Should BSNs be paid more?

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I know ADNs and BSNs both sit for the same NCLEX exam, both have approximately four years of education, and at best have negligible differences (over time) in their nursing skills. BSNs take courses than broaden their overall knowledge; however, ADNs have more clinical experience prior to entering the workforce. Should there be a differential for BSNs, or should the reward for obtaining a BSN lie in the ability to advance one's career?

I'm not trying to start an ADN vs BSN bashing, I'm just curious to see what you all think.

Annette,

I agree that nurses must stop eating their young and mistreating eachother. Don't get me wrong, those of us who advocate for a B.S.N. as entry are not under any misguided impression that this will solve all our problems. Nurses certianly must start being more assertive. (Personally, I think every nursing student recieves a course in Codependency 101.) Until nurses stop tolerating mistreatment, it will continue.

Allow me to clarify: Advocating for a B.S.N. as entry does not mean that the current nurses who hold an ADN or diploma would no longer be able to practice. It would only be a requirement for new nurses. North Dakota made a B.S.N. the minimum, and seems to be having few problems.

There are valid arguments on both sides.

I'll post more in the morning.

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Specializes in Education, Acute, Med/Surg, Tele, etc.

NO! I had to take the same boards and passed with TWO years to do it! I got thrown into the mix and made it...and what...more theory??? Hello..how many of us said book smarts go out the door after grad!? A nurse out of school...no matter what their degree has the school of hard knocks right then and there..no matter the training! My goodness...books be darned..I learned more from BEING there, being forced to do it...seeing my patients eyes depending on me...that I took what I learned from the book smarts...and did what I do AS A NURSE, the arts I learned and DID IT!

I am an ADN..but considered an admin with more common sence and practical skills than many of my peers...why? Because I was oriented to be...wanted to be...A NURSE. Sorry if I didn't have the money to go get my BSN...but that souldn't hurt me..just like peoples abilty to pay for services rendered by us! I got a grant...full grant...to become a nurse...I took it..and dog gone I won't let myself, my family, my friends or the people of this great state of OREGON down...ADN or not......

Yes...I am an ADN...but a darned good nurse...so why shouldn't I be paid the same as any other GOOD NURSE! I had to do in two that others had to take four....the difference is...let school fall into the wayward...I wanted it, I did it, I do it, and I am good at it!

I have NEVER appologized for being and ADN...because guess what...the patient doesn't know the difference! I do the same! AND THEY ARE THE ONES THAT COUNT! Remember that..and next time...heck..ask them instead of other nurses...we are bias by being in the field ya know!

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Specializes in NICU.
I had to do in two that others had to take four

2 years here too, with a BSN ..... 2 years of nursing classes.

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Specializes in CCU, Cardiac/Pulmonary.
I'm not trying to nitpick, but not all ADN graduates have more clinical experience than BSN graduates. My BSN program includes three years of clinicals at about 12-16 hours per week. The first two years of clinicals are in the hospital, and the final year is spent studying community health and doing clinicals in a variety of different settings.

The whole "BSN programs are all theory with less clinical time" idea is a myth.

And...the BSN program at my school takes closer to 5 years to finish.

I have to agree that the BSN program I attended required more clinical hours than any of the ADN programs in our area (4 ADN programs are in the area to the one BSN program). Not only was the clinical time for our program 16-24 hours weekly, the prep time required prior to clinical was usually 4 hours in the hospital or clinic the day before to research the patients assigned - medical hx, social/psych hx, procedures scheduled, and medications. Please end the myth that BSN nurses do not put in the same amount of clinical hours. To add to the mix, how many ADN nurses were required to write a paper every semester that required a minimum of 20 pages not including the reference list? My total hours to acquire my BSN degree were 139. A local hospital in our area has required that all managers have a BSN within the next 2 years in order to keep their jobs. Where did it come from? From the requirements to gain magnet status. So where is the push coming from for BSN degrees?

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Specializes in Med-Surg.
Yes...I am an ADN...but a darned good nurse...so why shouldn't I be paid the same as any other GOOD NURSE! I had to do in two that others had to take four....the difference is...let school fall into the wayward...I wanted it, I did it, I do it, and I am good at it!

Advocating for an educational differential is not saying they are better nurses than ADNs, or that you're not a good nurse because you're an ADN.

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Specializes in Med-Surg.
Well frankly the clinical/technical experience sounds like my RN program (ADN). We did LOTS of procedures in clinicals----we had plenty of time to practice, doing 12 hour shifts for 2 semsters, and 8s during the other 3.........

But let's face it....RN's are not techincal nurses........technical skills can be picked up in practice. The "whys" are AT least as important as the "how", IMO. So, many RN programs focus a lot more on those "why's" (rightly so) as the "hows" can be picked up quite quickly on the job.

BINGO

I get a bit frustrated experienced RNs judging new grad RNs. "When I was in school back in the stone age, we did it differently....."

Pathophys.- knowing what the patient has, how to assess it, what are the nursing interventions, what to look for, potential complications, assessment (big one for me) - what is normal, what isn't normal, if it's not normal is it critical, what actions to I have to take now, therapeutic communication - how to talk to a patient, how to understand family dynamics, delagation - how to work well with others, critical thinking, interpreting labs and diagnostics etc.

Learning this takes time in the classroom. I'm all for long preceptorships and more clinicals, but don't understate the importance of the bookwork and the non-technical aspect of nursing school. (And offer a diff for those who have more education and certification....just thought I'd stay on topic. LOL)

I'll show you how to do a rectal temp if you haven't done it, we can practice IVs if you've only started a couple. The rest of the stuff above you learn in school before you come to me because we aren't technical nurses only performing tasks.

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Specializes in Med-Surg.
Wow beginning to realize how much I can type...LOL

Annette

I think the same thing when I look at the number of posts I've made. LOL

You've made some excellent posts and I appreciate your participation in this discussion. Please don't hold back.

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Specializes in ED, Cardiac Medicine, Retail Health.
I have to agree that the BSN program I attended required more clinical hours than any of the ADN programs in our area (4 ADN programs are in the area to the one BSN program). Not only was the clinical time for our program 16-24 hours weekly, the prep time required prior to clinical was usually 4 hours in the hospital or clinic the day before to research the patients assigned - medical hx, social/psych hx, procedures scheduled, and medications. Please end the myth that BSN nurses do not put in the same amount of clinical hours. To add to the mix, how many ADN nurses were required to write a paper every semester that required a minimum of 20 pages not including the reference list? My total hours to acquire my BSN degree were 139. A local hospital in our area has required that all managers have a BSN within the next 2 years in order to keep their jobs. Where did it come from? From the requirements to gain magnet status. So where is the push coming from for BSN degrees?

Well in my ADN Program we are required to write a paper and do a presentation each semester. Until nursing education is standardized, in my opinion it should be, this debate will never end. Not so long ago nurses were trainied to perform their jobs without the need of a college degree. Sure, the degree legitamizes the demand for higher wages and more peer respect, but the infighting and lack of unity among nurses in general is of far greater concern than a few letters on a name tag.

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Specializes in Critical Care, ER.
During my first year of nursing school I was worried to death that I wasn't going to know enough after graduation, I felt in 2 short years there was no way I'd know enough to be able to be a nurse.

Then one of my dear instructors told me that passing the NCLEX gives you a license to LEARN, it's ok if you haven't mastered all the skills, etc before graduation because it's impossible to "know it all" once you graduate.

So ADN and BSN both pass the NCLEX, right? Ok, so that gives us the license to learn once we start working.

That's exactly right. :)

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It could also be a union-initiated benefit. Throw it on the table and start making it a standard bargaining chip.

As a Nurse in a union, I can tell you this will never happen. Unions take the premise that everyone is the same. Until we have Apprentice Nurses, Journeyman Nurses and Master Nurses (as you find in plumbing, electricians, meat cutters etc.) unions will not take the attitude that more education is worth more money. I remember about 20 years ago the Wisconsin Nurses Association wanted to change titles. ADNs and LPNs would become RANs (Registered Associate Nurse) and BSNs would be RPNs (Registered Professional Nurse). Between the time that it was announced that this was to be discussed at the next meeting and the meeting, this item was taken off the agenda. With this proposal there was a long time lead (10-15 years) in so that no one would have been caught off guard and been put into a "lower" classification.

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Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.

I wish folks could get over the "BSN is better" mentality. YES---- we all passed the same NCLEX. That is not the point!

Those of us saying there should be education differentials are not saying they (BSN nurses) are better; we ARE saying there should be rewards for the initiative to continue and strengthen our education. Nursing, in order to advance in this century, and be the true profession, will need to educate itself educationally. It simply won't happen unless and until we put a premium on advanced education. Mark my words.

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Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
As a Nurse in a union, I can tell you this will never happen. Unions take the premise that everyone is the same. Until we have Apprentice Nurses, Journeyman Nurses and Master Nurses (as you find in plumbing, electricians, meat cutters etc.) unions will not take the attitude that more education is worth more money. I remember about 20 years ago the Wisconsin Nurses Association wanted to change titles. ADNs and LPNs would become RANs (Registered Associate Nurse) and BSNs would be RPNs (Registered Professional Nurse). Between the time that it was announced that this was to be discussed at the next meeting and the meeting, this item was taken off the agenda. With this proposal there was a long time lead (10-15 years) in so that no one would have been caught off guard and been put into a "lower" classification.

actually, you mispoke, I am afraid. In my unionized hospital, BSN nurses DO get a differential. But it's not enough in my opinion.

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