Students who get As are bad bedside nurses

[konstantine]

This is the refrain I keep hearing from my clinical instructor and others in and around my program. What's your experience? I'm a Level 1 student. I know very well I have all of it to learn, but I don't think I'm a complete lost cause. I make good grades in class, but at every turn I hear someone telling me that good grades mean absolutely nothing to being a good nurse.

Just to validate myself. I always finish my head to toe assessment by the time it's due while establishing a good rapport with my one patient (so far). I have found things during my assessment the actual nurse missed (due to the fact that I have one patient and half an hour to assess them, while the nurse has at least 5 and significantly less time to hover over the same lung spot). I've gotten feedback from the CNAs and nurses on the floor I have clinical on that I'm the one who jumps in to do anything, while many of my classmates huddle and just answer call lights. My clinical instructor has me go in the room with other students to help them with their assessments. I'm the only person in my clinical group she's let do a glucose check and lovenox injection unobserved.

I'm not blind to my faults. Most obviously, I don't have experience. I still very much need someone to validate what I observe, because I'm really not sure I'm what I think I'm observing is correct, or if I'm missing something altogether. And I am most definitely missing assessment findings a real nurse catches. In addition, I struggle with time management. That's why I make the effort to get all my patient work and paper work done as early as I can to shadow a nurse as long as I can. I want to see how they organize their shift and how they deal with all the random stuff I'm not going to see with my one patient. I don't know what all goes in to being an actual nurse on a med-surg floor. Mostly, I don't know WHAT I don't know, but I really try to be aware of that and observe the nurses and ask what clues they got that made them do what they did.

Really, though, I just don't see how getting good grades is going to make me a ****** nurse. Is this something people say to make people who are earning grades they wish were better feel better, or is there truth to it? I'm trying to keep my confidence up, but I hear this sentiment several times a week, and I'm really wondering what I don't even know I'm missing.

In your experience, are the nurses with the highest grades in their class bad nurses when it comes to caring for real patients? If they are, what are their weaknesses, and what can those class-smart but patient-stupid do to improve?

[Undone]

I've heard some professors say something like that, they would also share that they were not A students. Connection? Maybe. I am sure that a student may do very well on exams, but lack people skills that are needed. However, people skills alone will not save a life. B or C students may understand the material, but just can't answer those nursing exam questions. A lot is depending on those questions, it causes a lot of stress and anxiety for many people. I was an A student, and I am an A nurse (for my experience level). I communicate well with my patients and put them at ease. I think that part of what makes someone a good nurse is the ability to recognize what they don't know, and the desire to learn it.

[RNsRWe, ASN, RN]

I use examples like this from time to time, and I think it applies here: Can you imagine a professor of law telling his students that laywers who were 'A' students are bad as trial lawyers? No? Me either.

Perhaps a professor of engineering telling his students "'A' students do poorly when on site"? No again.

What the heck IS it with nursing that encourages this kind of ridiculous discourse??

[DeeAngel]

When someone tells you that A students make bad nurses, look at them like they have 3 heads and say "what an odd assumption" or "thats quite an interesting assumption". Bad grades do not automatically make good nurses so I'm not sure why anyone would think the opposite is true either.

[DanielEdgar]

Why would a nurse not want to be excellent in EVERYTHING he or she does, including school? This is a dumb topic.

If I got to choose which nurse or doctor worked on my kids, why would I choose the D or C student over the A student? That doesn't make any sense.

Sure, you can still be a nurse if you got D's in school and just squeeked-by. But work at the hospital across the street please. Let the D student fiqure out those Heparin drips. I want to work with someone who has a spirit of excellence and doesn't diss others because they worked hard to get good grades in nursing school.

[llg, PhD, RN]

My personal experience, having worked with hundreds of students and new grads over the course of my 35+ year career?

There is a loose association between grades and nursing ability -- but not a terribly strong one.

I have seen 4.0 students be incompetent at the bedside for a variety of reasons (e.g. no common sense, paralyzed by fear of making a mistake, etc.) -- and I have seen other 4.0 students make terrific bedside nurses. Others are in between.

I have seen 3.0 students make great staff nurses -- and terrible ones -- and everything in between.

But I have never seen a "C" student make a great bedside nurse that I can remember.

It takes a certain amount of intelligence, diligence, judgment, etc. to be a good nurse -- and most of the people have those things get at least a B in most classes. But being perfect in your classes is no guarantee that you will function well on the job.

So ... in formal logic terms ... Decent grades (but not outstanding) are a necessary, but not sufficient, condition of success.

[NurseSpeedy, ADN, LPN, RN]

But don't many need A's these days to get into nursing school? So aren't many people Straight A students these days?

I don't get it! haha

Unless the student is willing to pay through the nose for a private school that doesn't base admissions on pre-requisite course GPA then yes, most community colleges and universities are requiring almost straight A's to get a seat in the program.

[danielle2000, MSN, RN]

I recall my dean in nursing stating that A/B students would not need to review for their NCLEX as their grades sufficed. I of course disagreed with her because I realize that the NCLEX is based common sense. I was a B/C student in nursing and I passed my boards on the first try. What amazed me were the students that were on the honor roll did not pass. I think it has a lot to do with analyzing the questions, reading more into what the questions are asking. However, there is always an exception to the rule. No one should negate getting good grades in nursing. Some people are just great either way. I realize each person knows their strengths and challenges the key is working on the challenges despite depending on the grade in the curriculum.

[flashpoint]

There is a "joke" that goes something like this..."What do they call the person that graduates last in his class in medical school?" The answer..."Doctor." Well, you know what? They call the person that graduates FIRST in his class in medical school doctor too. I think that having good grades does not hinder your performance as a nurse. Sometimes people are merely book smart and can't perform in real like, but there are millions of straight A nurses out there that are awesome on the floor. Don't let anyone tell you that people who get good grades can't make it when they hit the floor.

[sauce]

You know who makes the best nurses? The ones who try the hardest and are able to transfer book knowledge into working knowledge. Not the A B C whatever nurse.

[TheCommuter, BSN, RN]

But don't many need A's these days to get into nursing school? So aren't many people Straight A students these days?

No, not everyone needs 'A' grades to be admitted to nursing programs.

A number of community colleges and state universities in deeply rural areas have no choice but to accept some students who have earned 'B' and 'C' grades in the prerequisite coursework. Otherwise, seats would go unfilled if these schools only admitted 'A' students.

In addition, many investor-owned schools of questionable repute (Kaplan, Everest, ITT Technical Institute, West Coast University) will readily admit 'C' students as long as they have the cash, financial aid or private loans to cover the staggering tuition.

[SunriseDay]

No, not everyone needs 'A' grades to be admitted to nursing programs.

A number of community colleges and state universities in deeply rural areas have no choice but to accept some students who have earned 'B' and 'C' grades in the prerequisite coursework. Otherwise, seats would go unfilled if these schools only admitted 'A' students.

In addition, many investor-owned schools of questionable repute (Kaplan, Everest, ITT Technical Institute, West Coast University) will readily admit 'C' students as long as they have the cash, financial aid or private loans to cover the staggering tuition.

Where are these areas? It usually doesn't apply to California public colleges. I'm not surprised by ADNs from O-O-S, but hearing that of state (BSN) programs is surprising.

I guess you could get lower grades with an LVN-RN bridge, too... or even an RN-BSN bridge.

But if one wants to go straight in, to BSN, usually they need very high GPAs.

But not getting A's in school will lock a person out from obtaining advanced practice MSNs.

[veggie530]

It's a myth. Some A-students do great hands on. Some C-students do, too.

I have noticed that I see a lot of A-student types have extreme difficulty in the work force because there is no "A-grade" for them to achieve, and often they are in fluid situations that aren't black-and-white answers like exams in nursing tend to be.

But it is a popular thing I hear.