A new grad, young nurse landed her DREAM job. Or what she thought would be her dream job in ICU. After orientation and on her own, she quit and said she thought she was dangerous and could kill a patient. The training was poor and the bullying was second to worst I have seen. That day she went home and gave up her life. Later, her parents notified the floor/ unit.
Now, obviously not every nurse under these circumstances has the same outcome. But, what can be done to change the (mean-girl- middle school) culture on floor? Who do you complain to? Who recognizes this as an issue with not just that nurse but many whom have left the floor for the same reasons?
How do you cope, who should be there to help nurses cope? Has this happened where you work?
Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
I mean I didn't want to get into what generation had it harder, obviously people have had it hard in any day and age but I will defend my generation against condescending remarks from mainly your generation, that we we have it easy and this whole coddled every one get's a prize narrative being pushed on us. I don't expect it to be easy but again DO NOT push that narrative that I do on me. I didn't ask for your condescending advice on "waiting for the good things in life."
I never said anything about "easier" I just am comparing the new struggles my generation faces vs. what wasn't as big of an issue before in the past two generations in GENERAL. I was speaking in GENERALIZED terms and not yours or anyone here's specific life experiences. At the end of the day yours and mine experiences are anecdotal evidence but in general there are many articles to support my claims, your condescending remarks are not appreciated... 4 Economic Facts to Shut Up any Baby Boomer Saying Millennials Are Lazy | Inverse
You say you want to teach the younger ones and I believe you. I just don't see it often in reality, in the workplace, but that's not to take away from your feelings about wanting to help and having a hard time as well. It's just rare I see an older nurse really support and take a new nurse under her wing. Not even limited to nursing in general in life, it's rare, there are no real mentors and everyone's in it for themselves. That's the reality.
Your remarks about new grad not wanting to wipe butts and the "I want it now" culture shows you don't get it and you judge others. What was that you said about these young nurses not wanting to learn from your vast experience? Maybe your just not approachable and judge young people. People can sense when your not genuine.
One group of people vocalize their grievances another group will always be like what about me? No one will ever get heard. The MAIN point of my comment was about suicide prevention and helping some of the nurses on here understand my generation better. It was not even heard by you, Your ego got in the way. Everyone will always want to be the most right.
I heard. I work well with all age groups. Some of the best workers in my field are techs/nurses who are definitely in the Millennial bracket. Some of the laziest and hardest to get along with are in my age bracket. I have a hard time with anyone wanting to "fast track" their way to supervising experienced nurses, who have little to zero knowledge about what it is we do. Call me condescending all you choose, that is my firm belief. The folks who "did time" in the "trenches" have a much better grasp of what it is those they supervise do, and their decisions often reflect this. There is no "fast track" to solid experience and good supervision. Many don't understand that, however. Hence the "I want it now" remark I made.
I don't just "want" to teach the "younger ones"; I already do as a designated preceptor who takes pride in giving new nurses of all ages the best learning experience and guidance.
But back to the topic: I don't believe suicide is more prevalent ( or trending) in nursing than ever before. And I do believe a lack of resilience is closely linked to the inability to cope, and perhaps, leads to suicidal thoughts. I also believe people contemplating suicide have a lot more going on than career challenges and difficulties.
Ok but your making this too personal. I did as well i apologize. I appreciate that you precept.
I knew a couple of classmates that wanted to go straight to NP no breaks. I mean everyone has there own path either theyll get a reality check or theyll actually succeed but you never know. I dont know much about that topic. However they may just be trying to impress people... Their families, their peers you never know. When I tell people im in nursing they will either day thats a noble profession or ignorantly go on and on about not personally being able to do that "dirty work". Maybe your students are being influenced by ths mentality from society.
My point was not new grads are a high risk of suicide. My point was even though this particular girl may have not had well developed copping skills she was triggered by her environment and this needs to be aknowledged. It may have been any other environment outside nursing, but society needs to address this.
Again be kind you never know what inner battle soneone is going through. There is too much ego these days, the world is very competitive. Empathy and compassion arent as held up in high regard anymore.
Specializes in Psych, Corrections, Med-Surg, Ambulatory.
Quote Ruby Vee
"You find what you look for.
The fact that you seem to find so much passive aggressiveness, anger, nastiness and bullying says way more about YOU and what you look for in your interactions than it does about the people you encounter. If you were looking for kind, pleasant, POSITIVE interactions, that is what you would find."
Ruby Vee I mean I'm all for law of attraction but this sounds like a cop out. You cannot control the type of people you work with, and sometimes the environment you work in is just toxic, and it has spread like a disease. If an employee hostile I doubt any person was seeking that negativity out when they asked that hostile employee a simple question and they were snapped at or was spoken down to. People need to stop putting blame on the victim for "attracting abuse" and hold people accountable for toxic behaviors. This type of attitude will NEVER solve the problem. Good nurses will just leave and your left with a cesspool of emotionally stunted nurses.
I think RubyVee was addressing a specific poster who seemed to feel she should take us all to task. Those of us who have been on this site a while have seen many of these posters come and go. We're all mean bullies and no one would want us for their nurse, yadda yadda.
No one is being mean to the OP; we're just not seeing evidence of a "trend". The fact is that no one knows why that particular new grad saw fit to end her life. It is premature to assume that she was sailing along until her DREAM job turned out to be populated with mean people. We will never know what all she was dealing with.
We Crusty Old Bats have identified several factors that cause a difficult transition from nursing school to nursing. (Hint: it's usually not us.) There are hostile environments and it's best to just get out when one finds oneself in one. The difficulty for new grads is that they can't be sure if it's the environment, or them. But as Ruby says, for the most part, one finds what one expects to find.
If you want honest, give-and-take discussion, this is a great forum. Holier-than-thou doesn't play well.
How does a new nurse develop compassion fatigue? I precept and I have no problem teaching, guiding, correcting and supporting but I am NOT your mother. I have found several new nurses who expect me to be. Being asked "can you say things a little sweeter to me ? I mean like even when I mess up? I get super stressed otherwise" is a sign of something I have never seen before. While this statement was isolated the attitude is not. I also never had my mother call my preceptor to talk to her about how I was being treated. Blaming the victim is wrong in many cases but wanting a cotton wrapped world is unrealistic. My jobs as a new nurse were often like the hunger games but it made me organized, strong and a quick thinker. Nursing is not like being a pop star or cruise director.
Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
Again be kind you never know what inner battle soneone is going through. There is too much ego these days, the world is very competitive. Empathy and compassion arent as held up in high regard anymore.
Already got this covered, thanks. Have a good day.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
I mean I think a lot of your are missing out on a important discussion regarding suicide and depression. Yes the OP used a poor choice of words referring it to a trend that can be observed statistically among new nurses. So everyone's jumping on that and missing the main point because they don't want to deal with the ugly truth.
Some people are so beaten down by society and are constantly dealt a rough hand. This, depression, and the fact this new nurse worked with bully type employees, it was obviously a trigger. You cannot deny those employees triggered something in that girl to end her life. Yes it was something built up in her but they were the catalyst. That scares the crap out of most of you I can tell, it holds us ALL accountable to the power of our words and the negative repercussions they can have. She probably felt worthless, hopeless, and like a failure. The nurses she worked with did nothing but confirm her deep rooted fears.
Bullying is not just in the nursing profession however experienced nurses tend to be at times ruthless with new nurses. It was how they were trained so they assume it's ok to carry it on to the next generation. I see it on here as well, attitude given when a new grad asks a simple question, there is an air of a superiority complex in some of the responses.
I see responses saying millennials are to coddled, they won all the prizes, blaming her parents for not giving her coping skills. Thats a gross assumption, ageism, and unfair. Millennials have had it harder than gen x and the baby boomers. We cannot pay our tuition with summer jobs like previous generations, we can't find job straights out of HS or even college/university.
RPN jobs for new grads in my city are impossible to find. Everything requires 2-5 years of experience, school doesn't count. We don't have a house, a car, and kids by the age of 25. We can't afford to. Employers think were entitled by trying to improve things meanwhile we go home to our bachelor apartments, struggle to pay bills, while our parents wonder why it's so hard for us to get it together and then there's people who tell new grads how easy it is to find nursing jobs and assume something is wrong with them specifically when they can't.
Anyway be kind to all, you never know what inner battle they are fighting.
First, we don't know that the new nurse referred to in the original post actually worked with bullying coworkers. All we know is that the original poster said she did. Bullying is in the eye of the beholder. The suicidal nurse may have told the OP that she was bullied or the OP may have concluded on her own that the nurse was bullied, but that doesn't mean that anything even approaching bullying even actually happened. There is no "fact that she was bullied." There is an assumption that she was actually bullied because someone said she was.
Anyone who has read this forum for long knows that we have new nurses coming here complaining that they've been bullied and offer up one bad interaction with a colleague as "proof". One newbie claimed that she knew her preceptor hated her and was bullying her because she did't share personal information about her family with the newbie whom she'd just met. Another claimed that her preceptor's having lunch with her own friends rather than the newbie was bullying. Very few of the incidents described here as bullying are actual bullying.
Second, we don't know that the girl's colleagues had anything to do with her suicide. We don't know that they're the ones who triggered something her that led to her decision to end her own life as opposed to the girl's parents, boyfriend, best friend, or the death of her beloved pet. We CAN deny that the co-workers had anything to do with it, because we don't know and neither do you.
Third, it is not up to workplace colleagues to heal someone's feelings of worthlessness, hopelessness and failure. We have enough to do to take care of our patients; and on top of that we have to precept new nurses who, perhaps because of their feelings of worthlessness, hopelessness or failure (which we know nothing about, nor should we) are slow to catch on or to take ownership of their own learning.
Fourth, you seem to misunderstand workplace relationships. I personally don't know of any experienced nurses who make a practice of being ruthless with new nurses. I have seen an experienced nurse or two be ruthless with new nurses who made mistakes endangering patients which for which the new nurses failed to take responsibility or with new nurses who failed to learn despite multiple efforts to teach. I'm sure that there are a few ruthless experienced nurses out there, but the fact that you claim to be so intimately aquainted with them leads me to believe that perhaps you have had difficulty catching on, taking ownership or accepting responsibility.
Fifth, you don't seem to understand that you're not the only generation to have problems. Perhaps millenials have life tougher than Boomers, Gen X or the Great Generation. I doubt it, but let's assume that you are at least partially correct there. Most of us developed coping skills which the millenials seem to lack. Not all millenials, but many, many of them.
Speaking as a boomer, I didn't have a house, a car and kids by age 25, either. I'm not sure what you're calling a "bachelor apartment," but most of us lived in our own crappy apartments with roommates for a long time before we could afford the house and the nice car. I drove cars I picked up at the junkyard, for heaven's sake. I lived in a series of crappy apartments and at least once in a crappy house with an old couple who rented me a room in hopes of having someone to carry their groceries, shovel their snow and now their lawn. Your generation doesn't have it any worse than mine in that respect. We bought our own nice furniture, TVs and toys when we could afford it. What many of us didn't have was the choice of moving in with parents. Mine used to routinely knock the crap out of me, so I wouldn't have moved in even had then agreed to let me.
And sixth, the Boomers and Gen Xers on here seem to be far kinder than you.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
Quote Ruby Vee
"You find what you look for.
The fact that you seem to find so much passive aggressiveness, anger, nastiness and bullying says way more about YOU and what you look for in your interactions than it does about the people you encounter. If you were looking for kind, pleasant, POSITIVE interactions, that is what you would find."
Ruby Vee I mean I'm all for law of attraction but this sounds like a cop out. You cannot control the type of people you work with, and sometimes the environment you work in is just toxic, and it has spread like a disease. If an employee hostile I doubt any person was seeking that negativity out when they asked that hostile employee a simple question and they were snapped at or was spoken down to. People need to stop putting blame on the victim for "attracting abuse" and hold people accountable for toxic behaviors. This type of attitude will NEVER solve the problem. Good nurses will just leave and your left with a cesspool of emotionally stunted nurses.
You've misunderstood my comment. I'm not victim-blaming. I'm pointing out that anyone who goes through life looking for hostile interactions is going to find them. If you're expecting people to be hostile, chances are they will be -- possibly because you're eliciting the responses you get. Someone who goes through life genuinely liking the people she meets (some of whom may be difficult to like) is far more likely to meet kind, helpful people. She is eliciting the responses she gets.
Getting snapped at or talked down to is not bullying, and to claim that it is devalues real bullying. Getting snapped at may be an understandable reaction to dealing with a pest or with someone who doesn't have the interpersonal skills to realize that someone who is busy with a patient who is bleeding out isn't the person to ask for help with a clean up or for the numbe to pharmacy. Getting talked down to may mean you've asked the same question (or variations of it) over and over and you're not getting it.
If the majority of your interactions with your colleagues are negative, it's wise to assume that it may not be THEM. It might be YOU.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
I mean I didn't want to get into what generation had it harder, obviously people have had it hard in any day and age but I will defend my generation against condescending remarks from mainly your generation, that we we have it easy and this whole coddled every one get's a prize narrative being pushed on us. I don't expect it to be easy but again DO NOT push that narrative that I do on me. I didn't ask for your condescending advice on "waiting for the good things in life."
I never said anything about "easier" I just am comparing the new struggles my generation faces vs. what wasn't as big of an issue before in the past two generations in GENERAL. I was speaking in GENERALIZED terms and not yours or anyone here's specific life experiences. At the end of the day yours and mine experiences are anecdotal evidence but in general there are many articles to support my claims, your condescending remarks are not appreciated... 4 Economic Facts to Shut Up any Baby Boomer Saying Millennials Are Lazy | Inverse
You say you want to teach the younger ones and I believe you. I just don't see it often in reality, in the workplace, but that's not to take away from your feelings about wanting to help and having a hard time as well. It's just rare I see an older nurse really support and take a new nurse under her wing. Not even limited to nursing in general in life, it's rare, there are no real mentors and everyone's in it for themselves. That's the reality.
Your remarks about new grad not wanting to wipe butts and the "I want it now" culture shows you don't get it and you judge others. What was that you said about these young nurses not wanting to learn from your vast experience? Maybe your just not approachable and judge young people. People can sense when your not genuine.
One group of people vocalize their grievances another group will always be like what about me? No one will ever get heard. The MAIN point of my comment was about suicide prevention and helping some of the nurses on here understand my generation better. It was not even heard by you, Your ego got in the way. Everyone will always want to be the most right.
You said that you had it tougher than other generations. That is saying that they had it easier than you. I doubt very much that is the case.
Her remarks about new grads being vocal about not wanting to wipe butts and the "I want it now" culture shows she DOES get it. Your remarks show that you don't. The generations before you knew that they needed to earn the good stuff, and they expected to do so. Too many of your generation -- not all, but too many -- want all the good stuff right now and don't seem to understand the concept of earning stuff.
As far as ego -- see to the log in your own eye before you go looking for the more in another's eye.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
Ok but your making this too personal. I did as well i apologize. I appreciate that you precept.
I knew a couple of classmates that wanted to go straight to NP no breaks. I mean everyone has there own path either theyll get a reality check or theyll actually succeed but you never know. I dont know much about that topic. However they may just be trying to impress people... Their families, their peers you never know. When I tell people im in nursing they will either day thats a noble profession or ignorantly go on and on about not personally being able to do that "dirty work". Maybe your students are being influenced by ths mentality from society.
My point was not new grads are a high risk of suicide. My point was even though this particular girl may have not had well developed copping skills she was triggered by her environment and this needs to be aknowledged. It may have been any other environment outside nursing, but society needs to address this.
Again be kind you never know what inner battle soneone is going through. There is too much ego these days, the world is very competitive. Empathy and compassion arent as held up in high regard anymore.
Again, I ask how you know that this particular girl was triggered by her WORK environment. As co-workers, we aren't responsible for her mental health -- we may not even know about her mental health.
These days anything that doesn't automatically go their way is called bullying. Being an older highly experienced nurse, or being too busy to answer every question like what's the number to the pharmacy, or going off in the corner of the break room to eat one's sandwich in peace and quiet---heck, even the look on someone's face means they're a bully! I'm going into my 37th year of nursing and have never been bullied or seen bullying in either of the two hospitals I've worked in. Where did I learn about it? Right here on AN! Somebody needs to learn some coping skills.
Saying something is harder does not make the thing i'm comparing it to easy, Just harder... economically in a lot of ways it is right now, generally speaking outside of anecdotal personal experience. There is a lot of stats online about this very topic.
Ruby Vee - How was she triggered? Because that's what the OP insinuated, the OP said she was bullied, she quit, and shortly after ended her life. Is it surprising bullying caused someone to end their life? or at least was a catalyst? It happens. The OP even said it was the worst bullying they've seen, so it probably wasn't "just a dirty look."
Anyways why is me saying something like be a kinder human being to others something that needs to be argued? I'm just take people should consider the power of their words, and that no one knows what someone is going through in any circumstance or environment.
Like for an example if someone is a raging jerk to a teen employee at the local grocery store, how do they know the teen wasn't on the brink of suicide? and they, the customer triggered a heavier emotional response because of what was bubbling under the surface? Is that customer criminally responsible for the death? Of course not. Are they a crappy human being? Yes.
I mean I'm trying to explain a persons potential fragile state of mind. Am I saying oh "handle people with kid gloves" like many of the people on here are likely to argue? No I'm saying be decent, maybe even nice?
If someone feels a new nurse isn't doing the right thing there's probably a more professional way of addressing it rather than belittling them.
SmilingBluEyes
20,964 Posts
I heard. I work well with all age groups. Some of the best workers in my field are techs/nurses who are definitely in the Millennial bracket. Some of the laziest and hardest to get along with are in my age bracket. I have a hard time with anyone wanting to "fast track" their way to supervising experienced nurses, who have little to zero knowledge about what it is we do. Call me condescending all you choose, that is my firm belief. The folks who "did time" in the "trenches" have a much better grasp of what it is those they supervise do, and their decisions often reflect this. There is no "fast track" to solid experience and good supervision. Many don't understand that, however. Hence the "I want it now" remark I made.
I don't just "want" to teach the "younger ones"; I already do as a designated preceptor who takes pride in giving new nurses of all ages the best learning experience and guidance.
But back to the topic: I don't believe suicide is more prevalent ( or trending) in nursing than ever before. And I do believe a lack of resilience is closely linked to the inability to cope, and perhaps, leads to suicidal thoughts. I also believe people contemplating suicide have a lot more going on than career challenges and difficulties.