Standardization of NP Education

Specialties NP

Published

  1. What immediate requirement will improve NP education

    • 37
      More clinical experience
    • 21
      2 years minimum admission requirement
    • 41
      Science and medicine based curriculum
    • 13
      Upgrade the DNP curriculum
    • 3
      Other

57 members have participated

Hello All,

I'm probably going to get alot of backlash from this but what can I say. I live life on the edge. These are my thoughts on the subject.

Firstly, as I browse on Allnurses occasionally, I see alot of hate towards NPs with no bedside experience. Despite being a nurse and a NP as completely different roles, several reviewers see this experience as mandatory. I can see how one can say that nursing experience can help you anticipate what to order and certain conditions but it's not an all-in-all experience to fall back on. Furthermore PAs, MDs, DO, hell even other allied health jobs don't absolutely require bedside care in order to be accepted into these programs so why be in a tizzy about NP school. I feel like is a personal matter. This notion also confirms that nurses dont even agree with the preparation that current NP schools provided.

With that being said, this requirement is at the discretion at the school but I wish there was just a straight-black-and-white standard of admission requirements so this argument can dissolve.

Secondly, even some brick-and-mortar NP schools have students find their own preceptor which is ludicrous and insulting. I'm paying money for experience that I have to seek out myself ... does not make sense. I can't name any other healthcare profession that does this. I'm sure someone will rebutle this but that's a 1%. NP schools should supply their own preceptors despite being online or on campus.

Thirdly, raising the minimum clinical hours from a mere 500 to 1000+ will add more respect to clinical aspect of NP schooling and also give the student adequate time of exposure to practice in their the new role.

NP/DNP curriculum needs dramatic reforming. The 3 P's are great. But what else can we add gross anatomy? Cadavers? I want to know what you guys think on this subject matter.

I have also seen hundreds of posts on how the DNP has no clinical significance to the profession. Disclaimer *I do not have my DNP* but I will say is after looking at numerous MSN-DNP programs all the classes are just repeat masters graduate classes with varying names per campuses. I understand the doctorate is a scholarly degree but even the clinical doctorate has a bunch of "fluff". I really appreciate the new PA doctorate curriculum as it is definitely focused on scholarly aspects of improving speciality. So my question to DNP students and graduates, what would you change about the DNP program?

What will become of NP education and what are nurse educators and NPs going to do to advocate for these changes? I'd love to hear reccomendations.

Specializes in Neurology, Psychology, Family medicine.

Hmm non starter for some I will not argue this at the moment. I don't agree that we need to accommodate as a profession for someones current lifestyle and their cost of living having to support them working full time and going to school. But besides the point, I do agree on specifics for clinical would help. I also agree the certification standards need to be raised to prevent cramming and passing. I also find it weird that at many programs the entrance BSN is tougher to get into than the MSN or DNP which blows my mind.

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Specializes in Neurology, Psychology, Family medicine.

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Hmm non starter for some I will not argue this at the moment. I don't agree that we need to accommodate as a profession for someones current lifestyle and their cost of living having to support them working full time and going to school. But besides the point, I do agree on specifics for clinical would help. I also agree the certification standards need to be raised to prevent cramming and passing. I also find it weird that at many programs the entrance BSN is tougher to get into than the MSN or DNP which blows my mind.

Not a matter of accommodating as a profession. NPs lose nothing when someone chooses part time school over full-time. You still have the same requirements to pass boards, go to clinicals, pass your classes. Some just may take longer in getting through it. The problem isn't professional lifestyle, but the basis of how nurse practitioners came about. Taking working RNs who had profound patient care experience and give them advance medical training to fulfill deficits in medical care. The programs are naturally designed around their work to improve access to classes. Take that away and the majority of new grads will have little to no RN experience because they will pipeline straight through their bsn to their msn/dnp.

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Specializes in Neurology, Psychology, Family medicine.

I understand what you are saying. But, the argument is weakened considerably when you look at the curriculums of many programs, their online open book formats, the variation of programs, and minimal requirements for consideration for acceptance. So if the arguement is RN needs to work then require X amount of years. If they don't then require no to minimal years but beef up curriculum. We can not have it both ways which is the current state of affairs unlike every other profession. Just wish I knew this before I went this route. Others need to know that NP education caters to everyone making it weak in many areas.

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Regardless, the problem exists within program quality and not whether it's full or part time. That factor isn't an implication of quality imo.

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They would also need to greatly improve the quality and credentials of many of the individuals teaching the programs.

Attracting good candidates with a lot of recent and relevant clinical experience would cost a lot more than what they are currently paying their "doctoral" instructors, many of whom have never been real NPs, at least not since the turn of this millenium.

The woman who was the head of our program was a Psych NP on paper only. She had a little experience in psychotherapy, but she wouldn't have had the slightest idea how to proceed with a seriously mentally ill person.

So you have "professors" who don't mind working for low wages for the privilege of being in academia.

I am pretty sure that medical school professors are well compensated.

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They would also need to greatly improve the quality and credentials of many of the individuals teaching the programs.

Attracting good candidates with a lot of recent and relevant clinical experience would cost a lot more than what they are currently paying their "doctoral" instructors, many of whom have never been real NPs, at least not since the turn of this millenium.

The woman who was the head of our program was a Psych NP on paper only. She had a little experience in psychotherapy, but she wouldn't have had the slightest idea how to proceed with a seriously mentally ill person.

So you have "professors" who don't mind working for low wages for the privilege of being in academia.

I am pretty sure that medical school professors are well compensated.

This, again, comes down to students being careful about the schools they choose, IMO. In my graduate program (the entire school, not just my specialty track), nearly all of the faculty maintained part-time clinical practices in addition to their teaching responsibilities. Many of them were nationally known figures (internationally known, in some cases) in their specialties. Some of them edited nursing journals in their specialty in addition to their teaching and clinical responsibilities, and they were all active in professional organizations. The faculty and school administrators who were not practicing at all clinically were people who had gone in that direction professionally years earlier, and taught the non-clinical courses and/or administered the school. There were no faculty of which I was aware that were teaching anything clinical (didactic/lecture or providing clinical supervision) who were not currently clinically active themselves. Those programs are "out there" if you go looking for them, and if you're willing to be inconvenienced to attend a strong program (I moved to another part of the country to attend my graduate program, and then moved back home after I graduated).

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You know what really grinds my gears? The fact that we have to find our own clinical sites and preceptors yet they charge us up to 1400 per credit hour. Also I want less fluff classes and for my classes to be a little more like PA school with clinical sites. PA/NPs share resident spots when we graduate why cant we share spots in our areas with MD/DO/PA/NPs to give us greater access to sites and opportunities? Plus the 1000+ hours would be better in my opinion to help us get ready.

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Think of it this way...

NP training is market driven. There is a strong market for NPs, and a large pool of nurses who wish to be NPs. Schools compete based on the flexibility and ease of their programs. As long as a school maintains accreditation, there is a huge incentive to compress and streamline training. As long as there is a large population of nurses who want to become NPs, schools do not have to invest in preceptor coordination etc. There is little incentive for accrediting bodies to crack down on schools, because the more schools that offer the training, the larger they are reimbursed in fees.

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I am talking extensive self preparation. Going home every night and asking yourself what, what, what, and why, why, why. Until you make the information your own.

There are some parts of your post that I don't have enough experience to have a good perspective on. But THIS connected with me and is inspiring! I'm a new nurse who is considering NP school in the distant future. Curiosity, hard work, and lifelong learning are great goals for me right now. Thanks for that!

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I've never understood why nurses will happily accept a PA who has no clinical experience whatsoever and starts to practice in their early 20s, but will chew apart a nurse that goes directly to NP school from their bachelors degree. Nurses need to calm down with the negativity towards others in their profession.

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Specializes in Neurology, Psychology, Family medicine.
I've never understood why nurses will happily accept a PA who has no clinical experience whatsoever and starts to practice in their early 20s, but will chew apart a nurse that goes directly to NP school from their bachelors degree. Nurses need to calm down with the negativity towards others in their profession.

It's very easy to see the difference in education if you take the eduction from mint PA and mint direct Bsn to np. In rigor, admission criteria and clinical experience. Let's not kid ourselves.

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