tests, more quarantine, less spread

[iNurs5, CNA]

On 8/19/2021 at 2:06 PM, jive turkey said:

You're not paying attention either. 

You don't have to address me that way, we can share differences of opinions peacefully

The very first sentence I said was I'm not making a case against vaccinating.

More tests, more quarantine, less spread

No, you made it sound that the PCR test is accurate. It doesn't tell anything during the contagion period. It only detects the presence of the virus. The vaccine can help better in depressing the spread. 

How many negative pressure rooms do you have available to contain the viruses?

If people don't like vaccines, they can work elsewhere.

[iNurs5, CNA]

What does it tell you about the effects of quarantine?

[iNurs5, CNA]

How would you know your patients didn't catch the viruses then give them to you, and you give them to your community? 

Why bother washing hands and wearing gloves?  Those are chemicals, too.

[jive turkey]

On 8/19/2021 at 2:09 PM, Honyebee said:

No, you made it sound that the PCR test is accurate. It doesn't tell anything during the contagion period. It only detects the presence of the virus. The vaccine can help better in depressing the spread. 

How many negative pressure rooms do you have available to contain the viruses?

If people don't like vaccines, they can work elsewhere.

I said nothing of the sort.  You're taking what I said to be a competition between testing and vaccination.  Someone suggested testing would be a problem.  I advocate for it, vaccine or not.   

[hppygr8ful, ASN, RN, EMT-I]

On 8/19/2021 at 1:10 PM, LokelaniRN said:

I also want to add, I am not an anti vaxxer. I got the Moderna vaccine. What I am saying it is stupid to fire people in the middle of a nursing shortage. A shortage created by hospital administrators prior to covid.

Instead of a knee jerk reaction to firing people, test the unvaccinated  prior to each shift. All it takes is a $10 test per person.

Will you please stop stating that there is a nursing shortage - There is no nursing shortage nor has there been in the 29 years I have been a nurse. There are hundreds of new nurses ready to go to work but they can't get hired so there really is no shortage.

Also usung your $10 per test per person per shirt does not play out. Many nurse work more than 1 shift per week. The average is 3 shifts per week.Let's say 1 nurse works three shift per week. That becomes $30/week. multiply that by 52 work weeks and you get $1560 per year. If an averavge to large hospital employs say 200 nurses not counting all the ancillary staff that must also be tested the figure goes to 312,000.00/year. Plus rapid PCR tests are not really that accurate so their value as a diagnostic tool is limited. now lets say there are also around 200 non-licensed staff working in the labs, on the floors, in the kitchens ect .. we are now over half a million dollars. California hospitle's (at least in the system I work for) have made being vaccinated a condition of employment  and  are not firing people for not getting vaccinated the employee is abandoning their job rather that meet new conditions of employment.  This is all perfectly legal in at "At Will" employment state!

It's a shame that seemingly educated people could not step up and do the right thing resulting in the right thing becoming a mandated thing. 

It sort of reminds me of a movie called "Idiocracy" which is a comedy about what happens when a society is overrun by "Stupid" people. Last time I checked it was on several streaming services. 

Hppy

[iNurs5, CNA]

13 hours ago, jive turkey said:

I would totally support a testing mandate. That would be an effective way to stop the spread because one you know you're positive, you can go quarantine. It would be beneficial if rapid home tests were made available, large numbers.  Many places make you wait days to get an appointment.  Not all, but many.  

Mandates this early in the game have the consequence of turning people off.  Pro vax people often discount the perceptions science and findings of others resorting to bullying, shaming, and declaring a need for force. I've seen many times where this creates resistance rather than compliance.  

I'd like to see more effort to educate and persuade rather than bully and force.  

What bullying? People who reject medical safety is a psychopath in my world. 

Should people call these antivaccine HC people insidious deceptive and psychos who gamble the health of their patients and people?  Probably, they enjoy to watch people suffer. 

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

3 hours ago, jive turkey said:

People use to say that when employers discriminated, paid low wages,  and provided unsafe work conditions to name a few. I don't mean to pay semantics with you. Some people use the "they can do whatever they want" argument because the employer is doing something they agree with.  If the employer said "we're not hiring vaccinated people" I bet we would see less of the they can do what they want.  In this instance, the law doesn't prohibit them from requiring vaccination. In that case,  you're right, they do it because they want to and because they can.   In my personal opinion I think it has a lot to do with a fear of being the one company that didn't mandate it, somebody gets sick and tries to Sue that company for not mandating it like everybody else.  

I think our illustrious southern states have proven what happens when hospitals don't require vaccines or masking.  At this point, WHATEVER it takes is OK with me.  I do not want to be at the mercy of idiots.  And I don't mean physically - I can protect myself.  But being pro-disease for something that means kids can't rely on being in school in person means that they are leaning the world is a dangerous, unstable place because no adult is smart enough to help them.  Businesses can't open full-force because employees are too nervous about having to be home taking care of sick kids or kids who's schools have closed down in-person classes.....again.  Whatever it takes.  I don't care anymore about anyone's freedom to make the world sick.

[DeeAngel]

 We do not need people selfishly infecting innocent patients

  It’s offensive to even hear 

[jive turkey]

38 minutes ago, subee said:

I think our illustrious southern states have proven what happens when hospitals don't require vaccines or masking.  At this point, WHATEVER it takes is OK with me.  I do not want to be at the mercy of idiots.  And I don't mean physically - I can protect myself.  But being pro-disease for something that means kids can't rely on being in school in person means that they are leaning the world is a dangerous, unstable place because no adult is smart enough to help them.  Businesses can't open full-force because employees are too nervous about having to be home taking care of sick kids or kids who's schools have closed down in-person classes.....again.  Whatever it takes.  I don't care anymore about anyone's freedom to make the world sick.

I'd like to ask you and anyone else reading an interesting question on a philosophical level and being totally neutral.  

If unable to answer without being rude or launching insults please ignore. 

I'll start by asking:

Would you agree everyone should vaccinate so the vaccinated can enjoy the freedom of interacting with the world without fear of infection?

[anewsns]

I think if an employee is actively putting their patients at risk of harm they are well within their right to terminate you. It is most certainly still your choice not to get vaccinated, just like it is an impaired nurses choice to keep drinking once they get fired.