Sick and tired of the AAS BSN debate

Nursing Students ADN/BSN

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SO

I am a new RN, graduated from one of the toughest nursing programs in the country.

I was lucky enough to land a job in this economy, even better in the department that I love the most!

Life is great, seriously..What could go wrong?!

Its another day in nursing orientation, a handful of us new nurses listening to lectures, performing skills, participating in work shops. FUN!

One day, for the head to toe assessment, a nursing instructor from a private school sits in with her clinical group to listen to the head to toe lecture.

She starts off by saying..

Congratulations you all have jobs!!!

Its because you all have your bachelors... be sure to tell that to all your friends who have their associates.

I was the only one in the group with an associates in nursing.

So I said, I have an associates, and last I checked I have a job.

I SOOOOOOOOO wanted to go on.

I wanted to ask her, with a genuinely dumb look on my face..

The nurses with their bachelors, do they take a different board exam from those associate nurses?

Wait for a response, then come back with EXACTLYYYYY!

I felt about 2 inches tall, but whatever. The school I went to had 1500 applicants, and I was the lucky person to be included in the 150 to get accepted ...of those 150, i was the lucky 70 to graduate on time (we had 90 something at pinning but we had about a dozen of LPNs and the rest were students who had to repeat a course)

Needless to say, I felt small. Was unable to concentrate, but I reminded myself of the little things..and began to feel better.

No student loans to pay back!! So my first paycheck, Im going to blow it and go shopping!!!

I am only making a whopping...drum roll please...50 cents less per hour than those with a higher degree.

I saved a ton of money by taking the NCLEX once and passing it on the first try, with 75 questions baby!

I am going back for my bachelors, my masters even (i would love to have that clinical instructor work for me one day) this time the place I work for is going to reimburse me for my tuition.

This post is not an invitation to flame and debate some more on why one is "better" than the other

This was an opportunity to share my experience, hopefully lift the spirits of someone who had a similar story.

se la vie

It totally depends on the hospital. Where I work, and I've said this over and over, the stated policy is BSN required, but our nurse manager likes the ADN's from a particular community college a lot, and 80% of the new grad hires are ADN's. Sure, many go on to get their BSN or MSN . . . but they were hired with the ADN. So, the "higher" degree does not always get you the job.

Very true that it depends on the hospital, hence why I said "most likely". :)

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Specializes in Operating Room Nursing.

This whole BSN, ADN thing you have going on over there is so confusing, what's the point?

We now have a graduate entry master in nursing science degree in Australia. I hope we're not going to end up with a two tiered RN system happening over here :rolleyes:

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Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
A couple of things

First no offense, but I think you totally over reacted just my 2 cents. You are right whether Associates or BSN a nurse is a nurse. And you should be proud that you passed boards and have a job. The instructor probably said that comment very loosely and shouldn't have said it.

She probably said it very deliberately because she is advocating for the "single entry point" (BSN) ANA AACN agenda and patting her group on the back for taking the extra time and spending the money to get there, ie "preaching to the choir". She probably felt a little bad for the completely unintended faux pas.

I agree there should not be competition between the two, its ridiculous. You just have to not care sometimes what people think or say. Speaking up for yourself was all you needed to do. The fact that your are so upset over this makes it seem like you were already insecure about the fact that you didn't have a BSN and then when this instructor said her insensitive comment it made it that much worse.

My impression is that she did stand up for herself, she is proud, she was understandably disappointed by the experience and I'm glad there is an allnurses to come to vent about that. I'll pass on the psychoanalysis.

The instructor although wrong to assume every nurse had her BSN had a valid point behind her comment.

Her comment was that the reason they "all" had jobs was because they had their BSNs. The OP was hired there without a BSN so her point was not valid in that particular instance. Your comments about the general desirability of a BSN or "more education" in general are right on, but what I think, and the OP stated she didn't want to get into that debate but share her feelings about what happened to her today. I'm happy to give her a "that was a rough experience" virtual ear, and let it go at that.

Lastly being a nurse as I am sure you will learn requires tact and grace to ignore all the crap that happens to you or is said to you. You have to put your feelings aside and grow some thicker skin. If you let this one thing totally rock your world then your in for some hard lessons.

No no no and no. There really are categories of "crap". I really wish we could ALL rebel against the situation where a recent allnurses poll had 87% saying they had been spit on, pushed, scratched or verbally abused. I wish we could ALL rebel against demoralizing customer service policies that require us to perform personal body care on able bodied individuals because we're afraid of a bad survey or a complaint. I won't assign blame to the ANA separate category agenda but somebody has been asleep at the wheel in the last 20 years fighting about stuff that divides us and doesn't unite us.

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It's unfortunate that the instructor was insensitive. An RN is an RN regareless of the route taken to get it. However, when it comes to hiring an RN, the only opinion that matters regarding ADN vs BSN belongs to the hiring manager...period.

The fact of the matter is that it's a buyer's market, so to speak, when it comes to hiring nurses in this economy, and many more hiring managers are preferring BSNs. There are also those that will hire ADNs but require that they be actively working on their BSNs and must complete them within a certain timeframe if hired. That's just the way it is, and getting upset about it won't change that fact.

It's also wrong to assume that if you get a BSN that you must automatically have debt. I didn't pay a penny for tuition, between grants and scholarships. So it can be done.

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Specializes in Pediatric Intensive Care, ER.

Some arguments never end...

Lets speak from a practical level. As a general rule, ASN/ADN programs tend to focus heavily on skills and practical means, while BSN programs tend to enjoy more time to focus on theory and leadership. That being said, from a functional standpoint, new grads from both areas tend to be equal. A co-worker of mine made the statement - "I have a BSN, which meant I might not be able to do *%^$ like you, but I can sure write a paper about it!"

So from a new hire, functional standpoint, there's not much difference. But then down the road, when a company is looking for motivated people for leadership positions, doesn't it make sense to look at the time spent educating one's self as an indication of how motivated they may be? Not exclusively - they may have other qualifications that trump the BSN - but certainly it makes sense to consider it.

It makes sense, then, that some places feel it necessary to hire BSN's because they feel they may get more long-term bang for their buck from a more motivated employee. The BSN is the only thing they can judge at the start, because they haven't seen the person in action. Truth be told, the best employee there might be an ASN/ADN in the future, but who can predict?

Before you fire off all those bitter replies LOL... I AM an ASN (who happends to have a bachelors in another discipline), but have also furthered my qualifications along the way (CCRN, etc...) I have been on both sides of the world - grunt and management - and can tell you the best qualification for a good nurse has nothing to do with the papers they hang on the wall!!!! Watch how hard they work - and where their heart is - and you can see who will be the "most qualified" to take care of my family OR run the place that takes care of them...

And FYI - some of us chose the ASN route simply for financial reasons. Change in careers late in life, soul income provider, etc... I had to feed my family and did NOT have the time to scrape by for 2 more years, when I could earn the income in less time that way. Starting pays are generally the same - and the places that DO pay more for BSN's do NOT pay enough to make it worth it...

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I'm genuinely curious... what makes NCC "one of the toughest nursing programs in the country"?

NCC = ?

Nassau Community College?

Northampton Community College?

Norwalk Community College?

Nashua Community College?

National Cotton Council?

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Wow. OP is only expressing her feeling how ADNs are sometimes put down because they do not have BSN as evidenced by the instructor's comments. We can all be very proud of ADNs or BSNs that can pass their NCLEX first time and with 75 Qs to boot. I honestly do not feel this was an ADN vs. BSN, only OP restating the her feelings that ADN are just as prepared for the most important initials RN.

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good luck getting a job at a academic medical center

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Kind of stupid to require a BSN or MSN just to clean people and hand out a few meds. Makes no sense to me. We all end up doing the same job eventually.

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Specializes in acute care med/surg, LTC, orthopedics.
This whole BSN, ADN thing you have going on over there is so confusing, what's the point?

We now have a graduate entry master in nursing science degree in Australia. I hope we're not going to end up with a two tiered RN system happening over here :rolleyes:

I hear you. We don't have that nonsense in Canada either.

An RN is an RN is an RN is an RN.

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Holy cow @ all the replies!

It seems as though some of us trailed off to that dark neck of the woods I said I didnt want to go anywhere near! ..It wasn't a debate!

I absolutely LOVE the comradery I've seen from NURSES!! Some posts made me laugh, some made me scratch my head, and others had some really valid points.

I really just needed an ear, or an eye..LOL. You guys are in the field, I can talk my fiance's ear off but he wouldn't 'get it'

I am not insecure, I think the instructor knew she put her foot in her mouth or she wouldnt of offered an apology. LOL It's like when you call someone a frog ...then they hear you say it ..so they say something along the lines "I have frog friends, so Im not against frogs"

Love you all for listening. Thanks a bunch.

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Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
good luck getting a job at a academic medical center

Not sure why you bothered to post such a snippy and unhelpful remark. You might want to read the OP's first post.

Best wishes Natingale!

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