ok i dont really know where to start so i will try to make this short and sweet. i was terminated after nine years on the job on thursday due to "excessive absenteeism". mind you i have not called off work since october of 2007.
when all of this started i was pulled into the managers office and given a paper to sign that basically said that if i called in again i was terminated. she just happened to skip the offical protocol and i was never given a verbal or written warning.
i signed it and went on about my business. i asked her SEVERAL times for a copy and was never given one. that is just how she is, will tell you what you want to hear and then never give you what you asked for.
in january (i had been off for a while due to surgery) i was called into her office again. she and her "asst" basically bereated me and accused me of refusing to discharge a patient, among other things. she used the "f" word several times screaming in my face telling me she wished she could fire me then, and that all of my co-workers hated me. i ended up in the hospital for chest pain and svt that night. i was to work the next day and i used my "personal" (safe) day for that.
after that i reported her to our hr department and had written about 14 pages in response to her one. i had had enough of her and a few others bullying ways, constant comments about me personally, heavy assignments, etc.
after that i just put it all behind me. went to work my two days and shut my mouth. after a while things seemed to be going ok......
about a month ago she told me she wanted me to do our facilitys program which had to do with extra education and things to get a pay raise, and also to be on the unit leadership committee and pain resource nurse. i really felt that things were looking up and getting better. she also wanted me to take the pccn exam also. when she approached me with this i asked her about the absenteeism issues and if they would hold me back from doing the ladder program (you cannot be in any disiplinary probation to do it). she flat at looked at me and told me NO that that was over with and i was out of that. about two weeks ago i asked her for copies of those dates that i had missed. she said again that I DIDNT NEED TO WORRY ABOUT IT.
well, this week i got very sick very suddenly. tonsils the size of golf balls, fever of 102. would you go to work? this was wednesday that i called off.
on thursday at 3pm i got a call from her and she said sorry to tell you this but i have to terminate you. heres the number to hr if you have any questions.
i point blank asked her why she told me i had nothing to worry about and she FLAT OUT DENIED
remind them that 9 yrs of service is indeed, an implied contract.
Unfortunately this is not the case. Length of employment will have no bearing on whether it will be deemed an implied contract. This will only be considered if the employer was foolish enough to not have the employee sign a paper stating explicitly that they are hired 'at-will' with an explanation of what that is. Undoubtedly that is included in the form that you signed when you received your handbook. They may say it is acknowledgment of handbook receipt but if you look at it, it will say something near this... 'This handbook is not a contract. Employees are at-will. They may terminate employment at any time for any reason. The employer may also terminate employment at any time for any reason.'
The problem with this is that no matter what you claim they say, even if they say it, this contract that you signed will trump said claims. Another problem is that an employee that 'wins' the right to keep their job where there was an implied contract also becomes bound to that contract. This means that you can no longer quit at will. If you argued they implied you would be there for a year and a judge accepts it, but after 6 months you want to quit, they can sue you.
Would you really want to work at a place that doesn't follow their own handbook or is hostile? I say run... You are in healthcare. You can get another job that is probably better in the time it takes to fill out an application. :)
Specializes in FNP, Peds, Epilepsy, Mgt., Occ. Ed.
At this point, I am starting to feel like a target was painted on my backside.
Point of all this is......when the workplace suddenly becomes hostile, and you are starting to experience harassment and start getting that feeling of "being a target" it really is time to move on, adios, hast la vista baby, bye, let's do this again sometime, don't call me I'll call you...just go.
Usually, when you get that feeling that there's a target painted on your back or backside, that's because there is.
Learning to read the handwriting on the wall is a valuable skill.
Unfortunately this is not the case. Length of employment will have no bearing on whether it will be deemed an implied contract. This will only be considered if the employer was foolish enough to not have the employee sign a paper stating explicitly that they are hired 'at-will' with an explanation of what that is. '
stanley, you have been misinformed.
i am speaking from personal experience, as well as what a labor law atty told me.
when i sued for wrongful termination (living in an at-will state), she used those very words, that working there for sev'l yrs was an "implied contract".
now ea case will be different, i get that.
but up until the final months of my employment, my record had been flawless.
to terminate a long-time employee w/a sudden paper trail, seems suspect and ultimately is wrongful.
it's important for employees to know this, w/all other circumstances considered, of course.
i am speaking from personal experience, as well as what a labor law atty told me.
when i sued for wrongful termination (living in an at-will state), she used those very words, that working there for sev'l yrs was an "implied contract".
now ea case will be different, i get that.
but up until the final months of my employment, my record had been flawless.
to terminate a long-time employee w/a sudden paper trail, seems suspect and ultimately is wrongful.
it's important for employees to know this, w/all other circumstances considered, of course.
and btw, i won... big time.
leslie
I would beg to differ with the attorney...that sounds like something that might be specific to your state, but that doesn't apply to the majority of them.
Most states are "employment at will", which means they don't even have to give you a reason, or build up a paper trail at all. All an employer has to do is call you into the office, say "your services are no longer needed" and that's it.
The REASON employers get successfully sued by former employees is because some managers and HR people mistakenly think that you have to have a paper trail before you get rid of someone...as politically incorrect as it is to say...as long as your terminations don't follow a pattern of getting rid of mostly single mothers, or mostly minorities, or mostly older people...you can legally get away with it.
When people reach the age of (it's either 42 or 45), they fall into the age protected class that is regulated by the EEOC. That means if you have an impecable employment record and then are suddenly targeted...then it's a REASONABLE conclusion that it's your age (and along with it, probably a higher salary) that they are focusing on.
Your attorney's interpretation is probably incorrect. It's not an implied contract...however, it does raise REASONABLE suspicion that an employee, the longer that they are employed, and the better their employment record is, that if they fall into a protected class, you can successfully sue if terminated.
If you won..did the "court" tell you that it was an implied contract? Because that would have been part of their decision if it was.
When she wrote her resignation letter, she cited "hostile work environment" as a prime reason for resigning, and it was handed back toher as "unacceptable" She asked why, and said that it just woudn't fly and to just do as you're told. She was basically force to write a resignation letter that said "I resign effective today." with no reason given.
THIS...I would only have done if there was a gun to my head.
Do you know who resignation letters protect? They are for the company, NOT the employee.
If you just didn't show up for work today, you can easily go to to the unemployment office and claim that you were involuntarily terminated that day for no reason...and yes, you can collect unemployment benefits as long as you were not fired for "gross misconduct", which means stealing, failing a drug test, etc.
What are they doing to do if you don't write a new resignation letter when they already told you that you were going to leave that day? Fire you?
If I turned in a resignation letter, and they told me it was "unacceptable" and to "write another one"...and especially if they told me that they wouldn't allow me to work out a two-week notice, I would have taken the letter back when it was offered and said, "Well, since you wouldn't let me resign then I have obviously been fired."
...and then WALK out the door.
What are they going to do? Arrest you?
Yeah, they can have so-called witnesses claiming that you were lying, but I would bet a fired Administrator and a DON would back you up.
i am speaking from personal experience, as well as what a labor law atty told me.
when i sued for wrongful termination (living in an at-will state), she used those very words, that working there for sev'l yrs was an "implied contract".
now ea case will be different, i get that.
but up until the final months of my employment, my record had been flawless.
to terminate a long-time employee w/a sudden paper trail, seems suspect and ultimately is wrongful.
it's important for employees to know this, w/all other circumstances considered, of course.
and btw, i won... big time.
leslie
Open ended contracts never expire. If you ever signed that kind of statement you will not win. The only way you could win is if there is some other reason why they fired you or the employer did or said something that nullified the signed contract and made it an implied contract.
A good example is saying your 'Yearly salary is X dollars' can be construed as an implied contract. If they say we will hire you and then evaluate you after a year then that could also be construed as an implied contract.
The problem is that nursing staff as a whole have gotten this idea that things are different for them. A lot of us seem to think the rules are different or that we are a special class of employees. Anyone that has ever had a 'Corporate' job will most likely know the truth of the matter. Employees can and will be terminated at will. The only way to avoid that is to join a union.
Open ended contracts never expire. If you ever signed that kind of statement you will not win. The only way you could win is if there is some other reason why they fired you or the employer did or said something that nullified the signed contract and made it an implied contract.
A good example is saying your 'Yearly salary is X dollars' can be construed as an implied contract. If they say we will hire you and then evaluate you after a year then that could also be construed as an implied contract.
The problem is that nursing staff as a whole have gotten this idea that things are different for them. A lot of us seem to think the rules are different or that we are a special class of employees. Anyone that has ever had a 'Corporate' job will most likely know the truth of the matter. Employees can and will be terminated at will. The only way to avoid that is to join a union.
...and the union needs to be growing. Everyone on this board complains about staffing, poor pay at some hospitals, horrible conditions, bad situations that nurses are put in, etc.
Unions don't fix everything, but it's better than nothing. Some hospitals take care of their employees but most don't.
When I graduate, Benefits will be the #1 factor that I will be looking at.
I would beg to differ with the attorney...that sounds like something that might be specific to your state, but that doesn't apply to the majority of them.
Most states are "employment at will", which means they don't even have to give you a reason, or build up a paper trail at all. All an employer has to do is call you into the office, say "your services are no longer needed" and that's it.
The REASON employers get successfully sued by former employees is because some managers and HR people mistakenly think that you have to have a paper trail before you get rid of someone...as politically incorrect as it is to say...as long as your terminations don't follow a pattern of getting rid of mostly single mothers, or mostly minorities, or mostly older people...you can legally get away with it.
When people reach the age of (it's either 42 or 45), they fall into the age protected class that is regulated by the EEOC. That means if you have an impecable employment record and then are suddenly targeted...then it's a REASONABLE conclusion that it's your age (and along with it, probably a higher salary) that they are focusing on.
Your attorney's interpretation is probably incorrect. It's not an implied contract...however, it does raise REASONABLE suspicion that an employee, the longer that they are employed, and the better their employment record is, that if they fall into a protected class, you can successfully sue if terminated.
If you won..did the "court" tell you that it was an implied contract? Because that would have been part of their decision if it was.
if you do some research, many at-will states are finding that being "at-will", is not sufficient.
progressive discipline policies stated in your p&p:
any verbal sentiments expressed betw employer/employee have been basis of implied contracts;
and sev'l states are even questioning and expounding on the semantics and ambiguities:
"Eleven of the U.S. states recognize the "good faith and fair dealing" exception to employment termination. This means that in every employment relationship, the employer needs to act in a fair manner and that discharging an employee without "just cause" or due to maliciousness or baid faith is prohibited."
"...the Court held that "employers may have an implied contractual obligation not to discharge employees without just cause, based on expressed terms of an employment agreement or an employer's legitimate expectations derived from the employer's policy statement." Going further, the Court found that "oral statements" made during a hiring interview to the effect as long as he did his job" was sufficient to create a binding contract. Going still further, the court focused on the "environment" of the workplace:
It is enough that the employer chooses, presumably in his own interest, to create an environment which the employee believes, whatever the personnel policies and practices, they are established and official at any given time, purport to be fair, and are applied consistently and uniformly to each employee. The employer has then created a situation "instinct with obligation".
"Former employees can argue that an implied contract exists, even when there is no written contract, which protects employees against dismissal as long as they are doing acceptable work."
____________________________________________
there is much info out there re: implied contracts in at-will states.
Open ended contracts never expire. If you ever signed that kind of statement you will not win. The only way you could win is if there is some other reason why they fired you or the employer did or said something that nullified the signed contract and made it an implied contract.
A good example is saying your 'Yearly salary is X dollars' can be construed as an implied contract. If they say we will hire you and then evaluate you after a year then that could also be construed as an implied contract.
The problem is that nursing staff as a whole have gotten this idea that things are different for them. A lot of us seem to think the rules are different or that we are a special class of employees. Anyone that has ever had a 'Corporate' job will most likely know the truth of the matter. Employees can and will be terminated at will. The only way to avoid that is to join a union.
you're right in the fact that there are sev'l ways in which being employed can be construed as an "implied contract".
Ok I am sorry this happened to you as I was recently terminated from my job of 10 years. What these places are trying to do is get the long term experienced nurses out who will refuse pts and staffing levels and get these new grads that don't know or don't have any experience and they think they can get away with it. Its crap. I suddenly had 3 float staff complain about me after my manager got ticked off because I didn't do the rounding for outcomes for a quarter (I was the only one doing them therefore she didn't have any and it makes her look bad). So all of a sudden they find these nurses (who have never worked on that floor) who complain that they didn't get lunch until 330 (well sometimes I didn't even get lunch as charge) and they didn't even tell me they needed help. So I know how you feel. I am still trying to get over it. I feel like they bs'd me and its hard to NOT say anything about it at an interview. I have only had 2. its been a month. Sometimes I feel like I don't even want to do nursing anymore as a hospital nurse is all I have done. So I am with ya on that. Hope things get better and your better off without them.
I don't think I would be comfortable working for this manager. Maybe this is a blessing in disguise for you? The great thing about our profession is this......We can always find work. If you really feel the need to be vindicated, set up a meeting with the Director of Nursing at your facility. Let your side of the situation be heard. Sounds like the manager skipped a few important steps with this whole situation. There are policies that need to be followed. Doesn't sound like she did that. You have a right to those copies you requested. And you never got them.
First of all, I am so sorry this has happened to you. It sounds like a horrible situation, and best you got away from there before anything else happened, even though it wasn't under ideal circumstance. Your health and well being are of the utmost importance, above and beyond any job. I sincerely wish you the best of luck in finding a better job, and from the sound of, that shouldn't be too difficult. Take comfort that karma is indeed a boomerang, and what goes around comes around. Take care and best wishes.
Atheos
2,098 Posts
Unfortunately this is not the case. Length of employment will have no bearing on whether it will be deemed an implied contract. This will only be considered if the employer was foolish enough to not have the employee sign a paper stating explicitly that they are hired 'at-will' with an explanation of what that is. Undoubtedly that is included in the form that you signed when you received your handbook. They may say it is acknowledgment of handbook receipt but if you look at it, it will say something near this... 'This handbook is not a contract. Employees are at-will. They may terminate employment at any time for any reason. The employer may also terminate employment at any time for any reason.'
The problem with this is that no matter what you claim they say, even if they say it, this contract that you signed will trump said claims. Another problem is that an employee that 'wins' the right to keep their job where there was an implied contract also becomes bound to that contract. This means that you can no longer quit at will. If you argued they implied you would be there for a year and a judge accepts it, but after 6 months you want to quit, they can sue you.
Would you really want to work at a place that doesn't follow their own handbook or is hostile? I say run... You are in healthcare. You can get another job that is probably better in the time it takes to fill out an application. :)