"He just wanted to know..."

Nurses Professionalism

Published

So here is the situation.

I work as a private practice NP Internal Medicine provider in the same medical center where I started as RN years ago.

A some time ago, I stopped sharing ANY private information about myself and my family, period. Partially it was due to xenophobia I experienced in the same place, partially due to current political situation and partially because I am, well, sick and tired of sharing information that has nothing to do with business. I am nice, polite and adamant about it, whether one feels like "just curious" or not. But, since I was there before, some pieces leaked out and stayed in collective memory.

Over the last year, I encountered more than once that patients/families somehow got to know where I came from and some other details I did not share with them. It is Trump country overall, so more than once it led to situations when I was asked humiliating (to say it mildly) questions directly in my face, refusal of care under premise that I must be "a spy or something", etc. Needless to say, it doesn't make my life any better.

The single source of leak in all cases with no exclusion were staff RNs. I spoke with them; some outright denied telling patients anything, but when presented with facts, everyone started the same spiel: "the patient/family just wanted to know where are you from, what are you doing here in America and if you have any kids - they are customers, you know, and why they cannot know if they are just curious?" No one of them had an impression that what they did was wrong.

In my opinion, doing so is, at least, unprofessional.

Speaking with NURSING management led to nowhere. They have no policies about it, and "what if he just wanted to know, and the nurse happens to know, and not comfortable to say "no"?"

I would appreciate some collective wisdom.

Specializes in Psychiatric and Mental Health NP (PMHNP).

I am sorry you are upset. However, I do think you are being a bit paranoid. I am an NP working in a very rural area in "Trump Country." People here are curious and just want to know more about me, so they can feel comfortable with me. They do ask me where I am from, since I am obviously not from here. It would be pretty hard to not have anyone know anything about me here, since it is a very small town and I run into my patients all the time at the grocery store, etc. So I am pretty open about stuff and have had no problems. I'm also mixed race and people have asked me about that, which is fine. And while this is a "Red" area, plenty of people here don't like Trump. We have a pretty diverse provider workforce and none of us has experienced prejudice. I wonder if closing yourself off so much and not wanting to share anything about yourself might be causing suspicion? That can happen in a small town. One way to overcome prejudice is by letting people get to know you and then they realize you are an okay person. You can help them learn to understand your culture, too. In a small town/rural area, healthcare providers are important members of the community and it is appreciated if they participate in the community and build relationships. If you find the environment so oppressive, please find another job where you will feel more comfortable. Best wishes.

Specializes in Emergency, Telemetry, Transplant.
People here are curious and just want to know more about me, so they can feel comfortable with me. They do ask me where I am from, since I am obviously not from here.

I could buy the "just curious" or "they want to get to know their provider" rationale if the patient said something like "you have a beautiful accent, where are you from?" Instead the OP describes being called a spy, patients refusing her care, and being told that she is taking jobs from Americans. This is more than just "getting to know" her. Besides, no patient has a right to know where their provider was born, if/when they immigrated, etc.

And, why exactly, would you describe the OP's mindset as 'paranoid.' If I were a minority or an immigrant, I would be quite concerned about the overall atmosphere in parts of this country right now. Is it Trump's fault? Well, that is a debate for a different discussion board.

Specializes in ICU, LTACH, Internal Medicine.
I am sorry you are upset. However, I do think you are being a bit paranoid. I am an NP working in a very rural area in "Trump Country." People here are curious and just want to know more about me, so they can feel comfortable with me. They do ask me where I am from, since I am obviously not from here. It would be pretty hard to not have anyone know anything about me here, since it is a very small town and I run into my patients all the time at the grocery store, etc. So I am pretty open about stuff and have had no problems. I'm also mixed race and people have asked me about that, which is fine. And while this is a "Red" area, plenty of people here don't like Trump. We have a pretty diverse provider workforce and none of us has experienced prejudice. I wonder if closing yourself off so much and not wanting to share anything about yourself might be causing suspicion? That can happen in a small town. One way to overcome prejudice is by letting people get to know you and then they realize you are an okay person. You can help them learn to understand your culture, too. In a small town/rural area, healthcare providers are important members of the community and it is appreciated if they participate in the community and build relationships. If you find the environment so oppressive, please find another job where you will feel more comfortable. Best wishes.

I work mostly in hospital, so being "from the same city" is not that important.

I am just heck tired of that question, and from the "investigation" that too frequently follows. Assuming I tell them where I came from. If that would be that, I would be fine. But it just never stops at that. They "just want to know" how did I got in the USA, when I come back home, why I never come back home, do I have children, why only X of them and not more, what they are liking, who is my husband, if he is my first husband, etc., etc., etc.

In addition to this, unfortunately, I am from the country which, deservingly or not, was and is maligned all over. I have nothing to do with all that. Yet I should bear guilt and hear hurting and obscene words just because someone cannot accept (apparently, sorely needed) medical care without first inquiring into my personal life? How would you like to be told (in the most innocent tone, while you are attempting to teach patient how to get discount on a very expensive and very important medication) "oh, just please use your phone - you guys are all spies there, I am afraid you can bug mine!"

Sounds like a joke? Well, it was not.

You can name it paranoid or whatever you like, but I'm done with this so-called "curiosity". I go on only as long as I am comfortable, and after this I name things by their proper name, which sounds in my book as "being rude and nosy" as the most politically correct.

Anyway, my question was not about the patients and their "comforts". That I at least can get. If nothing at all, I can tell them that I am from Europe and close at that. I was asking what to do with other medical workers - who, so far, were singularly RNs, who feel oblidged to "satisfy their customers" by all means possible, including spreading personal information about others.

As I said above, I placed a special "nursing communication" order. Will have to see how it works, but, apparently, "not following provider's orders" brings repercussions right away. Hoping that it helps, or I do not know how I will survive 3 more years we're got to languish here.

Specializes in ICU, LTACH, Internal Medicine.
I believe the poster is speaking about a situation that has a tendency to arise when one is unwilling to share even basic information about oneself with others, which is that people may infer that the individual has something that they want to hide and try more strenuously to learn about that person. So in that sense, one's effort to maintain strict privacy for oneself can be self-defeating, as one arouses extra attention towards oneself.

When you seek health care, you are entitled to know if the person providing you such care is qualified to do so. Which means you are entitled to know this person's first and last name, state registration status and license number.

You might want to know whatever else you want to know, but it will be up to that person to provide you with this information. Nobody is legally obliged to "let you know" anything else just because you happen to "want" it.

If you are "not comfortable" or "feel suspicious" if not knowing intimate details of personal biography of everyone doing you any service, that's your personal problem. You are always welcome to address your needs somewhere else. Just remember that the warmest, friendliest and most personable health care providers are not always the best ones.

I would say even more. They are SELDOM the best ones.

Anyway, my question was not about the patients and their "comforts". That I at least can get. If nothing at all, I can tell them that I am from Europe and close at that. I was asking what to do with other medical workers - who, so far, were singularly RNs, who feel oblidged to "satisfy their customers" by all means possible, including spreading personal information about others.

I haven't read in this entire thread where you have actually met with your co-workers and specifically told them that you do not want them to give out any personal information about you at all to patients when they ask about you. You can't expect your co-workers to be able to read your mind or intuit that you don't want them to give out even the most basic personal information about you to patients who inquire about you (especially when you have already shared the information with them). You must take some responsibility for contributing to the unsatisfactory situation. You assume your co-workers should have the same values as you. So, if you haven't done this, I think this would be a good place to start. Good luck to you.

Specializes in Psychiatric and Mental Health NP (PMHNP).
I could buy the "just curious" or "they want to get to know their provider" rationale if the patient said something like "you have a beautiful accent, where are you from?" Instead the OP describes being called a spy, patients refusing her care, and being told that she is taking jobs from Americans. This is more than just "getting to know" her. Besides, no patient has a right to know where their provider was born, if/when they immigrated, etc.

And, why exactly, would you describe the OP's mindset as 'paranoid.' If I were a minority or an immigrant, I would be quite concerned about the overall atmosphere in parts of this country right now. Is it Trump's fault? Well, that is a debate for a different discussion board.

I stand by my comments. However, there are jerks everywhere one goes, unfortunately. 90-90% of patients are nice and appreciative, but there will be some annoying and obnoxious patients in every mix. So, the rude comments are likely from some jerks. In addition, some of those comments like being a "spy" may have been bad attempts at humor.

As far as patients refusing her care, we don't have enough information to know why exactly that happened. Patients do have a right to refuse care from a specific provider. If the refusal is due to prejudice then the clinic needs to develop a policy to deal with that.

I am a minority and the child of an immigrant. There is plenty of prejudice in "Blue" areas, too. At any rate, I don't have any problems living in a "Red" area. And we have providers from foreign countries, minorities, gays and lesbians, and none of them have had problems, either.

Specializes in Psychiatric and Mental Health NP (PMHNP).
I work mostly in hospital, so being "from the same city" is not that important.

I am just heck tired of that question, and from the "investigation" that too frequently follows. Assuming I tell them where I came from. If that would be that, I would be fine. But it just never stops at that. They "just want to know" how did I got in the USA, when I come back home, why I never come back home, do I have children, why only X of them and not more, what they are liking, who is my husband, if he is my first husband, etc., etc., etc.

In addition to this, unfortunately, I am from the country which, deservingly or not, was and is maligned all over. I have nothing to do with all that. Yet I should bear guilt and hear hurting and obscene words just because someone cannot accept (apparently, sorely needed) medical care without first inquiring into my personal life? How would you like to be told (in the most innocent tone, while you are attempting to teach patient how to get discount on a very expensive and very important medication) "oh, just please use your phone - you guys are all spies there, I am afraid you can bug mine!"

Sounds like a joke? Well, it was not.

You can name it paranoid or whatever you like, but I'm done with this so-called "curiosity". I go on only as long as I am comfortable, and after this I name things by their proper name, which sounds in my book as "being rude and nosy" as the most politically correct.

Anyway, my question was not about the patients and their "comforts". That I at least can get. If nothing at all, I can tell them that I am from Europe and close at that. I was asking what to do with other medical workers - who, so far, were singularly RNs, who feel oblidged to "satisfy their customers" by all means possible, including spreading personal information about others.

As I said above, I placed a special "nursing communication" order. Will have to see how it works, but, apparently, "not following provider's orders" brings repercussions right away. Hoping that it helps, or I do not know how I will survive 3 more years we're got to languish here.

I am sorry you are upset. I'm wondering if there are some cultural differences impacting your interactions? Perhaps in your original culture people are more private than in the US?

In small towns and rural areas in the US, patients often want to build a personal rapport with their provider and they will ask questions about you out of curiosity and an attempt to build a connection with you. They want to feel that you are part of the community and in such areas it seems everyone knows everything about everyone. In addition, in certain regions of the US, it is normal to ask a person about their family. For example, in the South, people often explore family background when meeting a new person. However, it does sound like you have had to deal with some prejudiced jerks and I am truly sorry for that. Unfortunately, such jerks exist everywhere, even in cosmopolitan cities in "Blue" areas.

We also live in an age where there is very little privacy - people willingly post all sorts of private info and photos all over social media. So, people may not respect boundaries as much in general?

Perhaps you can come up with a little spiel about yourself to satisfy general curiosity. If someone asks more questions than you want to answer, find a way to deftly turn the conversation in another area or start asking them questions.

Finally, perhaps try some humor, especially about "spying" comments.

As for nurses talking about you, depending on the information, that can definitely be cause for concern, especially if the nurses knew you considered the information private. If they really didn't understand your concerns, talk to them and to management, if necessary.

I am guessing you are from Eastern Europe. In my previous career, I worked in high tech and worked with lots of Russians, Ukrainians, and other people from Eastern Europe, and even worked for a Ukrainian company. I also have many friends from that part of the world. My impression of folks from that region is very positive - smart, hard working, tough, and once they get to know you, very kind and welcoming. However, Eastern Europeans can initially come off as cold, remote and arrogant to Americans, even though that is not intended. Personally, I'm guessing that is because Eastern Europeans can be very direct and honest and also, because of some language differences. A direct translation of a sentence that would be considered perfectly polite in their native language might be taken as rude by an American. Americans also tend to be very open about sharing information about themselves compared to some other cultures. Patients might be reacting to your demeanor in a certain way because of cultural differences. Think of yourself as a cultural anthropologist and have some fun with it. I've lived and traveled all over the U.S. and the world, and by being open and sincerely seeking to understand and learn about other peoples, have generally had very positive experiences.

A little story: when I lived in Los Angeles, I started going to an awesome Russian bakery in the "Little Russia" area. At first the two ladies who ran the bakery seemed very dour and quite frankly, scary, to me. However, after I had been there a few times, they started smiling and joking with me, and would save my favorites behind the counter for me! They turned out to be really nice.

If you are in this geographic area because of a scholarship service requirement or government loan repayment, you can get a different job before your term of service is up, even though the government doesn't like it. Otherwise, perhaps you can get someone to give you some honest feedback on how you interact with patients and vice versa. I sincerely wish you the best. It sounds like you are working hard and focusing on being an excellent NP. We need people like you!

At any rate, I don't have any problems living in a "Red" area. And we have providers from foreign countries, minorities, gays and lesbians, and none of them have had problems, either.

Making a statement that none of your minority, immigrant, and LGBT colleagues have had "any problems" is an awfully bold and broad statement to make. It would be quite the statistical anomaly if none of them had ever had any problems with prejudice.

Making a statement that none of your minority, immigrant, and LGBT colleagues have had "any problems" is an awfully bold and broad statement to make. It would be quite the statistical anomaly if none of them had ever had any problems with prejudice.

Presumably FullGlass knows his/her colleagues well enough to be able to make that statement. Also, statistics don't apply to individuals. I believe FullGlass works in a small practice with a small number of providers.

Specializes in Emergency, Telemetry, Transplant.
Presumably FullGlass knows his/her colleagues well enough to be able to make that statement. Also, statistics don't apply to individuals. I believe FullGlass works in a small practice with a small number of providers.

Or perhaps he/she works with individuals who do not want to share their bad experiences R/T prejudice with their coworkers. I know I certainly don't, no matter how well I think I know them.

Presumably FullGlass knows his/her colleagues well enough to be able to make that statement. Also, statistics don't apply to individuals. I believe FullGlass works in a small practice with a small number of providers.

Sorry this is just plain ignorant to assume that because you share an office space with people that you know if they have ever experienced prejudice in life and/or assume they haven't. If FullGlass has had explicit conversations with each of them about their prior experiences with prejudice that's one thing, but I'm not sure that really is the case. These kind of assumptions are the assumptions of the comfortable majority.

Specializes in ICU, LTACH, Internal Medicine.
I am sorry you are upset. I'm wondering if there are some cultural differences impacting your interactions? Perhaps in your original culture people are more private than in the US?

In small towns and rural areas in the US, patients often want to build a personal rapport with their provider and they will ask questions about you out of curiosity and an attempt to build a connection with you. They want to feel that you are part of the community and in such areas it seems everyone knows everything about everyone. In addition, in certain regions of the US, it is normal to ask a person about their family. For example, in the South, people often explore family background when meeting a new person. However, it does sound like you have had to deal with some prejudiced jerks and I am truly sorry for that. Unfortunately, such jerks exist everywhere, even in cosmopolitan cities in "Blue" areas.

We also live in an age where there is very little privacy - people willingly post all sorts of private info and photos all over social media. So, people may not respect boundaries as much in general?

Perhaps you can come up with a little spiel about yourself to satisfy general curiosity. If someone asks more questions than you want to answer, find a way to deftly turn the conversation in another area or start asking them questions.

Finally, perhaps try some humor, especially about "spying" comments.

As for nurses talking about you, depending on the information, that can definitely be cause for concern, especially if the nurses knew you considered the information private. If they really didn't understand your concerns, talk to them and to management, if necessary.

I am guessing you are from Eastern Europe. In my previous career, I worked in high tech and worked with lots of Russians, Ukrainians, and other people from Eastern Europe, and even worked for a Ukrainian company. I also have many friends from that part of the world. My impression of folks from that region is very positive - smart, hard working, tough, and once they get to know you, very kind and welcoming. However, Eastern Europeans can initially come off as cold, remote and arrogant to Americans, even though that is not intended. Personally, I'm guessing that is because Eastern Europeans can be very direct and honest and also, because of some language differences. A direct translation of a sentence that would be considered perfectly polite in their native language might be taken as rude by an American. Americans also tend to be very open about sharing information about themselves compared to some other cultures. Patients might be reacting to your demeanor in a certain way because of cultural differences. Think of yourself as a cultural anthropologist and have some fun with it. I've lived and traveled all over the U.S. and the world, and by being open and sincerely seeking to understand and learn about other peoples, have generally had very positive experiences.

A little story: when I lived in Los Angeles, I started going to an awesome Russian bakery in the "Little Russia" area. At first the two ladies who ran the bakery seemed very dour and quite frankly, scary, to me. However, after I had been there a few times, they started smiling and joking with me, and would save my favorites behind the counter for me! They turned out to be really nice.

If you are in this geographic area because of a scholarship service requirement or government loan repayment, you can get a different job before your term of service is up, even though the government doesn't like it. Otherwise, perhaps you can get someone to give you some honest feedback on how you interact with patients and vice versa. I sincerely wish you the best. It sounds like you are working hard and focusing on being an excellent NP. We need people like you!

Dear FullGlass,

First of all, again, I work in a rather large hospital, and such places are great concentrators of jerks of all kinds, as you probably know. If I would see the same patients in the office day after day, it surely would be different situation.

I am well aware of the fact that personal boundaries vary greatly by geography, population and other factors. This is the reason I will not live in certain areas such as USA South. I still request others to respect mine where I placed them - at least professionally.

I have little problems with patients. In fact, I am locally known as a fine master of hard talks about hospice, antivax, addiction and other unfavorable tracks of life, and I somehow do it without delving into my personal life any more than it is necessary for the case. I have problem with other providers - notably, RNs who take upon themselves to spread pieces of knowledge they got one day or another without making me knowing it (and, yes, I did spoke with them and let them know what I feel and think about it in very unequivocal terms. I did the same with nursing administration. Now they have the holy order to follow).

To make situation more clear, in that place during my first year I was forced to publicly apologize for speaking with the accent!

It did not end good neither for me, nor - on the long run- for those who did it with me. I started to really progress as a professional only after I got myself together and stopped pretending to be what I never was, and never will become. I just become myself, and I intend to continue to do just that. Sorry. And I also travelled the world and in fact lived in more than half a dozen countries. I never felt like I was forced to be more "open" than I wanted to be - except maybe for Japanese ladies' public baths :)

And, my situation has nothing to do with goverment, loans and contracts. It is about good school for a kid and good job for my husband to retire from, if you "just want to know".

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