Solve the retrogression NOW or NEVER. ACT NOW or let retrogression continue for ever.

suzanne4, RN · Jun 4, 2007

There are already multiple threads on the retrogression, and we are all aware that this is being discussed right now. And there are many of us that do not like the bill that the nurses are getting added on to.

And there is no reason for us to contact our Senators and members of the House of Representatives. There is no way that a bill that will permit unlimited or uncapped visas for nurses is going to pass and become law. The unions in the US are much too strong for that, and I do not even wish to see that, or we can kiss nursing good-bye as we know it. There are many people that have gone into nursing lately just to get a green card, and they could care less about taking care of a patient. To make it unlimited would just open the floodgates to who ever thought that they could scam thru a program.

Would you want someone like that caring for you or your loved ones? Definitely not me, or any of my friends. And many of them are foreign nurses that have been in the US for years.

The nursing part is still part of the CIR and there are many that do not like most of it to begin with. Placing nurses with that only hurts the nurses, it does not help them.

suzanne4, RN · Jun 4, 2007

I help foreign nurses here all of the time, but there is no way that I would want unlimited visas for nurses. Period. Never has happened and never will, at least if I can voice my concerns about it.

You will not find one nursing association in the US that is behind the unlimited visas either.

Barking up the wrong tree here. This forum is visited primarily by foreign nurses and they have no vote in the US as to what is done about anything until they are here and are paying taxes. Most do not meet that requirement.

The CIR also has provisions for 12 million to get amnesty and have their immigration fees paid by our taxes, and they will owe no back taxes either.

Not a good thing in the eyes of most Americans. Be very careful of what you ask for without looking at the other side of the picture. You are looking at it from only one side.

mcse · Jun 4, 2007

edited ..

It's nice to read dialogue between ( John2255+Gordon73) and ( Suzanne4+caroladybelle+dlsk ) here. Very educational for the rest of us. Pls continue this thread ..:smiley_ab

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Jun 4, 2007

To all nurses especially US nurses,
Please call your senators for an amemndment favoring unlimited Schedule A visas. This is extremely important because CIR debate in Senate will continue only for few more days. Out of 108 amendments on the senate floor there is not even a single one favoring Shedule A applicants. Schedule A immigration does not affect US labour market in any way since these are shortage occupations. Meet, call, fax. webfax the senators/senators office immediately. Let your friends and relatives also follow the same. Please visit the following websites for further information. Talking points and how to contact the senators are all included in the links. Its the time to DO or DIE. Otherwise the retrogression will last for ever.Please keep this post on the top always.

Sorry John but you are using a fiction to try and get us to support a bill potentially harmful to both US nurses and foreign nurses wishing to immigrate.

There are hundreds of thousands of American nurses not working as nurses in the USA. Many of them are not working because of poor working conditions, inadequate pay by US facilities, and dangerous ratios. Because of retrogression, facilities have to improve these issues to get staff. And they have to maintain nursing satisfaction to keep nurses.

If they have a "contracted" staff member, they know that they can treat them however they wish for 2-3 years and not worry about keeping them w/ satisfactory pay/conditions.

In addition, a hospital can place ads in the local area for staff. When those staff apply, offer them inadequate compensation. Cut or stagnate the pay of current employees. When enough leave, or decline hire - they go to the government and claim that the "Nursing shortage" is so great, that they "need" more foreign nurses. And thus get 2-3 year contract staff and pay them those low wages.

Thus, the extensive use of emigrating nurses DOES AFFECT and impair the conditions of current US nurses.

It has been noted REPEATEDLY that there are more than enough nurses licensed in the US to solve the "shortage". And even if there were not, there are thousands of qualified US nursing students that cannot into classes due to the shortage of educational resources. Many Americans would like to see the focus on facilitating more citizens working as nurses rather than importing them.

Also given the behavior of many recent legal and illegal immigrants, and actions of VISA holders, many citizens would rather tighten regs and pass increased regulations.

While I personally value my friendships with many immigrant nurses, and I respect what they have accomplished, I also have to note the problems that do occur with them here. Despite their education and passing of ESL tests, they do encounter language barrier and educational barrier problems in many facilities, requiring greater orientation time and occasional pt/MD complaints. And though most immigrants are honest and law abiding and fulfill their contracts, some do not and that ruins things for all the rest.

The recent marches by immigrants making demands has also soured citizens against immigration.

I respect what you are trying to do, but you may find support for your cause limited.

mcse · Jun 4, 2007

from caroladybelle

"it has been noted repeatedly that there are more than enough nurses licensed in the us to solve the "shortage"

hi suzanne4,

is that true ?

**removed the comments for caroladybelle as rn/writer explained **

John2255 · Jun 4, 2007

Dear Suzanne,

Thank you for your response. I always have high regard for your comments. I wish to clarify my intention to call for unlimited number of visas for all Schedule A applicants that include nurses and physical therapists. To the point, I was talking about Schedule A occupationts which faces severe shortage in US labour market. US healthcare employers are unable to find required proffessionals to fill up the vaccancies. And as a result US health care system is strangulated to give quality services to the US population. Remember, US healthcare is considered as the best available in the planet. Do you want your loved ones suffer from inadequate medical care due to this shortage. Do you really want somebody to lose his life or suffer for the life time because of broken healthcare system due to shortages. Do you really want your fellow nurses and other health care proffesionals like physical therapists to be over burdened and exhausted with duties and extra working hours.

Department of Labour during their several testimonies before Senate and House Immigration subcommities have clearly indicated that Schedule A immigration does not affect US labour market in any way since these are shortage occupations where there is not enough US workers. Schedule A immigrants will never affect the jobs or wages of present US nurses. Another important point to emphasis is that when there is enough qualified nurses availbale in US, nursing occupation will be no more classified as Schedule A occupations and foregin nurses will not have any immigration benefits they enjoyed till retrogression. Thus US nursing labour market is always protected from the burden of overseas nurses. But the fact is that US hospitals Association predicts nursing and physical therapists shortage to become worse in the comming years.

STRIVE ACT OF 2007 which is Hourse version of present CIR and last year Senate passed CIR(2006 CIR) have provisons for excluding Schedule A occupations from numerical limit till 2017 or till occupations are deemed to be Schedule A occupations by Department of Labour. Even SKILL bill which was introduced to Senate last April had same provisions. But unfortunately the present Senate CIR which is an amended version of last years CIR stripped off the provisions for Schedule A catagory along with all other employement EB catagory replacing it with point based merit system. The full text of the present CIR is availabe in www. thomas. gov as well as in http://www.aila.org. As I mentioned in my other post the worst news for the overseas nurses is that there is an amenment presented to the Present CIR by Senator Cantwell which reverses the point based system to current employement EB catogaries with skilled worker catagory not included in it. This is going to affect the over seas nurses heavily because nurses immigration 140 petition falls in EB3 Skilled worker catagory. . I am aware that present CIR is open for further amemdments and challenge of passing in Senate, I simply wish to remind the retrogression suffers that there is no special status for Schedule A applicant and no provisions to relieve retrogression in the current Senate CIR bill.

I believe I have posted the thread in the right forum because my thread is directed to retrogression suffers and overseas nurses who wish to come to US. This group can ask their friends, family memebers, relatives and employers to contact the respective senators of their area without any delay to address the severe shortage of Schedule A occupations by bringing great amendments on senate floor. The senate rejoins on Monday to continue the debate on immigration and this is the perfect time to address the concerns.

And about immigration fees, 90 percent of USCIS funding comes from fees collected from the prospective immigrants and non immigrants. Government funding of USCIS is only 10 percent. So it is incorrect to say that immigration fees is a burden on US tax payers. I have no comments on the illegal immigration part of current CIR. Lets pray and hope that Schedule A issue will be addressed in the current senate CIR. Once again I humbly request every possible efforts by everybody in this forum to bring Schedule A issues into the notice of Senators.

suzanne4, RN · Jun 4, 2007

from caroladybelle
"it has been noted repeatedly that there are more than enough nurses licensed in the us to solve the "shortage"
hi suzanne4,
is that true ?
don't understand caroladybelle's post. i also don't understand why she's reading foreign nurse forum and posting comments here. strange !

she is actually quite correct. and there is no reason that she cannot post in the international forum. i am not a foreign nurse either, but have worked with them for many, many years. same as she has.

there are shortages in some areas because the conditions to work there are quite bad, so therefore americans do not wish to work there, and the foreign nurses that come, walk out from there. not all areas have shortages by any means.

example: you will not find a hospital in ny to petition you if you did not attend nursing school in ny, and even that does not guarantee placement there. the bay area in ca does very little in the way on petitioning. places where people want to work usually do not do petitioning, they have enough nurses that wish to work there.

sure, there are nursing homes all over that will petition a foreign nurse, but many do not wish to work there. you have 30 to 60 patients per nurse, and usually the nurse did not even get the proper training in school before they came to the us, and then with just a few days of orientation, you are on your own. does not make for a good thing for anyone.

suzanne4, RN · Jun 4, 2007

Dear Suzanne,
Thank you for your response. I always have high regard for your comments. I wish to clarify my intention to call for unlimited number of visas for all Schedule A applicants that include nurses and physical therapists. To the point, I was talking about Schedule A occupationts which faces severe shortage in US labour market. US healthcare employers are unable to find required proffessionals to fill up the vaccancies. And as a result US health care system is strangulated to give quality services to the US population. Remember, US healthcare is considered as the best available in the planet. Do you want your loved ones suffer from inadequate medical care due to this shortage. Do you really want somebody to lose his life or suffer for the life time because of broken healthcare system due to shortages. Do you really want your fellow nurses and other health care proffesionals like physical therapists to be over burdened and exhausted with duties and extra working hours.
Department of Labour during their several testimonies before Senate and House Immigration subcommities have clearly indicated that Schedule A immigration does not affect US labour market in any way since these are shortage occupations where there is not enough US workers. Schedule A immigrants will never affect the jobs or wages of present US nurses. Another important point to emphasis is that when there is enough qualified nurses availbale in US, nursing occupation will be no more classified as Schedule A occupations and foregin nurses will not have any immigration benefits they enjoyed till retrogression. Thus US nursing labour market is always protected from the burden of overseas nurses. But the fact is that US hospitals Association predicts nursing and physical therapists shortage to become worse in the comming years.
STRIVE ACT OF 2007 which is Hourse version of present CIR and last year Senate passed CIR(2006 CIR) have provisons for excluding Schedule A occupations from numerical limit till 2017 or till occupations are deemed to be Schedule A occupations by Department of Labour. Even SKILL bill which was introduced to Senate last April had same provisions. But unfortunately the present Senate CIR which is an amended version of last years CIR stripped off the provisions for Schedule A catagory along with all other employement EB catagory replacing it with point based merit system. The full text of the present CIR is availabe in www. thomas. gov as well as in www.aila.org. As I mentioned in my other post the worst news for the overseas nurses is that there is an amenment presented to the Present CIR by Senator Cantwell which reverses the point based system to current employement EB catogaries with skilled worker catagory not included in it. This is going to affect the over seas nurses heavily because nurses immigration 140 petition falls in EB3 Skilled worker catagory. . I am aware that present CIR is open for further amemdments and challenge of passing in Senate, I simply wish to remind the retrogression suffers that there is no special status for Schedule A applicant and no provisions to relieve retrogression in the current Senate CIR bill.
I believe I have posted the thread in the right forum because my thread is directed to retrogression suffers and overseas nurses who wish to come to US. This group can ask their friends, family memebers, relatives and employers to contact the respective senators of their area without any delay to address the severe shortage of Schedule A occupations by bringing great amendments on senate floor. The senate rejoins on Monday to continue the debate on immigration and this is the perfect time to address the concerns.
And about immigration fees, 90 percent of USCIS funding comes from fees collected from the prospective immigrants and non immigrants. Government funding of USCIS is only 10 percent. So it is incorrect to say that immigration fees is a burden on US tax payers. I have no comments on the illegal immigration part of current CIR. Lets pray and hope that Schedule A issue will be addressed in the current senate CIR. Once again I humbly request every possible efforts by everybody in this forum to bring Schedule A issues into the notice of Senators.

You are barking up the wrong tree to me. Sorry, but with the CIR that is in front of Congress and the House of Representatives, the 12 million people that they wish to give amnesty to, no matter what they call it; the taxpapers will be paying that expense. See, that is exactly what I am talking about, you are not aware of all of the things going on with that bill. And many of us are not happy with it. So, I am not incorrect in what I am talking about, you mentioned the CIR, and I told you why there are many, many of us that do not like it. Have not liked it from the very beginning, and do not think that anything will change my mind on it. We do not need unlimited cap of nurses here. And with what is going on in some countries with the training in nursing, it will make things bad here.

And most nurses in other countries knew what they were doing when they started nursing school, it never should have been done for an immediate ticket to the US.

You are not going to get us to change our minds on this, far from it. And actually only finding more to agree with me. You are not in the US and paying taxes here.

And again, you are quite wrong in your statement: The US is not severely short of nurses. They are short in some environments because of the work conditions, namely nursing homes, etc. But not that severe as you seem to think that it is. I am not agreeing with one thing that you are saying, it does not make a valid argument here.

rn/writer, RN · Jun 4, 2007

from caroladybelle
"it has been noted repeatedly that there are more than enough nurses licensed in the us to solve the "shortage"
hi suzanne4,
is that true ?
don't understand caroladybelle's post. i also don't understand why she's reading foreign nurse forum and posting comments here. strange !

i'll leave the questions about the us nursing shortage to suzanne.

as for the second part of your post, the international forum, like all of the others on the allnurses.com board is open to anyone who cares to take a look. forums are not limited to members who fit the category. you might see a post from a school nurse in the surgical forum or from a cardiac nurse in the ob/gyn forum. students post all over the place, hoping to find information about different specialties.

as international issues do have an effect on the nurses born or naturalized here, quite a few members read this forum. and some of them post. this might seem strange, but as long as the messages conform to the terms of service, there isn't anything wrong about it.

hope that helps.

letina · Jun 4, 2007

Don't understand caroladybelle's post. I also don't understand why she's reading foreign nurse forum and posting comments here. Strange !

I'm sure you didn't mean any disrespect, but please remember the American nurses are your future co-workers and without their support, life could be very difficult when you get to the US and working as an RN. I think it's a good thing, not strange, that US nurses read these foreign nurse forums and take an interest in what we foreign nurses are facing in our immigration problems.

mcse · Jun 4, 2007

i'm sure you didn't mean any disrespect, but please remember the american nurses are your future co-workers and without their support, life could be very difficult when you get to the us and working as an rn. i think it's a good thing, not strange, that us nurses read these foreign nurse forums and take an interest in what we foreign nurses are facing in our immigration problems.

ok. thanks for explaining suzanne4 and rn/writer. i didn't mean that way.

good to know that american nurses are here for help. :behindpc:

no more strange.