Terminated from 1st job :(

Rdy4Nursing · Aug 11, 2010

I have worked in HR for a very long time and I can tell you in today's market, where HR dept's are receiving 100's of applicants, a termination is almost always discarded. I would highly reccomend you contact the hospital and ask to change your status to "resigned in lieu of termination", you most likely will not be eligible for rehire at that same hospital but it will help you seek employment elsewhere. You will most likely have to tell potential employers that it was a resignation in lieu of termination vs. just a resignation, but it will at least get you to the interview so you can tell your side of the story. Side note: the people who have resigned in lieu of term that get hired are the ones that tell their story with accountability and recognition of the lesson learned. Those who play the blame game and claim "its not fair" are the ones who certainly do not get hired. Good Luck - this too shall pass! :)

leslie :-D · Aug 11, 2010

Finally, faced with a situation where termination is a certainty, ask for the consideration of a resignation effective immediately, as Nurses have a hard time justifying unemployment compensation, and you can still use the employer in your history.

while i understand their grounds for termination, the bottom line is your inexperience came and bit you in the butt.

if you haven't learned already, just know that notifying appropriate personnel (doctor, cn, nm, etc) then meticulously documenting everything, will be your saving grace in future employment.

if you don't want to sue for wrongful termination, an attorney can still negotiate changing your termination to a resignation.

and if this happens, your chance of being employed has now skyrocketed to a near-certain level.

i'm truly sorry this happened to you.:hug:

and if you haven't gotten nsg insurance....

well...you know what you should do.:)

leslie

Lola77 · Aug 11, 2010

Hmmm patient ripping out IV, ripping off leads, refusing to stay in bed, moving furniture at 3AM. . .sounds like confusion to me! I am so sorry this happened to you. Like others have said, the family probably threatened to sue (even though you were trying to help dear grandma by keeping her on tele) and you were the scapegoat. The patient was NOT harmed. They should have written you up and done reeducation - not fire you. Were there prior incidents?

Man, I have seen restraints slapped on for lesser reasons than this! My guess is the family "knows somebody"

Do you know anyone that can get you into another facility? Friends from nursing school? People from clinicals? Old clinical teachers? It's all about who you know.

Don't give up! Keep applying and just be honest with them - lying about the termination is the worst thing you can do.

pedicurn, LPN, RN · Aug 11, 2010

Unfortunately this is a harsh lesson in CYA. It boils down to being able to identify that the patient has a problem, and what are you legally going to do for this patient to help solve this problem.
Your hospital did set you up for failure, like telling you things that contradicted standard nursing practice. However, if you ever had to face a jury, think about how silly it would sound to say, "I know, but my hospital told me to do this instead." The hospital will always be protected, because they will pull out their shiny policy paper, and prove you wrong.
Be safe,
M

Also, don't forget ...those shiny little inservice attendance sheets that you sign

johnny depp23 · Aug 12, 2010

Hi all,
I have a question- how do you go about finding a new job after being terminated when you only have 9 months of experience? I have searched other postings that say not to post that you were terminated on your applications, but on most of every one that I have applied for, they ask you straight out if you have ever been terminated. Here is waht happened-
I had a patient come in due to a fall. The patient had a potassium level of 2.6 and a sodium level of 116, both of which, by our hospital, are critical levels. I had the patient the night before and she didn't sleep, and during shift report, the day nurse reported the patient was confused and had been hallucinating. Fast forward to 0000. Patient had yet to go to sleep, had been wandering around in her room and trying to come out to the nurses station, and had taken off her tele monitor multiple times. I repeatedly went in to place her back in bed and to replace her monitor, as had the PCA. I informed her each time that the monitor was so we could watch her heart rhythm with her electrolytes so low. She started complaining about wanting to move her furniture around to better suit her and saying that her "box" (tele monitor) was tying her down. Finally, around 0300, she takes her IV out and has blood everywhere. We get her cleaned back up, back into bed and I place soft limb restraints on her wrists. The freaks out when she wakes up, and once her daughter comes up there, the both holler elder abuse and I was terminated. They claimed the patient was not confused, and without talking to the other nurse or PCA's they said that they had to let me go due to elder abuse and the fact that I didn't follow policy in applying restraints. Of course, with that in mind, I can't appeal the termination because I didn't follow policy. But, as I explained to the manager when she fired me, I was told in orientation that the nurses never call the doctor at night unless it is critical, and only the charge nurse is suppose to call, which she didn't. Also, I was told that we don't call for restraint orders because the doctors don't want to be disturbed for that, we just print out the orders and they will sign them when they come by. They told me that they would have to better instruct the nurses doing orientation, but that didn't help me. Needless to say, I learned my lesson on the order policy!! BUt, it has been 2 months now, and no one will look at me I had an interview at the hospital I used to work at as an extern, but they said they were leery hiring me as a termination, and I would have to go through some different steps because of it. That was last week, and I haven't heard back. Anyway, sorry for the long posting, but I am devastated that my dream to become a nurse has ended this quickly, and was wondering how to apply for jobs that ask if you have been terminated. I tried leaving it blank, but the application wouldn't send until I checked the box answering yes or no.

Hire an attorney. Don't be stupid and do nothing. Sounds like the charge nurse needs to get the boot if anything.

*Blessed2BaNRS* · Aug 12, 2010

Thanks all for your insight and recommendations. Unfortunately, listening to other nurses and my orientation nurse did nothing to help my case. As I told my manager, I take full responsibility about what happened, even though the charge nurse knew what was going on and did nothing to help. I, in turn, was the one who put the restraints on and who, even though taught differently, didn't do my job and call the doctor. I was just wondering how to get past this and get another job, having a lot of friends telling me that getting another job wouldn't be hard in this field. I have been totally honest in applying for jobs, even though I know that when potential employers see "termination" on it will probably make them chunk it into the trash. I have several friends who have tried to help me also. One good friend is a secretary to the Director of Recruiting, and I actually got an interview there, but they are leery of hiring a terminated nurse. I was even asked if I had applied anywhere else, to which I answered yes, becauuse I have applied to everywhere I see an add for. I just don't see this going anywhere, and I am so frustrated and depressed because I have waited so long to become a nurse and now that I am one, my career is over. Sure, I messed up, but I would think that they should have talked to the other nurse and charge nurse and gotten their point of view on how the patient was acting, since the day nurse and myself both documented the patient's confusion and constantly taking off her tele monitor and taking her IV out.

I guess I just wanted some reassurance that "this too shall pass" and my career isn't over just yet. I have seen other posts on here about nurses getting terminated and getting another job, I was just wondering the best way to go about doing that.

As far as getting a lawyer involved, I don't think that I would gain anything there, because as I posted, I didn't follow policy in calling the doctor and telling them that "I was taught this way" would just show them that the termination was justified.

caliotter3 · Aug 12, 2010

Perhaps you will have to do what others have done in similar circumstances, work in another line of work for a few years. After some time has passed and you have other jobs and references for your resume, you may be able to return to nursing and get that chance to start over. If you were to move to a different area, that too, might work to counteract the blacklisting. Best wishes.

Flying ICU RN · Aug 12, 2010

As far as getting a lawyer involved, I don't think that I would gain anything there, because as I posted, I didn't follow policy in calling the doctor and telling them that "I was taught this way" would just show them that the termination was justified.

Not so fast. Where legal matters are concerned, it's about getting things to go your way, not about being righteous.

You are already suffering damages, (negative job search consequences). A stern letter with a legal letterhead and the mere threat of litigation, may be enough to cause the other side to re-consider re-reinstatement. After all, you were a junior Nurse under the supervision of more senior personnel. Then move on asap.

That letter should cost you about 350.00, (one hour of time).

After this, lesson learned.

Doza · Aug 12, 2010

This is indeed a hard lesson to learn. Thank you for posting your experience here, as this is a valuable reminder for all of us, whether seasoned or new, to always be careful and follow rules to the letter, especially the written ones. Do not listen to any verbal changes to protocol.

On paper your hospital is perfect - rules, protocol and all. But in practice, they told you to do otherwise, like not "disturbing" a doctor in the middle of the night, when in fact they should really be on call. If they tell you that pm restraining is ok and the md will just sign the paperwork in the morning, then you should've taken that hint that something is not right.

At the very least write a letter to the hospital admin (made by your lawyer) so that you can document your side and have it formally received by the hospital. This letter can also be shown to where you are applying to so they know your side. Although some hospitals or facilities may not like nurses that fight back, you know what I mean.

Or why don't you ask the nurses board/association in your state/area for help? Yes, most here agree that it was wrong to have restrained the px, but there might be reason for your lapse in judgement, considering the current state of the px and the verbal protocol. Globally we are now a dime a dozen that is why they could care less to lay any of us off. Is it because we don't stick up for each other or is it that we're just used to taking orders and not to complain for whatever cr*p is thrown at us? I remember reading here once (don't recall the specific thread, maybe it was about work hours or px ratios) that we are treated this way because we let it. Of course many would rather be quiet and keep or jobs, which isn't their fault either in these tough economic times.

Best of luck to you. I hope you find a better job in a place that can bring out the best in you

listeningangel · Aug 13, 2010

This makes me sad...a nurse with a dream turned into nightmare. I guess what bothers me is that in taking responsibility for your actions you have decided you have no recourse. it's so traumatic, what happened to you.

there are so many views of this...

having worked in many settings, there are so many issues in your situation as a nurse with this patient that raise my red flags as a nurse with some legal education and experience...here's what flags are getting raised in my mind:

there is shared liability here - the nurse, the charge nurse, the MD, the nursing supervisor, the hospital orientation "don't call the MD at night". restraining the pt. sounds appropriate from what you describe because the pt came in with a fall, complicated by confusion, electrolyte imbalance, age, telemonitoring, at the very least. the restraints prevented another fall which is a huge issue here and in my state an obligation for the bedside nurse. when management has a policy, they share responsibility for verbalizing "but don't call the MD", they should be supporting bedside RN's trying to do the right thing. sounds like an undermining and contradictory culture has been going on there for awhile of the nursing policies. there's alot more to this than meets the eye...

what bothers me is that you have resigned to a conclusion that you were wrong and they were right in such an absolute manner, i.e. the policy said and I didn't....that's is not how it works from a larger perspective. there are standards of care for fall prevention, use of restraints and the RN's actions and nursig management has a few 'absolutes' here, too, which are silent.

Managers have alot of responsibility, too..for training and continuing education of staff nurses who incur these most difficult and complex patients, especially the elderly in hospital settings when their behavior and condition changes in the middle of the night; for supporting and providing avenues of continual communication between all staff caring for a patient and I could go on and on. there are many standards of care involved here. this smacks of 'what was convenient' for other decision makers about this patient and certainly the 'accusation' of abuse, which triggers strong reactions without adequate review and fairness to you. this also smacks of a lack of factual review upon the part of the admin in terms of the patient condition...what pops into my mind is - was there any harm done to the patient due to the restraints or were the restraints preventative of further harm?

now your career has a 'black cloud' hanging over you. sorry to go on at length. my compassion for the harm to you is why I would continue to encourage you to find out more, not give up your dream and hope you defend yourself. you sound like a compassionate, competent nurse who tried to do the right thing to me. breaks my heart to see another nurse suffer such severe consequences without fairness and adequate review not only of your actions but all the others involved, also. Review of the actions of the other staff involved in the situation is suspiciously absent here.

Maybe a resource would help, contact The American Association of Nurse Attorneys and ask.... I just want to support you. Nursing is so difficult for practicing nurses caught in a complex and rapidly changing world in which we practice. please don't give up, I think you are worth it. keeping you in my prayers..and now I will shut up.

dkoshea · Feb 9, 2011

I was just asked to reign in leiu of term due to a narcotic med not being given on my shiftas the order had expired and dissappeared off of my med orders ( mar)). The nurse who happens to be friends with the manager complained and told her that I was told in report about the patient being on the med. ( dont remember being told about it)... because of this I no longer want to do hospital nursing... suggestions... I have over 25 yrs experience

Cinquefoil · Feb 9, 2011

Would an attorney or the BON be able to subpenoa or somehow review PREVIOUS uses of restraints by that unit to see if they followed their verbal policy or their written policy?

My guess is that such a review would find other orders obtained well after the actual restraint placement.

If it can be demonstrated that you were fired for something that many other people were also doing, then you may have grounds for wrongful termination, even if you didn't follow policy.