Student Attempted IV 7 Times

[ChickenHealer]

Not sure where to post this but I saw something today in clinical that was just eating me up. My school has an agreement with a few clinical sites to allow students to return to clinical early, and I saw something today that made me very uncomfortable. A nurse allowed myself and another student to go into her (sedated) patient's room, and offered to let us start an IV. IV insertion is strictly prohibited and the clinical coordinator specifically told us not to even attempt it, as it can result in "major consequences". I told this to the nurse, but my classmate decided to try to insert the IV anyway. The classmate poked the patient 1, then 2, then 3.... until the nurse finally stopped her, at 7 attempts. 7 insertions, including one on a different site which was not cleaned. 

The school's clinical coordinator showed up on site about 30 minutes after the event, and she asked me if we had gotten to do any IVs. I had the feeling that she knew about it, and I told her about my classmates IV attempts. It turns out that she had no idea about the event, she just happened to show up and ask. She was angry at me for reporting it and told me not to tell anyone about it, or there would be consequences. The student and I are paired to go into the ED this week, and she was going on about how she hopes that we'll have more tries at starting IVs and that she'll make sure I can do it next.

I have no idea what to do. I feel that if I report it further, the clinical coordinator will do something to take it out on me. I can't stop thinking about how that patient was sedated and didn't have any idea a student was involved in their care, the potential pain, or the risk of infection from all of those repeated insertions, including a site that wasn't cleaned at all. 

[DarkPeach, ASN]

On 1/20/2021 at 8:46 PM, Wuzzie said:

I also cannot fathom someone letting anyone, outside of a life or death situation,  attempt 7 times which, at the very least, is likely a policy violation but even more so is an ethical violation. Every facility I’ve worked at it’s two sticks and then get someone else. This entire situation is appalling. 

Last year, my mother needed to have some procedure done that required IV insertion. The doctor, nurse, or whoever tried to stick her 6 TIMES without success. My mother was in so much pain that she was in tears, and the person was STILL trying to stick her. They didn't stop until she demanded them to do so. I felt so bad for her. I was in nursing school at the time, and when she told me what happened, I wondered why the person didn't stop sooner if they could see she was in that much distress.The procedure had to be rescheduled, and luckily the person my mother got that time was able to get the IV cath in on the first try.

[studentnurseajurb]

This story don’t make no sense.

[amoLucia]

5 hours ago, Hoosier_RN said:

I totally understand her pov. I've been called mean (at the nicest, as well as worse) on here more than once for not giving the answer that the poster was looking for, saying what needed to be said instead of what they wanted to hear. Many long timers on here, as of late, are posting less and less, and I'm pretty sure that's a good part of the reason. 

 

Am thinking the same too.

[Guest856929]

6 hours ago, Hoosier_RN said:

I totally understand her pov. I've been called mean (at the nicest, as well as worse) on here more than once for not giving the answer that the poster was looking for, saying what needed to be said instead of what they wanted to hear. Many long timers on here, as of late, are posting less and less, and I'm pretty sure that's a good part of the reason. 

 

Some newbies cannot accept divergent opinions without being disagreeable and disrespectful. Quite ironic when they solicit feedback, but only want validation. Unfortunate. 

[JBMmom, MSN, NP]

6 minutes ago, cynical-RN said:

Some newbies cannot accept divergent opinions without being disagreeable and disrespectful. Quite ironic when they solicit feedback, but only want validation. Unfortunate. 

This seems to be across interactions in so many environments these days. On social media, and even in person, people present a question or an opinion and when the response isn't exactly what they want, they often shut others down. And more often than not, it's shut down with disparaging remarks made about others, turning a constructive argument into a personal attack. It's frustrating when an open exchange of opinions can't be undertaken without someone getting upset and turning things personal. 

[londonflo]

18 minutes ago, JBMmom said:

This seems to be across interactions in so many environments these days.

I watched a documentary about the pandemic "Totally Under Control" and a point was made, that with the onset of the pandemic and its stressors, Americans are just not tolerating/respecting the opinions of eachother. 

[Guest856929]

39 minutes ago, JBMmom said:

This seems to be across interactions in so many environments these days. On social media, and even in person, people present a question or an opinion and when the response isn't exactly what they want, they often shut others down. And more often than not, it's shut down with disparaging remarks made about others, turning a constructive argument into a personal attack. It's frustrating when an open exchange of opinions can't be undertaken without someone getting upset and turning things personal. 

Indeed. We live at a time of convenient outrage. If one’s thoughts do not align with another’s, then there’s no room for nuance. We have become so rigid as our convictions become more unthinking. People are more interested in being right and validated, rather than being challenged and factual. Ad hominem attacks have become more prominent.

Unfortunately, not only is the chasm of our biological and societal differences getting wider, but our thinking is becoming more black and white. There are no shades of gray. I’m hopeful however. In most of my interactions, in the professional setting, people are respectful and civil. Anonymity conceals identity, but reveals character and unchecked egos in these online forums. 

[Hoosier_RN, MSN]

3 hours ago, londonflo said:

I watched a documentary about the pandemic "Totally Under Control" and a point was made, that with the onset of the pandemic and its stressors, Americans are just not tolerating/respecting the opinions of eachother. 

Some weren't doing very well before. It's just being openly admitted and discussed now. 

[Kathryn Defranc]

SEVEN TIMES! And No One Believes This 'Hurt' the patient?!  Would You enjoy being stuck seven times?? Totally WRONG...Practice on an Orange, NOT a person...Wow, I let my new nurses try twice, only after showing me they knew the procedure. Not a good way for 'new' nurses to learn our occupation at all.

[Kooky Korky, BSN, RN]

On 1/21/2021 at 4:25 PM, Wuzzie said:

So far nobody has answered my question regarding the necessity of the IVs being attempted in sedated patients. This leads me to believe that there are nurses and students who are using living human beings as some sort of uber cool sim-lab. I am so angry and disgusted right now. What if it was your family member or friend. What would you think about someone doing that to them?  How do you know they can’t feel it? Just because they don’t move? Where has our morality gone? Our humanity? If you are doing this...STOP IT! If some idiot nurse offers it to you refuse and report. Sedated, vulnerable humans are not there to be our guinea pigs. It’s sick. There are anonymous reporting lines at every institution for things like this. For God’s sake we’re nurses we should be  better than this. 

She got her head bitten off for telling the Coordinator it had happened.  I think that Coordinator needs to be reported to the licensing Board.  How dare this miserable witch jump down the throat of a student?

And the nurse who initiated this whole situation needs to be investigated.  That is did she know that the students weren't supposed to do IV's?  If she did but still gave them the chance to do an IV start, she needs to be reprimanded.

As a student, I was afraid to breathe.  And here this gal goes and knowingly violates a rule.

[Kooky Korky, BSN, RN]

WAs the 7th stick successful?

Was the pt in pain during these sticks?

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

1 hour ago, Kooky Korky said:

WAs the 7th stick successful?

Was the pt in pain during these sticks?

What's the difference?  The OP was performing something she wasn't permitted to do.