I very often read posts on this board which complain about the staff nurses. I was a nursing student, too, and I know that such criticisms can be valid but you should know that a lot of us really dig having students around and look for opportunities for you to learn.
I work mid-shift (which means that my shift overlaps both days and nights) and I recently was helping out a colleague who had a student assigned to her. We had just intubated a patient and were tending to our post-tube tasks (e.g. OG tube, Foley, etc).
The student was just standing at the end of the bed so I looked at him and said, "Alright, time to do an OG tube."
He responded, "Um, I don't know if I'm allowed to when my instructor isn't around."
I replied, "Well, I don't know either. Please close the curtain and either come in or step out."
He closed the curtain and tentatively stepped inside at which point my colleague handed him the OG kit. He stepped up to the HOB and we talked a bit about NG vs OG, indications and contraindications, followed by guidance as to what to do.
A couple of minutes later, he'd dropped his first OG on an intubated patient.
I still don't know if he was or was not allowed by his program to drop the tube but those opportunities are relatively rare and I figured he should take advantage of it when it presented itself...
So, young Padawans, know that some of us staff nurses are actually invested in your learning... not because we have to but because we like to.
Dudette 10... They aren't your patients, you don't own them... And you need to remember how litigious this country is.... Precedence is set with first times, and there is a first time for everything.
Oh, good lord. You know what I meant about them being my patients. My responsibility, under my watch, my assignment, whatever.
So, how do you expect students to learn? If I go by your fear-mongering, I shouldn't even allow them to do med passes. After all, that's the number one error done by nurses. Instructors commit med errors too, you know...
Specializes in Critical Care, Med-Surg, Psych, Geri, LTC, Tele,.
They are MY patients, in case you've forgotten. So, yes, I DO decide when a student performs a new skill on MY patient...If any instructor decided to allow a student to do a skill on my patient without my knowledge, the instructor and I would be having a little talk. These patients are not the instructor's patients nor the student's patients. They are mine, and I am responsible for them for 12 hours on that day.
If I'm assuming care of a patient, then damn skippy they are MY patient... Many things we are so certain of as a student have a funny way of changing once we leave the nest and we get some air under our wings.
One more thing... If the OPs intent was to facilitate a learning environment, the alternative to perform this skill, wouldn't be close the curtain on your way out. I'm sure the OP offered that part for climactic element to his post, but if that was an actual scenario, it was a poor decision...bottom line. Now stop arguing that it wasn't, or we will be forced to open up discussions regarding universal minimum educational requirements for nurses.
I love to teach, and I love to learn. However, I have to admit that I come down on the side of the folks expressing concern about this learning opportunity potentially being outside the nursing student's scope and possibly putting them at risk for disciplinary action by their program- and, going further, I actually cringed a little when reading the OP because my kneejerk reaction was that this was wholly inappropriate.
Sorry, Song In My Heart, I do have a tremendous amount of respect for you and I enjoy your posts- I like you, and I am NOT joining the "dog pile" here, but I disagree with you on this one.
Is this thread seriously for real? Nurses getting upset over the fact that students won't break the rules?? Wow...
This has nothing to do with not being motivated, not wanting to take charge of my education, or stepping up to the plate, or being "brave". It has everything to do with not getting kicked out of my program. Period, end of story.
Student nurses and new grads seemed d*mned if they do, and d*mned if they don't around this place. Sheesh.
Thats true, but when I was a nursing student..applied pressure like that would scare me and terrify me that the nurse will tell my instructor I declined a skill, am lazy, don't want to learn, etc. Pressure puts a lot of scared/stressed feelings on a student, especially in an unfamiliar environment and most likely the reason that poor guy did it after being uncertain and risked his diploma.
If a nursing student risks losing his/her diploma, then the student is an idiot. Students are all over this board whining about how nurses in clinicals won't pay attention to them and don't want them around, then we have a well respected member of this board tell a story about a teaching moment, and there are nurses and students getting their panties in a bunch over it.
If you're a nursing student in a hospital, and you don't know exactly what you're allowed to do, just go ahead and drop out. And if you're so afraid to tell someone no that you're willing to risk expulsion, then you should drop out then, too.
I'm lucky that I'm in a unit where we get to hand pick which students we have. We end up with bright, enthusiastic, and hard working people who can't believe they're getting to hang out in the CVICU.
I just can't believe people are getting so upset over a nurse offering to teach a student at clinicals!
Is this thread seriously for real? Nurses getting upset over the fact that students won't break the rules?? Wow...
This has nothing to do with not being motivated, not wanting to take charge of my education, or stepping up to the plate, or being "brave". It has everything to do with not getting kicked out of my program. Period, end of story.
Student nurses and new grads seemed d*mned if they do, and d*mned if they don't around this place. Sheesh.
Nobody is asking a student to break the rules. But nurses do expect students to be able to hold themselves accountable, and not expect all the adults around them who are busy working 12 hour shifts for a living to do it for them.
I promise you won't be "damned" if you tell a nurse you're not checked off on a procedure yet, but would still like to watch.
Nurses are way, WAY too busy to be putting any effort into sabotaging someone else's education.
Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
My different angle was just meant to spruce up a little out of the box direction to the post... The way I see it , how many times can we say that the OP took advantage of an opportunity to educate , and in doing so, became an awesome nurse for nursing students everywhere... Or, the obvious, the OP put a student in a precarious spot of furthering skills at the risk of possible dismissal to a program. Essentially, how many different ways can we say the same thing... So I brought the gender issue into the post, to break up the monotony...Oops, what was I thinking, that's not a real world issue right. And to the person that said the OP is a male blah, blah, blah.... Yeah, males never take advantage of opportunities to try and put other males on the spot
no...I don't get it. I am not feeling it at all. The OP mentioned that the student was male as a part of the story...they could have been a purple alien and the story is the same. A nurse offering a learning experience to a nursing student. Nothing more nothing less. I personally don't think controversy for the sake of controversy, and derail a thread, is necessary.
I think it is sad that nursing schools have made a conscious decision to put braces on students brains. I think song in my heart is a great nurse that contributes positively on AN and enjoy his posts.
I'm truly saddened by much of the content of this thread. And as a staff nurse in a large, tertiary-care academic medical center and frequent preceptor to nursing students from six, yes six, different programs, I'd like to provide some insight for those of you who either are students and *have not yet had clinical experiences*, or nurses who do not have frequent contact with students.
The bulk of student clinicals are of course in inpatient units as that setting provides the greatest opportunity to see a wide variety of patients, diagnoses, interventions and outcomes while teaching the basics of the flow of care in an acute care setting. Exposure to specialty units serves a different educational purpose, and the value of student rotations in the ED (note that the OP works in the ED) is widely recognized to be 1) observation of the differential diagnosis part of critical thinking and 2) a far greater opportunity to build hands on skills than is typically present during a clinical day on an inpatient unit. Student instructors are not present in the ED.
What I am reading in this thread is a recurring theme of fear: fear stemming from uncertainty regarding what students are permitted to do under supervision, fear of actually taking initiative, and even fear of decision-making. More than one post has referenced the "poor student" who had to make a decision whether or not to receive hands-on procedural instruction. This boggles my mind, and frankly does not bode well for students who will very shortly be employed as licensed nurses, making moment to moment decisions in the course of any day. If you find the thought of saying "thank you, but I'm not sure I am permitted to try that procedure so I'd rather just observe" so troubling ... how will you question an order? Guide a patient and/or family through their own decision-making regarding treatment? Redirect someone who is acting out? Mentally sort through a thousand details to prioritize patient care right now?
When I was in nursing school (2007-2009), by second semester, we were allowed to do anything that the staff nurse was willing to supervise and assume responsibility for.
But he didn't. He asked, the student said s/he didn't know if they were allowed, and OP gave them the option of staying or leaving while the OG was inserted. If the student were truly concerned, s/he had the option of leaving while the OP inserted the OG. Should the emergently-intubated-with-a-possibly-full-stomach pt have waited to have the OG inserted while the student tried to track down the instructor? And why didn't the student know? When I was in school, our instructors were usually very clear beforehand about what we were allowed to do and not do. On the rare occasion that they were not clear, we...asked.
Side note--this post is directed not specifically at RNdynamic, but everyone who disputed the OP's actions. This reply quoted below is simply the first one.
This is stupid. Please don't prompt students to perform procedures that they are unsure if they are permitted to do. It's really, really inappropriate. I would have wanted my instructor present for my first insertion of a feeding tube. Also, half the staff nurses in my clinicals (way back when I was in school) ratted you out to your instructors if you didn't perform up to par, and you would get an unsatisfactory score if they said something bad about you. It happened to me, and because of that, I did the least possible to get by -- just so I wouldn't get in trouble.
dudette10, MSN, RN
3,530 Posts
Oh, good lord. You know what I meant about them being my patients. My responsibility, under my watch, my assignment, whatever.
So, how do you expect students to learn? If I go by your fear-mongering, I shouldn't even allow them to do med passes. After all, that's the number one error done by nurses. Instructors commit med errors too, you know...