Stealing drugs!! what's your opinion?????

Tweety, BSN, RN · Jan 9, 2004

Tom, I agree with you. To say "I've relapsed because I have a disease" does take away the personal responsibility the addict has once she/he has been detoxed and been offered the chance to maintain a nursing license.

I still believe that the addiction process is a chemical one, thus a disease. But the responsiblity for relapse lies squarely on the addict.

stressednurse · Jan 9, 2004

There will always be drug seekers, addicts and idiots in nursing as they are everywhere in life. What we as a society do with them after they break the rules, break the law, leave someone in pain, sometimes kill someone because of their altered status is up to us.

To all the lemonheads out there, go for it... this is a free country. Tell your tale and hope for the best.

Oh yeh, this is a free country and you don't get a sentence of maimed or dead for doing something someone else higher in the pecking order dosen't like.

Be thankful for that and be kind in the future.

sandyth · Jan 9, 2004

This med-tech isnt the addict herself. She gets the oxycontin for her dad to snort and gives the cancer pt an aspirin. So I am very firm that her facility is just covering the whole issue up. Like I said i also have tubes of meds with the pts name and room# and facility name. (HIPPA) I just have a really big problem with this.

Lemonhead · Jan 9, 2004

So, Tom, let me get this straight--you're in the field, you're familiar with the TPAPN, you've worked with addicts, yet you believe all nurses that have used, abused or become addicted should be banned? Well, let's say, hypothetically, you're wish became reality--prepare to work alone for a VERY long time.

This problem is not going to go away, it's going to continue and it's going to get worse until close minded folks such as yourself, open your eyes and your minds and realize, it can happen to ANYONE---and we are NOT all the same--just as with any other condition, some recover, some don't--period. If you chose to lump every nurse in to the "addict" category, you are NOT familiar with addiction issues--but then again, you did say you were familiar with the 12 steps, and as I've stated before, that is one track thinking and very dangerous. Apparently you have not read all of these threads--some of these nurses in these programs were not doing anything illegal, using on the job or jeopardizing patient safety, yet, as you have, the Boards lump them right in there with the nurses that steal drugs to sell or the nurses that tamper resulting in patient harm.

The majority of nurses that use are NOT sociopaths or career criminals. They do not use without a conscience or thought--they know they are doing something wrong, but it's out of control. As opposed to the most recent nurse criminal that got off on killing patients--a career criminal that had no conscience. Many of them have long, successful and safe careers and through a moment of impaired thinking, fall into a nightmare--should 25 years of safe and successful nursing count for nothing? How would you "punish" this person--nurse for 24 years, steals Dilaudid for 4 months prior to getting caught. No criminal history. 4 children, married for 30+ years, supportive working husband--otherwise, a completely stable and successful life and a model citizen and following treatment, hasn't had a drug in over 8 years--you do not think she is recoverable to the point that she could return to nursing, in a med access area and be safe? What would it take for someone such as yourself to give this person a second chance? Of course, you've already made it clear you do not believe in second chances.

When sic and tired stated "nurses eat their young", that has EVERYTHING do to with this issue. Your comments were a perfect example of the "don't try to help a peer" attitude--and it's rampant in nursing and has everything to do with this---it adds to the stress of the job, it adds to the lack of support and in the end, it adds to the attitudes that you have blatantly displayed.

As for the comment regarding relapses and someone blaming it on their managers--what?? Who's blaming? I interpreted it as that a supportive working environment does wonders for recovery--but ANY support does wonders for recovery.

Tom, you are naive and you are misinformed. You could have credentials out the ying-yang and 1000 years of management experience, in the end, it means nothing--you are just as susceptible as I am, as your children are and as your best friend is--don't put yourself on that pedestal--someone/something WILL knock you off of it---and until you've "been there, done that" or until you open your mind and your eyes, you'll never get it. I was almost as judgemental, clueless and close minded as you--and let me tell ya Tom--when you hear the word, "what goes around, comes around"....believe it---

PS, I, too, am familiar with the TPAPN--and they would not be real thrilled with your opinions as they have invested YEARS of time and energy to successfully rehabilitate nurses AND return them to the field. Better start looking over your shoulder, because you are probably working with a few recovered nurses---better yet, why not just open your mind, get over the paranoia and accept that many of us are rehabilitated and SAFE.

Lemonhead · Jan 9, 2004

[i have hired a lawyer but he says we just have to wait on their findings before we can proceed. I know I made careless mistakes but feel I am the subject of a Witch hunt...why is it taking so long. I left my job on Jan 4 2003. has anyone been thru anything similar? Will I get a hearing or anything?? :confused: [/b]

I'm glad you've hired an attorney--but, is he specialized in Board issues? It does take a very long time, but a year without any information is too long. Your attorney could and should at least find out the status of your case. There are many cases that take a year to get processed, but your attorney can at least find out what stage it's in and what to expect as far as a hearing--that's what you're paying him for. If your case is considered "low risk", the Board can take forever to process it--and for nurses that they know are not working, sitting and waiting, they will not be in a huge hurry to process it. They don't have a "timeline" or "deadline", but an attorney pushing the issue can get things moving---

In addition, you can work if your license is active--and if nothing has been done yet, your license should be clear--and quite frankly, perhaps you should be working to show a clean employment record following your documentation mistakes--if there is nothing legal saying you can't work--then legally, you can work.

I know it feels like a "witch hunt" and you certainly aren't alone, but since you're paying an attorney, you should be getting some answers--and if your not, I'd be asking him why he isn't asking--

Best wishes and good luck with this situation.

sic and tired · Jan 9, 2004

Often if feels like a witch hunt. If you have an attorney I suggest that you find out if that attorney is up on Board issues for Nurses and nurse addiction. If not find one. There are many. He should be able to contact the investigating authority be it BON, Pharmacy Board or FBI and find out some sort of a status on the issue. If there has been no action on your license I suggest that you find out what the requirements are of the BON to retain a license once action is taken and start doing whatever it is. Find someplace that does chain of custody drops and start getting some, randomly and your attorney should be able to help you with this. Start getting to 12 step meetings as most of the BON's require this and get slips signed. Since you don't have an official one, make one up. Any type of paper with spaces for the meeting date, time, place and a signature will do. You can also check out this link for more suggestions. http://brucienne.com/nir/

Good luck

sic and tired · Jan 9, 2004

Actually it is not the nurses being monitored that one needs to be so aware of, it is those still caught in the web of addiction, and being compromised by well meaning peers who look the other way. I no longer work as a nurse, my choice. I completed my contract and still have a valid license but because of other issues I cannot return to the type of care that I loved directly with patients. I have been in recovery for a good many years now, and one thing that I know. The nurse that I worked with enabled me by turning and looking the other way, taking over my job when I was too hung over to take care of my work load, and ignoring the fact that even though I was not drunk at work, I know that I still smelled from the night before. When I finally got to talk to some of them, they felt that they were protecting me when actually they were allowing me to get sicker. I must also disagree with you tom in that I don't think any one said that a non-supportive supervisor resulted in relapse. But from experience the more support I had the more able I was able not only to maintain recovery but more able to recognize when I needed help and ask for it. Thus the support to my recovery was instrumental in alllowing me a safe environment to maintain it. I was sober for 13 years once and had both supportive and non supportive environments to work in. And for anyone, not just addicts a supportive environment give one the best place to do the job the best.

I would hope that you take the time to explore addiction appropriately and with a more open mind. I also know that the BON of Texas has had some great successes, as had many other states. Some states have revamped their programs based on the success of other states. Wouldn't it make more sense to find out what works and support that rather than "Eating our young" by an attitude of disdain and hatred? I have found that most people with the attitude that you have expressed have some unresolved issues of addiction in their own life or families life. I am not saying that this is the case with you, so do not read into that. There are also BON's who have started requiring not only so many CEU's of ethics each year, but also CEU's about addiction and the impaired professional. Nurses are taught to care about patients. Why do we sometimes seem to hate each other so?

RN30years · Jan 9, 2004

to Lemonhead and Sic and Tired

Thank you both for your advice. My lawyer does have experience with the Medical and Nursing boards. He seems to think we wait to hear from them...but I will ask him to inquire, because I am tired of waiting. At his advice, I have had 6 tox screens since the incident. All negative of course. Should I do it more often? Thanks again for your help.

sic and tired · Jan 9, 2004

Usually Urines are done randomly. Someone must document that they notified you to get one and that you complied within a 24 hour period or they are not considered random. A therapist or an attorneys secretary can do this since you are not required yet to do them from the board. Meeting attendance is usually 3x a week. The minimum is usually at least an outpatient program of some kind, but often inpatient is recommended for nurses. An evaluation by an appropriately certified LISW with CD credientials or a PH D with credentials and then complying with their recommendations is always a benefit. Good luck. And let us know.

vanburbian · Jan 9, 2004

Originally posted by teeituptom
Hello hoopschick

Where do you work???????

Also, you seem to want to lay the blame of relapsing on lack of support from peers and supervisors. I am quite familiar with the 12 step program and also the impaired nurse program here in Texas. I also recognize its not unusual for addicts to relapse within their first year. But there is only ONE PERSON responsible for whether a nurse addict recovers or not. That is the Individual Nurse themself. No one else should be made to feel the blame for their failure. They have only themselves to blame.....

Tom,

i certainly do not lay the blame for my relapse at anyones feet besides my own, in no way did i even imply that, i only meant that a supportive work environment, especially a direct manager, is conducive to an employee remaining healthy. PERIOD. no other direct, indirect, veiled or other implication meant, not sure how that was was misconstrued....

why are you curious as to where i work? my specialty is acute care oncology, fyi. does that have anything to do with my sucess or failure as a junkie?

i can't agree more with you that there is only ONE PERSON responsible for whether an addict recovers or not, nurse, lawyer, clergyman, president or prostitute, it matters not~ it's all up to the individual.

i don't intend to argue with you, although if you want to we can debate till the cows come home, i personally love it, however, we just have 2 opinions at opposite ends of the spectrum, and as i age i have come to the realization that what may have once been black and white, is really now grey. that comes with wisdom, experience, life in general. to be so adamant in one's belief system without investigation seems to be a set up for failure. after all, the learned ones used to believe that cholera was because of the "bad fogs".....i just think that keeping an open mind is something one can be proud of while looking at the life they lived, rather than saying, i was so strong and unwavering in my opinions that i never even considered anything else.....after all, isn't there a saying that when you hear hoofbeats, don't look for the zebra, because it could be a horse???? simply put, never say never, and things aren't always as they appear. we are all individuals and deserve to be treated as such. thats all we ask.

sheri, R.N, OCN

RN30years · Jan 10, 2004

Thanks Sic and tired.

That is good advice. Three screens have been random, sched. by my attorney. but maybe I should have him call me more often. The other 3 I did on my own just because I am angry and hurt and want a record in my hand instead of my laywers office??

Also I would be more than happy to attend a twelve step program if it means saving my carreer. I have 2 sons to get through college! But I am not an abuser, I don't use drugs or alcohol. I would be glad to go.... but what do I say? Do I need to pretend I have a problem in order to remain in nursing?

If that's what it comes down to Im not sure it's worth it

sic and tired · Jan 10, 2004

There are open meetings. There are often professionals and others who come there to find out more about addiction, and its facets. family members of alcoholics and addicts. you can look for open meetings in your area, and then you can present this as a way that you have explored the possibility that some of your mistakes might have been because of familial alcoholism or etc, and not ever suggest or admit any guilt. At least by showing them that your are willing to explore possible answers you are showing them that you are willing to do what might be asked to keep your license. There are also therapists who specialize in health professionals going through these issues. Most of them either a peer assistance program, or BON program refer people to. It might also be a possiblity to explore. Especially since mental health issues can cause the mistakes that occurred. These are just suggestions based on my experience with the bon with other nursses. some with addiction, some with co-dependency and a few with mental health issues. this is what the board looked for in their cases. willingness to explore why the things that occured occured and ways to keep them from happening again. Be it get mental health treatment, attend al-anon, or another 12 step program. And documenting. Your attorney should also always give you a copy of your results and save everything. Including receipts of the times that you go and see him. Therapist receipts. They will give you copies of evals to or send them to the board with the appropriate releases.