Stephen K. Bannon Finally Indicted

subee, MSN, CRNA · Nov 20, 2021

On 11/17/2021 at 4:44 PM, chare said:

Thank you. I agree that many on the rightu don't realize the gravity of the situation; however, and it seems to me that some (many) on the left are either unwilling or unable, to acknowledge the fact that many of us on the right do understand this. I posted this question to @SummerGarden as I am tired, again, of the posts being that include all on the right, conservative, and Republican in the same group and would like for her or him to clarify.

Still waiting on @SummerGarden to answer.

Hopefully Summer Garden will respond. But I get what she is saying. A true conservative wouldn't have voted for Trump because he was not a conservative, nor did he have any understanding of conservative principles. He saddled us with more debt with his ridiculous tax cut which meant the most money went to the people who didn't need it and just pocketed it as opposed to investing it back into the economy. We knew far in advance of the election that Trump had no respect for our constitution and that a crisis would have to be averted. So no, thinking Republicans didn't vote for Trump because they didn't want to be represented by loons.

chare · Nov 20, 2021

20 minutes ago, subee said:

Hopefully Summer Garden will respond. But I get what she is saying. A true conservative wouldn't have voted for Trump because he was not a conservative, nor did he have any understanding of conservative principles. ...

Yes, hopefully @SummerGarden will reply. However, since you did, and you "get what she is saying," what exactly do you think she is saying here?

On 11/16/2021 at 11:17 PM, SummerGarden said:

[...]

Trump was/is a dictator and tyrant wannabe. Our US Constitution, our institutions that align with our democratic values, and those of us who actually believe in the US Constitution and our democratic institutions, stopped him and his cronies with our votes. Nothing else. No one else [emphasis added]!

toomuchbaloney · Nov 20, 2021

11 minutes ago, chare said:

Yes, hopefully @SummerGarden will reply. However, since you did, and you "get what she is saying," what exactly do you think she is saying here?

I

13 minutes ago, chare said:

Trump was/is a dictator and tyrant wannabe. Our US Constitution, our institutions that align with our democratic values, and those of us who actually believe in the US Constitution and our democratic institutions, stopped him and his cronies with our votes. Nothing else. No one else [emphasis added]!

I'll chime in...I believe she is saying that Trump lost because people saw his candidacy as a threat to the republic and the constitution and voted against that threat. Those people valued the constitution and democratic institutions more than they valued Trump as a politician or political leader and so they voted against him. There are lots of people who may value our Constitution or our institutions in theory but they were and remain unable to discern the threat that Trump and his agenda represents to the country. I believe that's because of indoctrination.

subee, MSN, CRNA · Nov 20, 2021

1 hour ago, toomuchbaloney said:

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I'll chime in...I believe she is saying that Trump lost because people saw his candidacy as a threat to the republic and the constitution and voted against that threat. Those people valued the constitution and democratic institutions more than they valued Trump as a politician or political leader and so they voted against him. There are lots of people who may value our Constitution or our institutions in theory but they were and remain unable to discern the threat that Trump and his agenda represents to the country. I believe that's because of indoctrination.

Thank you TMB. You said it better than I could:) "Our" side doesn't weaponize the Constitution to create mischief or hardship.

chare · Nov 20, 2021

2 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

I'll chime in...I believe she is saying that Trump lost because people saw his candidacy as a threat to the republic and the constitution and voted against that threat. ...

Perhaps. Both you and @subee have posted what you think she was saying. If that's what @SummerGarden was trying to say I don't think she was very clear in doing so.

Again, perhaps she will come back and clarify.

Beerman, BSN · Nov 25, 2021

its still too early to see how the results pan out over the long run.

You do realize many democrats are now against rolling back his "ridiculous" tax cuts, don't you?

toomuchbaloney · Nov 25, 2021

1 hour ago, Beerman said:

its still too early to see how the results pan out over the long run.

You do realize many democrats are now against rolling back his "ridiculous" tax cuts, don't you?

It's panning out this way...Bannon is indicted and has no chance of claiming executive privilege to protect himself from accountability.

Why don't you provide a link so that we can discuss what "many democrats are now against"? I say that because most of us understand that the GOP is quite comfortable spending obscene amounts of money every year on the military budget...even as we end wars their budget is increased. But the GOP is opposed to investing a fraction of that same amount (over 10 years) to improve the lives of working class Americans, and their persistence in speaking about the costs rather than the benefits is working to make people wary. Besides, it's normal for there to be differences of opinion about complex topics within a political party. Groups allow different opinions and thinking...cults do not. You could ask Liz Cheney about that.

Republican lawmakers and political leaders haven't yet seemed to figure out that allowing a pandemic to run through your population is not fiscally responsible nor is it evidence that they value life.

Hannahbanana, BSN, MSN · Nov 26, 2021

On 11/25/2021 at 11:28 AM, toomuchbaloney said:

Bannon is indicted and has no chance of claiming executive privilege to protect himself from accountability.

I saw in today's paper that he is asking for public disclosure of all documents related to the investigation and indictment. I can't think why, unless he thinks they'll be exculpatory, he's using it as leverage to get others to start stepping up, he's got a trove of fake douments that he can seed into the file, or he's lost his ever-lovin' mind.

On 11/25/2021 at 11:28 AM, toomuchbaloney said:

Republican lawmakers and political leaders haven't yet seemed to figure out that allowing a pandemic to run through your population is not fiscally responsible nor is it evidence that they value life.

It's also somewhat (!) counterintuitive to have your most fanatical supporter population killing itself off by refusing the vaccine for a preventable / mitigatable illness. But hey. Let's let them be them.

toomuchbaloney · Nov 26, 2021

2 hours ago, Hannahbanana said:

I saw in today's paper that he is asking for public disclosure of all documents related to the investigation and indictment. I can't think why, unless he thinks they'll be exculpatory, he's using it as leverage to get others to start stepping up, he's got a trove of fake douments that he can seed into the file, or he's lost his ever-lovin' mind.

It's also somewhat (!) counterintuitive to have your most fanatical supporter population killing itself off by refusing the vaccine for a preventable / mitigatable illness. But hey. Let's let them be them.

This was an interesting development. I do think that Bannon wants to try to put polish on a pig by dressing up propaganda in a Congressional hearing as evidence of something besides exactly how dangerous he is when power adjacent.

Yes, leave them to the consequences of their covid folly. Except I do care if my countrymen weaken themselves and our country by giving in to propagandists and charlatans. It's a conundrum. How do we sternly reject their politics and social policy while understanding that their media has been telling them that liberals hate them and not triggering that "conditioning"?

Hannahbanana, BSN, MSN · Nov 27, 2021

4 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

How do we sternly reject their politics and social policy while understanding that their media has been telling them that liberals hate them and not triggering that "conditioning"?

I think it’s kinda related to the idea behind breaking up segregated schools, being/having exchange students, being in the Peace Corps, being a Freedom Rider, and the like.

When each can see the other living our lives, talking about our kids, car repair, weeding, unplugging the sink, balancing the checkbook, driving the carpool, shopping for food, volunteering for Scouts or whatever, all the mundanities of life, they glimpse that we aren’t what they were taught to fear. Familiarity does not breed contempt, it can facilitate a sort of enlightenment.

I know I’m giving away my age here and some would mock this for hopeless boomer naïveté, but it’s the only way to change prejudice, to see what we have in common is so much more than what we disagree on.

toomuchbaloney · Nov 27, 2021

11 hours ago, Hannahbanana said:

I know I’m giving away my age here and some would mock this for hopeless boomer naïveté, but it’s the only way to change prejudice, to see what we have in common is so much more than what we disagree on.

How do we overcome the social media that elevates division and animus as a business model?

Hannahbanana, BSN, MSN · Nov 27, 2021

3 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

How do we overcome the social media that elevates division and animus as a business model?

As an editor I’m on the mailing list for the Columbia Journalism Review, and this is a topic of much concern in the legitimate journalism community, along c the false-equivalency fallacy we’ve discussed before. The profession is beginning to recognize how they were manipulated into this, with very unfortunate results for our democracy as well as to our collective mental health.

Recent research indicates that fully 70% of the most divisive and racist comments on social media on COVID, Arbery, and Rittenhouse, e.g., on Fakebook and Twitter, were from bots from overseas (not US) accounts by use of country-of-origin tracing; it took a bit more forensics to identify which non-US countries, but (surprise!) they were mostly Russia, Estonia, China, and other countries where strong-man government is on the rise. The posts casting aspersions on elections, journalism, and government to decrease trust in those bedrock institutions have similar origins.

How these bots (and the bogus “news media” that rush to promulgate their contents) would magnify harmful effects on our democracy and society in general is clear. Who would benefit by weakening the world’s most notable democracy by attacking its most important institutions? Three guesses.

Better attention to these bots by the entities who facilitate them by allowing their lies to pollute the public airways would therefore go a long way towards better internet hygiene, societal comity, and strength where we need it most: in faith that we can do what we need to do to keep our democracy strong and help it promote nascent democracy around the world. As individuals, we can call it out where we see it… and oddly, ridicule works, too.