Most Americans have strong feelings about gun control, whether in favor of more or less. Legislation has even been passed restricting physicians from discussing guns with patients. What is your opinion about healthcare professionals discussing safekeeping of guns in the home?
Gun ownership and regulation is a very emotional issue in the U.S. and there has been strong reaction to whether physicians and other healthcare providers should be involved in doing more to curb gun related injuries and deaths. I would like to hear some of your opinions regarding physician involvement, but first let's look at some of the gun statistics in the U.S.
More than 108,000 people are shot per year in murders, assaults, suicides, suicide attempts, unintentional shootings or by police intervention.
* More than 32,000 of them die.
* The U.S. has the most gun homicides of any developed nation. 29.7 per 100,000.
* Everyday 297 people are shot.
* 89 people die.
* 31 of them are murdered.
* 55 are suicides.
* 2 are killed unintentionally.
* 1 is killed by police.
* 1 is unknown intent.
* One in five deaths are people ages 15-29.
Over 17,000 American children and teens are injured or killed each year due to gun violence.
* 2,677 of those children die.
* Nearly 48 youth are shot per day including 7 fatalities.
* 5 are murdered and 2 are suicides.
1 in 3 homes with children have guns.
* 42% of parents with guns keep at least one unlocked.
* 25% of parents with guns keep at least loaded.
* 3 in 4 children know where firearms are kept in the home.
(Statistics; bradycampaign.org).
It has been suggested that clinicians could play a major role in reducing children's access to guns by asking if there is a gun in the home, and if so, counseling on firearm storage practices. One study showed that patients who received counseling on firearm storage were more likely to make a change in storage practice than patients who did not receive counseling. (64% vs 33%). (J Am Board Fam.Pract).
Pediatrician's offices and hospitals routinely give out infant and car seats, would it also be appropriate to distribute trigger locks and lockboxes? Firearm related injuries are a public health issue, so should there be public health initiatives regarding firearms such as there have been for reducing tobacco, toy and motor vehicle related deaths?
Are you seriously saying that basic knowledge in preventative care education is "the doctor's job not our responsibility?" Because that is how I interpreted that!
I know the answer to all those questions I posed. I do not have kids nor do I work with peds patients or even ER or any position where I would need to educate on those points.
So why is it so demanding to ask nurses to have a basic understanding about what they are educating about?
"Quit smoking" wouldn't be very useful if every smoker already quit smoking already.
That is why limiting my education of smokers to "quit smoking its bad" is all I need to know.
OK. Snark Off.
Seriously.
Patients have concerns and objections.
If all you want is to check a box on an assessment/education/discharge note, then no knowledge is required besides telling every patient "buckle up, have a smoke detector, lock up your guns, and quit smoking! The hospital exit is over there, thanks, bye!"
If you actually want your words to mean something, then have knowledge so you can address patient concerns.
Let's see how a conversation goes if you limit of your knowledge is that gun should be locked up.
Nurse: "Lock up your guns to keep your kids from having a terrible accident."
Patient: "I cannot afford a $500 gun safe"
Nurse: "Umm well it is important"
Patient: "I also don't have room for a safe."
Nurse: "It is for child safety. You need to lock up your guns."
Patient: "Gun safes weigh 300-1000 pounds. I have a bad back and live on the second floor. What am I supposed to do?"
Nurse: "uhhhh..... find a way to lock up your guns"
Patient: "I want to be able to have quick access to a weapon, and I can't quickly open a combo lock... do you have a solution for that?"
If you had a bit of knowledge, you'd have some answers to help your patient find a way to lock up their guns. Do you know the difference between a cable lock and a trigger lock? No? But I bet you know the difference between nicotine gum and a nicotine patch and that they come in different doses.
"Lock up your guns" and nothing more is OK if you are a nurse who just does the bare minimum and checks boxes.
This is angsty. Really.
I answered the question.
We have guns.
We lock them up.
If you can afford a gun, spring for a safe. Good lord.
If you can afford a gun, spring for a safe. Good lord.
I'm speaking from 12 years of public safety education and rescue: People happily buy $10,000 toys and then balk at spending $500 on safety equipment.
You have to convince people through education why they should do this, overcome their objections, address their concerns, and make it easy for them to do the right thing.
You don't tell HF patients, "don't eat salt its bad. Take your meds. Do what we tell you because it is good for you and don't expect me to explain why." Why are guns different?
You need to have more information than a billboard on the side of a highway if you want any better results. More people see the billboard than you. You'd better be convincing.
Specializes in Critical Care, Med-Surg, Psych, Geri, LTC, Tele,.
Way more kids are injured by dogs each year than are injured by firearms.
Don't get me wrong -- I'm a huge dog-lover and have three Labs in my home.
There is no one single answer that fits every single family's needs. Everyone should educate themselves on their chosen method(s). The problem (IMO) is that nobody wants to be responsible for their own actions anymore.
I'm not against gun ownership. I hope I didn't come across that way.
I'm all for the NRA and have gone to the range multiple times.
I just meant to say that keeping my kid safe from a gun in our tiny home seemed difficult if not impossible.
Unless I kept my gun locked up. And the bullets locked seperately....which would defeat my personal purpose of having a gun available for self defense.
But, yes, also I agree. Dogs can be dangerous too. Especially my wild young GSD! lol! (Attempt at humor)
But I still don't think my child is at risk of the dog killing him at the same level of risk as would be a loaded ready gun at home.
I don't want to debate. Really!! I was simply sharing my own feelings.
I'm pro gun ownership, but *I* simply couldn't find a way to do it that left me feeling well about also having a young Preteen.
No, I'm not as worried about the dog hurting him as I would worry about having a gun in the house.
I'm not against gun ownership. I hope I didn't come across that way.
I'm all for the NRA and have gone to the range multiple times.
I just meant to say that keeping my kid safe from a gun in our tiny home seemed difficult if not impossible.
Unless I kept my gun locked up. And the bullets locked seperately....which would defeat my personal purpose of having a gun available for self defense.
But, yes, also I agree. Dogs can be dangerous too. Especially my wild young GSD! lol! (Attempt at humor)
But I still don't think my child is at risk of the dog killing him at the same level of risk as would be a loaded ready gun at home.
I don't want to debate. Really!! I was simply sharing my own feelings.
I'm pro gun ownership, but *I* simply couldn't find a way to do it that left me feeling well about also having a young Preteen.
No, I'm not as worried about the dog hurting him as I would worry about having a gun in the house.
I hope this clarifies my post.
Yes. It means you are pro gun ownership until you REALLY think about it, especially when it comes to how to store it, and your preteen.
Are you seriously saying that basic knowledge in preventative care education is "the doctor's job not our responsibility?" Because that is how I interpreted that!
I know the answer to all those questions I posed. I do not have kids nor do I work with peds patients or even ER or any position where I would need to educate on those points.
So why is it so demanding to ask nurses to have a basic understanding about what they are educating about?
"Quit smoking" wouldn't be very useful if every smoker already quit smoking already.
That is why limiting my education of smokers to "quit smoking its bad" is all I need to know.
OK. Snark Off.
Seriously.
Patients have concerns and objections.
If all you want is to check a box on an assessment/education/discharge note, then no knowledge is required besides telling every patient "buckle up, have a smoke detector, lock up your guns, and quit smoking! The hospital exit is over there, thanks, bye!"
If you actually want your words to mean something, then have knowledge so you can address patient concerns.
I'm not sure where you're quoting me from since I never said what you're quoting, and no I don't think risk assessment and education is only the responsibility of Physicians, this particular example though is most likely going to come from a Pediatrician or a pediatric ARNP since it's a standard part of their assessment based on professional practice recommendations.
Where did anyone argue that those doing the assessment should not have any or minimal knowledge of what they're talking about. I have guns in the home and our pediatrician asked about it, and I'm glad they did, she was actually very knowledgeable about various methods of securing guns.
If your gun is locked up to the point where you can't easily have it ready for unexpected burglaries or zombies, then what is the point?
I have a Gunvault Speedvault handgun safe with a fingerprint sensor, I can have it ready actually much faster than if I was just stashing it somewhere, it's essentially instant access.
I'm speaking from 12 years of public safety education and rescue: People happily buy $10,000 toys and then balk at spending $500 on safety equipment.
You have to convince people through education why they should do this, overcome their objections, address their concerns, and make it easy for them to do the right thing.
You don't tell HF patients, "don't eat salt its bad. Take your meds. Do what we tell you because it is good for you and don't expect me to explain why." Why are guns different?
You need to have more information than a billboard on the side of a highway if you want any better results. More people see the billboard than you. You'd better be convincing.
That's why we have doctors and nurses, to educate and explain how to optimize and protect their health, that's the question; should doctors and nurse address guns in the home (ie should they assess, educate, explain, etc about guns in the home).
We manage to get people to tell us about drug use - something that's actually illegal - I think we can figure out a way to get patients to answer a question like, "If you have any guns in the house, are they secured so your kids can't reach them?"
Because if this thread has taught us anything it's that people who own guns are terribly paranoid
I'm not sure where you're quoting me from since I never said what you're quoting,
Yes. You did in your response to me. My quote of you is hyperlinked to your post. I did not change anything you said. Your post is still there. Go and reread it if you do not remember.
and no I don't think risk assessment and education is only the responsibility of Physicians, this particular example though is most likely going to come from a Pediatrician or a pediatric ARNP since it's a standard part of their assessment based on professional practice recommendations.
OK. Then we are on the same page and I took your comment differently than you meant it. Sorry.
Where did anyone argue that those doing the assessment should not have any or minimal knowledge of what they're talking about.
People in this thread (eg Farawyn, others) have said providers don't have to know anything about guns in order to educate about them, only that they are dangerous and should be locked up. Ixchel lampooned those arguing for basic knowledge.
My response was assuming you were on the "knowledge isn't necessary" side of the fence.
our pediatrician asked about it, and I'm glad they did, she was actually very knowledgeable about various methods of securing guns.
That's great! That is all I'm saying!
You don't have to be a deer hunting, dead-eye, firearms instructor to teach people about basic firearm safety. All I'm arguing: if healthcare has decided that securing firearms is part of preventative medicine, they should have the knowledge to educate and enable patients to be safe. Combine that with a thoughtful and non-intrusive approach, and we might make a difference.
Because if this thread has taught us anything it's that people who own guns are terribly paranoid
Not paranoid, in my opinion - but some are totally unwilling to be responsible for the possible consequences of their choices.
"Gun owners", "enthusiasts" - whatever you choose to call them - are not a monolithic, homogenous group, all thinking the same way. These threads tend to be dominated by people who seem to be lifting their opinions straight from gun industry PR. Of course they're going to attack any attempt to address or minimize the unintended consequences of their behavior.
We're still gonna ask the question - if a parent gets upset about it, well that tells us something, too.
I'm frankly struck by the fact that no one who has objected to the question has mentioned firearms safety training for children. An interesting show of priorities.
Farawyn
12,646 Posts
This is angsty. Really.
I answered the question.
We have guns.
We lock them up.
If you can afford a gun, spring for a safe. Good lord.