Stealing drugs!! what's your opinion?????

teeituptom, BSN, RN · Jan 10, 2004

Wow, I should have had my flame retardent suit on here.

And Lemomhead, let me assure you my eyes are open. Ive had LASIK done and my vision is quite clear. So is my mind. And I would tell you of a couple of instances that my eyes were wide open to if they didnt violate HIPPA.

But one thing is certain and that is we can agree to disagree and thats cool with me. Plenty of room in nursing for all of us. I agree with you the often addicted nurses rate very high in intelligence, why else would they be able to get away with what they do over such a long period of time. But do I want one of them working alongside of me anymore, NO. Do I want one taking care of a family member, again NO. Do I even want one takeing care of me even. NO. So if I feel that way about loved ones, why shouldnt I feel that way towards my patients. Dont they also deserve the same amount of caring as any member of my family. I personally tend to think they do.

And as far as that one nurse you described, guess what. Nursing is a TRUST. Once that trust is violated by being caught stealing drugs then that trust which had been hard earned is thereby forfieted. They have harmed patients, they have out pts at risk for harm, patients have suffered do to inadequate medication. This really a very simple issue.

We are here to discuss beliefs and we are entitled to our beliefs. Ive had a long lifetime to grow into these beliefs as you have grown into yours. And just think how boring life would be if everyone agreed on everything. That would be no fun at all.

Now Im going to put on my FLAME retardent suit ha ha ha.

Love

Peace

goodwill on earth

Doo wah ditty

Tweety, BSN, RN · Jan 10, 2004

Originally posted by teeituptom
We are here to discuss beliefs and we are entitled to our beliefs. Ive had a long lifetime to grow into these beliefs as you have grown into yours.

That's not possible when I'm right and you are wrong.

:rotfl: j/k

LilgirlRN, ADN, RN · Jan 10, 2004

sorta like he's entitled to his own opinion, even if it's wrong, Tweety? lol :)

Lemonhead · Jan 10, 2004

Yep, agreeing to disagree is what it's all about..however....sometimes a person has to take it one step beyond agreeing to disagree when ignorance and a lack of understanding is blatant.

A nurse violating trust? Hmmm. And no second chances? Pretty severe thinking --and of course, in my opinion. However, the fact is, we are all human and prone to make mistakes, lack good judgement and act inappropriately. So, are nurses now superhuman and above mistakes? Quite frankly, I can't think of a single profession that expects perfections.

Some of our mistakes are worse than others, but even the worst of criminals are given an opportunity to "rehabilitate" and re-enter the world---but, in your opinion--once chance for a nurse? Regardless of circumstance, action, result and conseqences? Wow, that's sad.

Would I want a recovered nurse caring for me--one that has proven she is clean and is living a life free of drugs---you betcha--because in all likelyhood, this nurse has gone through some extremely tough, extremely mentally stimulating and extremely hard circumstances to prove to the world that she is worthy of holding that golden license again in her hands. This nurse has been humbled to a degree that you could never understand. This nurse can now look at the "worst of the worst" with compassion and understanding, rather than judgement and disgust. This nurse has learned to fuel anxiety, frustration and anger in productive ways and this nurse has been forced to handle some of the hardest stressors in life--and I ain't talkin' on the job. This nurse can look at another person and see fear, anxiety and sadness in a whole different light--and treat it in a whole different light as well. This nurse has learned compassion through her own nightmarish experiences and this nurse is paying more attention to detail than anyone. This nurse is far more conscientous--both out of fear and out of respect...fear of making just one mistake that will destroy her career, and respect for the patients that she may have been in harms way previously---This nurse also is going to have a whole new set of priorities--and it's not going to be giving report, getting a smoke break or charting on time--she's no longer kissing a physician's or manager's ass to climb the ladder---In addition, this nurse is most likely being watched like a hawk --- she is most likely providing random drug samples, meeting with the Board on a regular basis, seeing a counselor on a regular basis and having more paperwork requirements to her state board, than you have in nursing documentation in a lifetime in your career.

So Tom, all I can say--if you don't want this nurse caring for your child..perhaps you'll get the one that won't touch a patient till she's had her smoke break, or one that makes up blood pressures or charts that a person is sleeping, rather than walk in the room. Maybe your child will have the nurse that is too proud to admit she's a mathematical flunkie and administers the med with the wrong dose, while charting the correct dose. Maybe your brother will have the nurse that has never gotten caught making a mistake and doesn't have a clue about pain, humility and struggling. Maybe your dad will have the nurse that sees him as nothing more than a paycheck. Maybe your mom will have the nurse that is too afraid to call the doc in the middle of the night and wake him, regardless of her slowly deteriorating condition. Maybe your uncle'll have the nurse that slaps on a monitor and doesn't walk back in to the room for the next 4 hours unless it alarms. Maybe your child will have the nurse that grabs a phone and calls a few friends to talk about your child's condition.

Wake up Tom--the world is full of incompetent, uncaring, uneducated and careless nurses---and at least the addicted nurse, is owning up to her mistakes and willing to go to almost any length to return to one of the most important things in her life and prove that she is worthy of caring for patients once again. And those "lengths" are far more intense and involved than you could possibly understand.

Agree to disagree? No, I would not stop it there--that would defeat the purpose.

sic and tired · Jan 10, 2004

Tom

Hopefully the place where you have your family or yourself is wise enough to maintain a nurses confidentiality. And if you want the best care then hopefully she has a nurse who is in recovery and not the one that hasn't been caught yet. Hopefully she has a nurse who has trudged the road to happy destiny and come out the other side where her priorities are not being complacent but doing the best she/ he can for their patients.

There are people who suffer from addiction in all occupations and all walks of life. Once they have admitted to their difficulties and found a way to fix them, whether that be mental health, addiction, or any one of those fixable illnesses then I believe that another chance is warranted, and in most cases earned. Those who are being monitored are being watched more so than any other nurse on the floor. They know they must excell just to be found competent. They have to see others with the same difficulties. In most cases they are dropping random urines on at least a weekly basis, seeing a therapist or meeting with someone from the board, and having letters written as to their complians, as well as attending meetings to face their problems head on. And not hide in the sand. As a manager some of the best nurses that I have had have been those in recovery.

So agree to disagree... well only on one point. You may see this as something other than a disease. But to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Well if we did that, given the number of addicted professionals who are now working under contracts and having completed contracts. Well the nursing shortage would be such that we would have to close facilities and have housekeeping take over nursing jobs. So the althernative, well I for one will take the recoving nurse. Tell you what, you send them to me, and I will send you all of the nurses that just get by, that sit on their butts instead of answering lights, and the ones who show up for a paycheck and not to help out. those are the ones that I have difficulty with.

vanburbian · Jan 11, 2004

lemonhead, and sicandtired....

i couldn't have said it better myself, and thank you for pointing out the fact that many people are ALREADY working with nurses, physicians, pharmacists, etc. that are in a monitoring program, unbeknownst to their fellow staff members.

touche~

Big Bab's · Jan 11, 2004

Sheesh!!....I'm gone for a few days and I missed allllll this!!!....Well, I'll just say that Lemonhead, sicandtired, Lilgirl...etc.....Said everything I would have said!!...You're better off hiring or working with a nurse in a monitoring program, they have PROOF of their abstinance from drugs ON PAPER!!!....What more do you need?!?!......I would take these nurses over the rest anyday, to take care of me or my family.....and I'll tell you this!!....A vast majority of my patients KNOW about me and what I've been thru and NOT ONE has EVER expressed any "problem" with me treating them, if anything its been exactly the opposite!!....I've had a number of patients that were glad because "finally I have somebody I can talk to about my/my friends/my family member's problem with drugs/alcohol!".....If anything, it has made me a MUCH better and more compassionate nurse!!!!:)

RN30years · Feb 28, 2004

So what do you think fellow nurses??... lets open this up again .... should nurses who have used a narcotic ... or smoked THC... or who are NAA members! be ban from nursing for life. how many nurses do you know who might rather have a occasional davocet for a headach than a tylenol? I'm not saying its right to steal or right to take drugs when they are not prescribed. but if I take one of my husbands vicodan i can loose my nursing Lic.??? (it's not prescibed for me) but should nurses suffer forever if they do something like this? I know of nurses who had a positive drug screen for opiates after taking percocet after a hysterectomy? she came back to wk at 4 wks and was called in for a drug test because there was a discrepancy w/ the narc cabinet... drug screen showed opiates ...It took her six months and her gyn surgeon and an attorney to clear her, as she was taking percoet occassionally at night as she was still having some incisional pain. I have heard from nurses who have been drug free for over 10 years and are still suffering the rath of State Boards I wonder why there is a shortage... don't ever take a pain pill if you are a nurse....

Tutti · Feb 28, 2004

Where I work, I believe my Employer is very understanding. I've never had the problem myself, but I know of a co-worker who did. He was under alot of stress at the time, and had deaths in the family, etc. My employer paid for his re-hab, let him come back to work, took the narc keys out of his hands for a year. He's doign great and I am proud of him. He is very open and honest about what he has gone through and we are all supportive of him. He's an excellent nurse by the way! I would let him treat me any day!

~Tutti~

sic and tired · Feb 28, 2004

For many who have been monitored, there are safeguards for licenses as well as recovery. If one is in recovery those safeguards are easy. I have not been monitored for several years now, HOWEVER, part of the relapse prevention plan that was set up included notifying my therapist of any medication issues. She knows when a physician prescribes anything for me, and not just narcotics. If a physician isn't doing the prescribing and safeguards for sobriety are not in place then the person is in trouble already. My friend has her sponsor as someone who knows all of her meds. She has not been monitored for many years either and when there was a discrepancy on her unit they looked at her. She had had dental work. Because she had a relapse plan her sponsor had the documentation of the script, MD, when filled, etc. and documentation that they discarded the remainder of the RX together. Needless to say she was exonerated quite shortly. The suggestion stemming from all of this was when there is a discrepancy now on the unit, that is not resolved in 8 hours, any of the staff on the unit in the last 24 hours are tested. The ones in solid recovery won't have a problem with that.

so punished. I think not. Watched, yes and with good reason. part of my recovery is I am still watching the chemicals that go into my body. :uhoh21: The state board is there for the patients. Again my belief is that if someone is in solid recovery, then they have nothing to fear from the board, and their patients have nothing to fear. it is those who are not being monitored and still have not been discovered that cause the most worry.

So what do you think fellow nurses??... lets open this up again .... should nurses who have used a narcotic ... or smoked THC... or who are NAA members! be ban from nursing for life. how many nurses do you know who might rather have a occasional davocet for a headach than a tylenol? I'm not saying its right to steal or right to take drugs when they are not prescribed. but if I take one of my husbands vicodan i can loose my nursing Lic.??? (it's not prescibed for me) but should nurses suffer forever if they do something like this? I know of nurses who had a positive drug screen for opiates after taking percocet after a hysterectomy? she came back to wk at 4 wks and was called in for a drug test because there was a discrepancy w/ the narc cabinet... drug screen showed opiates ...It took her six months and her gyn surgeon and an attorney to clear her, as she was taking percoet occassionally at night as she was still having some incisional pain. I have heard from nurses who have been drug free for over 10 years and are still suffering the rath of State Boards I wonder why there is a shortage... don't ever take a pain pill if you are a nurse....

heart queen · Feb 29, 2004

Well to respond to what do I think?

I KNOW that I can't guarentee what tomorrow will bring to my life. I can't guarentee that this couldn't happen to me or anyone I know or love.

I also know that should, God forbid I ever fight an addiction, like my cigarettes and coffee :rolleyes: , that I couldn't recover, be functional and yet trust worthy and safe again, after I've proved myself only to want to practice again.

Yes, every addict allowed back to nursing scares the hell out of me, so does that thought that because of a past addiction, our profession could miss out on some of the best nurses out there. I'm willing to take that chance, provided close monitoring con't. with the BON. I'm not so quick to say hell no! It could easily be me or a friend, ya just never know

teeituptom, BSN, RN · Feb 29, 2004

I guess that was heart felt :rotfl: :rotfl: