Socialized Medicine the myths and the facts

[madwife2002]

The first and the most obvious concern is the cost to the patient and their family, we all know how devastating an illness can be for patients and their family many times I have witnessed the despair when a diagnoses meant further treatment which insurances question and in some cases wont cover. I have seen patients needing costly drugs to keep them alive and being unable to afford them, causing repeated admissions to repair the damage so called none compliance has caused. The first question in none compliance is were the pts actually refusing to take their medication or was it simply they could not afford to buy their medication because they don't have enough money and other bills need to be paid first? If the real reason is the cost then surely it would be more simple of we provided these medications at a more effective price or that all medications cost $5 no matter what they had? Outrageous I hear you shout but the cost of the repeated admission is far more costly than by helping prevent a repeat admission, by providing medicine they can afford.

How about blood tests could these not be done in the doctors office before the pt leaves for home and forgets to go and have a blood draw, or simply cannot get to the lab to have them drawn. I have personally waited in doctors office hours (and paid for the privilege) then been sent to the lab, miles away to sit and wait for blood work to be done. Why could the doctors not employ somebody to be at the office to draw blood on patients?

We should be looking at improving preventative medicine rather than patch it up and see.

Many times I have seen patients discharged with a new diagnoses of diabetes, no follow up at home can be organised because in my city nothing exists to assist these people. There should be a diabetic home nurse who monitors these patients in their own home-rationale, this would again help prevent admissions for diabetic complications, and none compliance.

So you wonder what has this got to do with socialized medicine. Well, in the UK if you have...

• Children
• Over 60 for women and over 65 for men
• Diabetes
• Asthma
• Thyroid problems, etc...

...then you get all your medicines for free.

There are in place specialized RN's who focus is on preventative care in the community. There are telephone help lines which anybody can utilize for free.

Maternity care is free a midwife will be assigned to you for the duration of your pregnancy and up to 6 weeks later. The cost of the birth-nothing no matter how you deliver.

I have been asked what kind of care do you receive in a socialized medicine country and I ask them, I am a product of socialized medicine you tell me how my care differs from nurses who have paid outrageous amounts of money to train as a nurse?

Of course even in the UK you can have private care if you chose to pay, this is an advantage if you need hip replacements, knee replacements, eye surgeries-other wise you may have to wait. There are initiatives in place to reduce waiting times for surgeries in the NHS and I hear that dr's can now book surgeries from their office at hospitals all over the UK which helps reduce waiting times, plus hospitals get fined if they don't meet their quota.

I agree MRI's and CT's are not as freely available, but again initiatives are in place to improve the waiting times. Emergency care no different all patients will receive emergency care.

Poor conditions yes there are poor hospitals and there are excellent hospitals, no different to Phoenix AZ.

Questions??

[MaritesaRN]

We're living in the real world. We value and esteem the US Constitution, inc. the Bill of Rights just as much as you do (and, yes, I've read it and am v. familiar with the content, probably more so than many of the anti-reform zealots) -- and thanks for repeatedly implying that we're all stupid and blind because we don't share your particular opinions.

The point of scientifically designed and conducted polls is that they reflect a truer picture of public opinion than someone's individual little area. Nearly all the nurses I know, and plenty of the physicians, support a single-payer system or at least the proposed "public option" plan. The fact that you don't know us personally doesn't mean that your personal little circle accurately reflects the larger public view.

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." (emphasis mine)

Welfare

welfare n. 1. health, happiness, or prosperity; well-being. [http://www.usconstitution.net/glossary.html#WELFARE)

One of the main purposes of "ordain(ing) and establish(ing) this Constitution" was to promote the health and well-being of the citizenry -- which is exactly what a universal healthcare system would do. We all pay taxes to provide "free" police and firefighting services for everyone, we all pay taxes to provide "free" primary and secondary schools for everyone; I don't understand why we don't see healthcare services the same way -- we all pay taxes to make sure everyone has the services available. Every other industrialized nation on the planet has some kind of universal coverage program, and they spend less and have better healthcare outcomes than we do -- why is anyone still supporting our current system?????

:yeah:Bravo !! Well said, and thank you for putting it in the proper perspective. Maybe Saude needs to join the classes of the to be citizens where they study and understand more about our constitution before becoming a citizen. I have no idea as to why some people are still supporting the current system ...............it is scary to know though that some people refuse to "see" how bad the current system . Maybe if you have a dying grandma that could not access the private insurance fast enough to give her the needed treatment or a single mom w/ a child who is in welfare and having difficult time getting the needed services, just because they do not have enough money to access the best of the doctors and treatment?

Yes, there is a good reason for our doubts of the capacity of an efficient health delivery by some of the public dept. Some are slow and inefficient, in other offices they are understaffed (childrens welfare) but this can be overhauled to have an efficient public health system. If we do not welcome and allow the change now, the broken current system will bankrupt our nation , and just like anything else, from this will come a domino effect in all areas of our economy and the people's lives. How can you concentrate for a quality of life when you do not even have a good, affordable , basic health care ?

Let us be a big part of this health reform change----- way overdue !!!!

[Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN]

I guess you need to inform Congress that they are wasting time putting in a Constitutional Amendment.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.J.RES.4.IH:

Health Protection Amendment of 2009 (Introduced in House)

HJ 4 IH

111th CONGRESS

1st Session

H. J. RES. 4

Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States regarding health care.

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

January 6, 2009

Ms. MCCOLLUM introduced the following joint resolution;

[GiGiOm]

I actually never said this was a scientifically conducted survey. My point, if anybody actually got the gist of what I wrote, was the majority of people writing congress about this very urgent issue are AGAINST health care reform. Politicians are not scientists. They respond to public pressure. I am very aware of the fact that in more scientifically conducted surveys, the majority of respondents are for health care. I WAS NEVER ARGUING THAT POINT! I was pointing out that the people who want real reform (and I count myself among those in favor of reform) are not putting pressure on the very people who are going to be voting on a bill for health reform. We can sit here and argue all day long about reform; or we can start doing what the opposition is obviously already doing: making our voices heard. By the way, I use this website all the time and usually get a response from my representatives. I also belong to a political action group. I am well-read. I make it a point of staying up on current events and resent the implication that I do not know what I am talking about. I am going to repeat what I said in my previous post: If you are in favor of reform, please write your representatives and tell them so. We have to share in the responsibility of running our own country. Do you understand my point now?

[GiGiOm]

With all due respect, Madwife, I never said this was a scientific survey. This is a site that provides a means for people to contact their legislators about issues. It is an effective means of communicating with them. My point was that the people who are opposed to reform (and I am also very aware that they are the minority....I fact check, too) are being more vocal about it than those of us who are for reform. My point was to urge those of us who want reform to speak up to the people who are going to be voting on the issue. Politicians respond to Public Pressure. They are, after all, politicians. The site is called Congress.org. You can sign up for emails on legislation that the House and Senate will be voting on and contact your representatives with your stance on these issues. It is a vehicle for making your voice heard. That was the point of my post. We can argue among ourselves and let health care reform die a quiet death as the vocal minority gains momentum with their scare tactics. Or we can get on the horn ourselves and let congress know that the time for reform is now. This is a very complex and polarizing issue. Nurses need to be making themselves heard. That was the entire point of my post. Thank you.

[MaritesaRN]

take care and Saude!

The #1 to 7 really sounds good and should make the insurance companies really work for their money ....... no doubt thye are the ones that entered in this business purely for profit. they need to be regulated and the insurance commisioner is obviously not doing a good job controling this --- i think he is more of compain than regulating .:typing

Another thing , I am sure we can disagree without belittling or condescending to others. Avoid using words such as "uneducated" ? Having a different opinion does not make the other person uneducated ! So cool it whoever is doing this? Thank you.

[madwife2002, BSN, RN]

With all due respect, Madwife, I never said this was a scientific survey. This is a site that provides a means for people to contact their legislators about issues. It is an effective means of communicating with them. My point was that the people who are opposed to reform (and I am also very aware that they are the minority....I fact check, too) are being more vocal about it than those of us who are for reform. My point was to urge those of us who want reform to speak up to the people who are going to be voting on the issue. Politicians respond to Public Pressure. They are, after all, politicians. The site is called Congress.org. You can sign up for emails on legislation that the House and Senate will be voting on and contact your representatives with your stance on these issues. It is a vehicle for making your voice heard. That was the point of my post. We can argue among ourselves and let health care reform die a quiet death as the vocal minority gains momentum with their scare tactics. Or we can get on the horn ourselves and let congress know that the time for reform is now. This is a very complex and polarizing issue. Nurses need to be making themselves heard. That was the entire point of my post. Thank you.

No offense taken I was just curious. Even if it was a scientific survey I am often wary of those too because so many times they are so subjective to the person or persons conductuting them, and are very often bias-I honestly believe it is almost impossible to eliminate bias from any form of study these days. I know I am cynical LOL

[Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN]

The majority of health insurance companies are non profit....so when people say the need to change the health care system why are you trying to punish non profit health insurance companies which are the majority of the health carriers.

[MaritesaRN]

The majority of health insurance companies are non profit....so when people say the need to change the health care system why are you trying to punish non profit health insurance companies which are the majority of the health carriers.

Non profit health insurance? such as ???? The private insurance is a business , and that is the only reason that they get in the game.......why do you think they have been sued left and right ? If your comment is becaseu you are employed by a private insurance companies, then denial or ignorance in your part is really not beneficial for all. Private insurance companies will still exist , they just could not "fix" the premiums because then there are real competetion w/ the public health insurance. :typing

[MaritesaRN]

No offense taken I was just curious. Even if it was a scientific survey I am often wary of those too because so many times they are so subjective to the person or persons conductuting them, and are very often bias-I honestly believe it is almost impossible to eliminate bias from any form of study these days. I know I am cynical LOL

:)

I know what she is talking about . I have been supporting by sending messages to my senators and the white hous (white house.gov) . this is an example of a response from my senator. I am qouting her and sharing this because whe was quite articulate to what I have been trying to say in this thread , about the Health reform. when I read some of the responses , it saddens me that some highly educated nurses still do not see the total picture.

"

Thank you for writing to me about pending health care reform legislation. I am committed to working with President Obama to ensure that Americans have access to high-quality, affordable healthcare that they can rely on. With the right legislation, I believe we can greatly improve care for our families, while containing the growing costs of health care.

The status quo is unsustainable- Americans will spend more than $2.5 trillion on health care this year, more than one in every six dollars in the U.S. economy. In all, we spend twice as much per person on health care than other advanced nations, yet the United States ranks near the bottom of the 30 leading industrialized nations in basic measures of health such as infant mortality and life expectancy.

The situation is even worse for individual families, who are struggling to afford skyrocketing premiums and increased co-pays and deductibles. Health care premiums have more than doubled in the last nine years, and one respected study shows that, if we fail to act, the average California family will have to spend 41 percent of its income for health insurance premiums by 2016.

The growing number of uninsured is also contributing to higher costs- 46 million Americans do not have health insurance, and every day, another 14,000 Americans lose their coverage when they become seriously ill or lose or change their jobs. To make up for the coverage gap, families pay on average an extra $1,100 a year in premium costs.

Moreover, poor regulation of insurance companies means that even those with health insurance coverage are not always guaranteed to get the benefits they are promised. Every day I hear from Californians who can't get health insurance because of a pre-existing condition, or who are denied the medical treatment prescribed by a doctor because of insurance company bureaucrats. This is wrong, and we have to do better for our families.

That is why I have joined President Obama and many of my colleagues in support of some basic principles for action. Any health care reform must allow every American who likes their current health coverage to keep it. Health coverage must be made accessible and affordable, and insurance companies must no longer be allowed to discriminate against those with pre-existing conditions or drop you if you become seriously ill. We must increase investments in prevention and wellness as that will save billions of dollars. And health care reform must not add a single dollar to the Federal deficit.

As we move to enact health care reform, I will fight for a bill that meets these principals. As a U.S. Senator, I can choose from a wide array of health care plans, and I believe that all Americans deserve this opportunity.

Again, thank you for writing to me. Please feel free to contact me again about this or other issues of concern to you.

Barbara Boxer

United States Senator

:redpinkhe

[elkpark]

The majority of health insurance companies are non profit....so when people say the need to change the health care system why are you trying to punish non profit health insurance companies which are the majority of the health carriers.

I would need to see some documentation to support your statement because, to the best of my knowledge, nearly all the health insurance companies are private-for-profit businesses, same as homeowner's insurance, car insurance, or any other kind of insurance business. Sure, health insurance originally started out in this country as non-profit cooperatives, many decades ago, but nearly all of those have fallen by the wayside or have been bought out by the private-for-profit companies. Do you really think that Aetna is non-profit? United Healthcare? Cigna? Even most of the Blue Cross Blue Shield state agencies, which were originally non-profit cooperatives, have been bought out by for-profit insurance companies (they particularly like to do that, because they can continue to use the BCBS name, which has great public recognition and confidence (misplaced once they've been turned for-profit, of course)).

[elkpark]

I actually never said this was a scientifically conducted survey. My point, if anybody actually got the gist of what I wrote, was the majority of people writing congress about this very urgent issue are AGAINST health care reform. Politicians are not scientists. They respond to public pressure. I am very aware of the fact that in more scientifically conducted surveys, the majority of respondents are for health care. I WAS NEVER ARGUING THAT POINT! I was pointing out that the people who want real reform (and I count myself among those in favor of reform) are not putting pressure on the very people who are going to be voting on a bill for health reform. We can sit here and argue all day long about reform; or we can start doing what the opposition is obviously already doing: making our voices heard. By the way, I use this website all the time and usually get a response from my representatives. I also belong to a political action group. I am well-read. I make it a point of staying up on current events and resent the implication that I do not know what I am talking about. I am going to repeat what I said in my previous post: If you are in favor of reform, please write your representatives and tell them so. We have to share in the responsibility of running our own country. Do you understand my point now?

I did get your point in the first place, and didn't intend to sound argumentative or like I was implying you were wrong about anything. I was just attempting to clarify the question raised by another poster about the difference between public polls and the statistic on congress.org that you mentioned about the percentages supporting or opposing the various healthcare reform proposals. I also wanted to make the point that lots of us are contacting our representatives without going through the congress.org site, so I would question how accurate a tally it represents of how many of us who are contacting our representatives are "for" or "against." It only counts the number of people using congress.org to contact their elected officials, not the total messages elected officials are receiving. Sorry if I came across differently! :)

[Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN]

Non profit health insurance? such as ???? The private insurance is a business , and that is the only reason that they get in the game.......why do you think they have been sued left and right ? If your comment is becaseu you are employed by a private insurance companies, then denial or ignorance in your part is really not beneficial for all. Private insurance companies will still exist , they just could not "fix" the premiums because then there are real competetion w/ the public health insurance. :typing

Blue Cross Blue Shield is number one Insurance company in the USA- NON Profit, in my State Tufts Health Plan - Non Profit, Harvard Pilgrim Non Profit, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Cross_and_Blue_Shield_Association

They cover 1/3 of Americans, another group Medicare and Mecaid

United Health and Aetna are for profit and check Yahoo finance ----- they are there .

Majority of Americans are covered by non profit.

What ever raise you enjoy working as nurse is caused by the For Profits paying high rates. They are the one you can thank for you raises.