Student Response to "Court Subpoena"

Nursing Students General Students

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I just read the article about the member here that is getting subpoenaed.

As a student, I remember briefly going over legal issues the first semester of school. After reading that, I guess I don't feel legally prepared even though I've been in school for three semesters now. I vaguely remember the material.

What would you all suggest a new grad or future nurse do to be prepared to provide "legal care."

I guess another thought I have is our world and society is incredibly "sue happy" and it's unfortunate that one has to be darn near paranoid all the time about this. It's really unfortunate. It seems like one more issue to worry about. As if we don't have enough already.

Specializes in Progressive, Intermediate Care, and Stepdown.
Maintain malpractice insurance at all time.

Learn to document meticulously.

Know and adhere to your state's NPA at all time, and stay within your scope of practice.

Know and adhere to your facility's P&P at all times...EXCEPT if in doing so you'd violate your state's NPA. You can always get another job; you can't always get another nursing license.

And ambgirl2nurse is spot on with her "what would a prudent nurse do in this situation?" because that is what you will be judged by.

Isn't one covered by the hospital's ? Why would I have insurance if that's the case? Or, is that not the case?

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Specializes in Hospice.

Always chart what you do and who you talk to. that was something i didn't learn at my first job and i did at the one now .......and it matters. Its not just what you do , but what you recognize. Charting those converstations show you recongized symptoms and you relayed the information to the drs. even simple stuff. You also need to make sure symptoms are being treated if there not you need to make sure the drs have been at the very least informed of the symptoms. I had a pt the other day for several days. he had high blood pressure the entire time he was in our care but no dr. was addressing it. I brought it up to them and they hadn't reconized teh high trend over the 5 days the pt was there a hospitalist was added to the case for the benfeit of the pt.

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Specializes in psych, addictions, hospice, education.

P & P = Policies and Procedures. All facilities have them and they're usually in a realllly big book. It's important to familiarize yourself with them, and refer to them whenever you do something new to you.

Yes, facilities will have on you. However, their policy on you is to protect them rather than you. It's important that you get your own malpractice insurance. As a student, your school carries malpractice insurance on you, but you can get your own policy for that too.

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Specializes in Progressive, Intermediate Care, and Stepdown.
P & P = Policies and Procedures. All facilities have them and they're usually in a realllly big book. It's important to familiarize yourself with them, and refer to them whenever you do something new to you.

Yes, facilities will have malpractice insurance on you. However, their policy on you is to protect them rather than you. It's important that you get your own malpractice insurance. As a student, your school carries malpractice insurance on you, but you can get your own policy for that too.

Thanks very much for the input. I had a feeling that's what it stood for. Now, Meriwhen mentioned this, "Know and adhere to your facility's P&P at all times...EXCEPT if in doing so you'd violate your state's NPA. You can always get another job; you can't always get another nursing license."

What's a situation in which a P&P would violate NPA? I can't imagine this happens that often. I would assume the hospital's legal department would be on this if there was a violation.

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"P & P" means the policy and procedures of the facility/system where you work.

As for professional , I would recommend this, even at the student level. Hospitals tell you that their insurance will cover you, but this is only true to a point. They will cover you as long as it's good for them. But as soon as there is a conflict of interest, what do YOU think they will do? Sometimes businesses (and a hospital is definitely a business) will promise to fire individuals as part of a settlement. It's easier (and more cost effective for them) to offer up a sacrificial lamb or two than to duke it out in court.

Liabililty insurance covers nurses who are called to testify in cases that do not affect them directly. And it covers nurses who volunteer their time in a nursing role.

Getting coverage for a year often amounts to less than one day's pay. It costs less than a single hour of attorney time. I don't know why anyone would consider practicing without it.

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Specializes in Progressive, Intermediate Care, and Stepdown.
"P & P" means the policy and procedures of the facility/system where you work.

As for professional liability insurance, I would recommend this, even at the student level. Hospitals tell you that their insurance will cover you, but this is only true to a point. They will cover you as long as it's good for them. But as soon as there is a conflict of interest, what do YOU think they will do? Sometimes businesses (and a hospital is definitely a business) will promise to fire individuals as part of a settlement. It's easier (and more cost effective for them) to offer up a sacrificial lamb or two than to duke it out in court.

Liabililty insurance covers nurses who are called to testify in cases that do not affect them directly. And it covers nurses who volunteer their time in a nursing role.

Getting coverage for a year often amounts to less than one day's pay. It costs less than a single hour of attorney time. I don't know why anyone would consider practicing without it.

They definitely didn't mention this initially in school. I'm all for it now that you mention it. Do you think if the instructors discussed this early on it would have students constantly worried about legal problems and scare people off? Hence, why they didn't mention it.

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Many schools do cover this in the course of the training. But there are people who go their entire career and never get insurance. If your instructors are among those, they probably don't see it as something important and therefore don't pass the idea on to others. As a student, you do have reduced liability because you are supposed to be operating under someone else's guidance and direction. Even so, student policies are less expensive than those for regular nurses and ought to be considered.

Google "nursing " and you'll find some good sources to explain further.

At this stage of your education, I'd say be aware of what and how you are charting. Do familiarize yourself with your state's Nurse Practice Act. And try to learn the P&P of your clinical facility. To a point.

You can get yourself so worked up and worried about covering every little detail that you end up paralyzed with fear.

What you should aim for is balance. Know enough that you aren't going to make any stupid mistakes. Ask questions when you don't know something. Stay under your instructor's authority and let her know when you're going to do something. Other than that, learn how to find the P&P so you can look things up when needed. But don't try to memorize the thing. Work up the chain of command when anything is questionable. Use common sense. Learn from mistakes--your own and other people's.

Then put these things on a back burner. That knowledge will be there if you need it, but it won't leave you preoccupied while you're trying to complete your education and later, function as a nurse.

You have enough on your plate now without worrying about every possible legal eventuality.

I wish you the best.

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Specializes in Psych ICU, addictions.
I'm sorry but I'm not familiar with "P&P." I'm still a student as I don't know all acronyms.

Sorry about that :)

P&P: Policies and procedures.

NPA: Nurse Practice Act

And yes, a hospital/school's may protect you...but only to a point. The facility or school's interests always come first should a lawsuit strike, and they will do what they can to protect themselves even if it means throwing you under a bus. So have your own insurance as a precaution.

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Specializes in Ante-Intra-Postpartum, Post Gyne.

Follow standard procedures, what they expect a prudent nurse to do. Uphold hospital protocol. Buy private , your hospital WILL throw you under the bus to save their own ass. Take a charting class; as some one else mentioned, chart meticulously...but know you can hang yourself on your charting as well.

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Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.

Malpractice insurance will also help protect your license if a hospital/patient accuse you of HIPAA violations or unsafe acts/abuse. Legal representation is expensive and your insurance will cover the costs of a lawyer. Being low on the food chain puts you at risk for being the "corrective action" taken when an error occurs. Nurses are human and you never know when/if you will make that horrible mistake. It won't matter if it is a system issue, staffing issue, computer glitch......you are held responsible for your actions. I have carried for my entire career starting in school. I have never needed it but it has given me piece of mind.

There are also certain areas that lead towards more litigation like the Emergency Department. Crimes of violence, child abuse, motor vehicle accidents involving alcohol, rape, murder/assault/coroners cases........ as well as an increase of violence out of control patients and an increase use of restraints and keeping people against their will when a danger to themselves or others........will all buy you more time in front of a jury in a court of law.

I have given you a few links to look at as far as litigation is concerned and medical mistakes. Not all nursing mistakes are because a nurse has been negligent and lazy. Bad things can happen to good people.

New York City Infant Dies From Antibiotic Overdose - Nurse Discharged

https://allnurses.com/nursing-news/new-york-city-633897.html

Nurse Overdoses Baby, Baby Dies.

https://allnurses.com/nursing-news/nurse-overdoses-baby-507227.html

suicide of RN

https://allnurses.com/washington-nurses/suicide-of-rn-555775.html

Sad story for all nurses

https://allnurses.com/nicu-nursing-neonatal/sad-story-all-584375.html

More stories of fatal errors by good nurses

Google Search Results for infant dies after mistake

I hope this helps.

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Specializes in Hospital Education Coordinator.

get a copy, or know how to access online, your nurse practice act. Read it.

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this "loss of license" thing is so hysterically overused here. get a sense of proportion, too. you are assuming waaaaaaaaay to much litigation and danger. more than 90% of all med-legal cases never-- that's never-- go to trial, they settle out of court. please read that sentence again and take a deep breath.

next, your state nursing association and/or your state nursing board periodically publishes names and offenses of all nurses in the jurisdiction who suffer restriction or loss of license to practice nursing. find that list. read what people get in trouble for. you will see narcotics diversion, theft, practicing under the influence, elder or child abuse, fraud, and the like. if you're not planning on doing any of those, then you have a lot less to worry about.

next, as people do note above, know your nurse practice act and, more importantly in some ways, have a working knowledge of the ana scope and standards of practice (a slim volume available at your favorite online booksellers). that's a good thing for students to read regardless, because it informs you of the basis of professional nursing that your faculty is trying to teach you.

if you are working within your scope of practice, meaning you are doing what the reasonably prudent nurse would do and you aren't doing anything you aren't supposed to do as a nurse, then even if you are named in a suit, your name will probably be removed from it as the discovery portion of the business proceeds.

just in case, never practice without your own . your malpractice insurance pays for a lawyer for you, as the hospital's lawyer does not have your best interest first in line.

do not believe those people who will tell you that if you carry malpractice insurance you are more likely to be sued. not true.

even if the hospital tells you not to worry because they cover you, they cannot direct their insurance company what to do. if the hospital's insurance pays a judgment because of something you did (or, remembering that settlement thing, something they say you did-- no trial where you could defend yourself), that insurance company is perfectly within its rights to turn around and attempt to recover those losses from you, personally, and they will.

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