Should BSNs be paid more?

Nurses General Nursing

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I know ADNs and BSNs both sit for the same NCLEX exam, both have approximately four years of education, and at best have negligible differences (over time) in their nursing skills. BSNs take courses than broaden their overall knowledge; however, ADNs have more clinical experience prior to entering the workforce. Should there be a differential for BSNs, or should the reward for obtaining a BSN lie in the ability to advance one's career?

I'm not trying to start an ADN vs BSN bashing, I'm just curious to see what you all think.

Specializes in med/surg, ortho/neuro, ambulatory surg.
If it takes the same amount of time ??? Why would you want to get an associate's instead of a bachelor's. That just does not seem to make logical sense at all. Because if you then decide you want to further your career and get a master's you need to have a bachelor's. On the question about which should make more money. I know people probably won't agree but IMHO 1. Nurses should be paid more in general and 2. BSN should be the minumum required degree to become an RN. I think by setting this standard it will be easier to demand the higher wages we deserve and gain more respect from other members of the health care profession.

In response to that I am fixing to graduate with my ADN and going to work part time while earning my MSN it is a fast track program at Texas Tech straight from ADN to MSN. It will only take me 5 semesters to complete my MSN ;)

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I agree. Everyone who says that nurses should make more money.... well there's a reason that we don't. There's a reason why we are on the bottom of the totem pole when it comes to salary. Do you really think they are going to pay a hundred thousand dollars a yr for a degree that a person can go to school 2 yrs to get? By wanting to prove and hold on to the notion that we as a profession are fine as we are and needs no further education requirements, we are driving down our own salaries.

Right now, I know that the PA programs are in the process of requiring that Masters Degree be the entry level requirement. Do you think that those people are upset, and saying that hey our BS is just as good as the Masters, and so on, and so on. No!! Will having the Masters make them better PA's? Probably, more education in your career can only help. And, not only that, its going to drive up their money even more! Thats why docs and PA's and pharmacists make what they make. Because it's not something that one can obtain in a couple of yrs. If it were we would probably be a nation filled with people who were making 6 figures a yr.

I feel that we should embrace growth, and not stifle it in our profession.... it can only help us.

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Do any hospitals pay someone with an ADN and a BA in something else a higher rate??? Just wondering. It's like having a BSN+. I'm about to start an ADN program now because I'm older and can't stay out of the workforce for very long (and no accelerated BSNs that work for me nearby). Anyway, I HOPE this whole discussion will become moot within a decade as everyone moves to BSN.

I don't know about ADN and BA in something else, but in other healthcare areas there is a difference in 2yr vs. 4yr. For example, in the laboratory there are medical lab techNICIANS (MLT) who went to school for 2 yrs at a community college and have a AS degree and medical techNOLOGISTS (MT) who went college and have BS degree - they both do EXACTLY the same jobs in the lab but the pay is not usually significantly different at entry level, but climbs rapidly as experience level increases - they both studied the same things, very similar to the differences in ADN vs. BSN programs. (I know this because I have a AS-MLT degree and now an ADN degree). As you can see, they have DIFFERENT names and they take DIFFERENT exams for certification. The MT exam presumes that the person taking it will have a better understanding of the theory and tests more heavily in theory and management issues. I worked as an MLT for 25 yrs - and yes, I was a much better tech than a lot of MT-BS people who were hired in the later years of my career, BUT, the bottom line was, the BS-MT's got the pay and they were chosen for the supervisor and management jobs. No matter how good I was nor how often I proved myself by DOING the job in the interim of a vacancy opened up - I never got the promotion. So, when I reached my "ceiling" on the wage scale, I had 2 options, be happy with just COLA or go back to school. I chose back to school, but for Nursing - now I will continue on to get my BSN because I've seen what a difference it can make down the line.

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NO.

I'll have my BSN in about a year and a half, but I don't think I should be paid any more money than another RN if we are doing the SAME job. A Registered Nurse is a Registered Nurse.

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HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IF they ahve even had the experience of working with IV tubing while in school!

Pardon my rant, but it just bugs me so to see some of these nursing students who have so little hands-on experience.

You know what - it BUGS us too that we didn't get much hands-on experience. I'm glad I haven't run into you - I'm not a sr nursing student, I'm a new grad ADN and I can takskile a rectal temp, but if the needed skill happened to be an enema or to cath a male patient, oh well - I'd be terrified because I never got to do either of those even ONCE while in school. And I have been asked, more times than I'd like to admit, "didn't they teach you that in nursing school" by my supervisor and other nurses. It really does a number on my self-confidence.....just thought you'd like to know - schools are turning us out w/o the needed experiences but there is nothing WE the student and new grads can do about. Sorry that we get on your "last nerve".

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and-----if you think nursing is not about power, you are not thinking about our diminishing roles in healthcare overall ( example: tptb feel they can and will replace licensed nurses with cma's in many hospitals and ltcs)--- the need for our strong voice to stop changes that diminish us is greater than it ever was. whether you like it or not, politics comes into play. how are we ever to make inroads or political gains without education?

answer: we won't.

i agree. if i didn't have power, and didn't (more importantly) believe i had the power, i couldn't do what i do. my caring for the patient is much different than bedside nursing, and far more behind-the-scenes. while i can hold hands and provide warm blankets, and soothe nervous pts prior to anesthesia, my big job begins when they are asleep and paralyzed. they are very, very vulnerable. i must go toe-to-toe with physicians and occasionally other nurses to keep my patient safe. i make sure the positioning is perfect, and make sure aseptic technique is right on. if its not, i come right out and say so, and everything stops until things have been righted. outside of the or, i want power, too - power to advocate for all nurses' right to a safe working environment with adequate compensation. when we suffer, the pt suffers, and research has borne this out. we are a big group of employees (nurses) and just our sheer size is a powerful force, if we use it wisely, and with one voice. oh, yeah, and i have a bsn.

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and i have been asked, more times than i'd like to admit, "didn't they teach you that in nursing school" by my supervisor and other nurses. it really does a number on my self-confidence.....just thought you'd like to know - schools are turning us out w/o the needed experiences but there is nothing we the student and new grads can do about. sorry that we get on your "last nerve".

i know what you mean! but, anymore, in certain states, nursing students cannot, by law, perform certain nursing tasks. as for the foley, rectal temp, etc. some nursing classes are so huge that there aren't enough pts for nsg students to practice in a clinical session, and there definitely isn't enough nsg instructors to supervise adequately. i was lucky: there were only 8 nsg students in my class, and i typically had 2 or 3 pts at a time during clinicals. when i worked as a pct, i noticed that other schools' nsg students didn't even get an assigned pt! that's pretty shocking! when i was doing peds clinicals, there often was not enough of a peds population in our hospital for me to have my own pt. i remember going down to the nicu to see if anyone would let me just watch! i learned a lot from being a pct, and i often recommend it to any nsg student. it gives you lots of practice, and lots of observational experience. nsg school ain't what it used to be in lots of respects. if you're lucky, like me, you go to a small school, with a director who is "old school" and requires a certain standard for their students. i hated it then, but i'm grateful for it now.

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IMO, I agree with the "everyone should get paid more" thing.

But one thing I wanted to add and I saw it in my LVN school. Book smarts doesn't actually make the best nurse. You can have the smartest person in the class, she has the highest grades, she tests awesome, but put her in a clinical setting and she crashes.

I think there is much to be said about any nurse who has experience over education.

So to make a long opinion a short one, a person should get paid more based on their evals, not thier education.

Nuff said.

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Specializes in Med-Surg, Trauma, Ortho, Neuro, Cardiac.
Ali gator,

You qouted me, I did not take a cheap shot... I didnot classify all BSN's as being what I experienced. I did state I know they(BSN Good ones) are out there and I hope to encounter one as a patient. That is not a cheap shot, that is just stating from my experience. That is not a cheap shot, there are alot of BSN's that I have worked with and work with that I respect at many levels. So please reread what I wrote cause it wasn't a cheap shot.

Annette

You wrote that you'd rather have an experienced ADN nurse than a BSN nurse at any level. What makes that a cheap shot is that instead of saying something like "I don't want those BSN nurses at that facility to take care of me", you instead said the above.

So perhaps that's why you got the strong reaction.

However, I didn't miss you main points and they are valid concerns and opinions, and please feel free to voice any you have. If you think ADN nurses are better nurses that's your right. (You handle a flame very well, :))

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Specializes in Med-Surg, Trauma, Ortho, Neuro, Cardiac.
HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IF they ahve even had the experience of working with IV tubing while in school!

Pardon my rant, but it just bugs me so to see some of these nursing students who have so little hands-on experience.

You know what - it BUGS us too that we didn't get much hands-on experience. I'm glad I haven't run into you - I'm not a sr nursing student, I'm a new grad ADN and I can takskile a rectal temp, but if the needed skill happened to be an enema or to cath a male patient, oh well - I'd be terrified because I never got to do either of those even ONCE while in school. And I have been asked, more times than I'd like to admit, "didn't they teach you that in nursing school" by my supervisor and other nurses. It really does a number on my self-confidence.....just thought you'd like to know - schools are turning us out w/o the needed experiences but there is nothing WE the student and new grads can do about. Sorry that we get on your "last nerve".

You know I went through ADN school having started one IV, one foley insertion, and never took a rectal temp, never put down an NG. a lot of tasks I hadn't performed.

You know what? I managed to get through 8 weeks with a great preceptor and supportive staff that didn't mind teaching me tasks. I came armed passing NCLEX, with head-to-toe assessment skills, knowing what to look for with certain diagnosises, etc. etc. and I'm the best dang nurse you'd ever want taking care of you.

My RN to BSN is going to help me tremendously in my bedside practice.

So what if I hadn't done a rectal temp?

O.K. back to the topic. :)

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Ali gator,

You qouted me, I did not take a cheap shot... I didnot classify all BSN's as being what I experienced. I did state I know they(BSN Good ones) are out there and I hope to encounter one as a patient. That is not a cheap shot, that is just stating from my experience. That is not a cheap shot, there are alot of BSN's that I have worked with and work with that I respect at many levels. So please reread what I wrote cause it wasn't a cheap shot.

Annette

Your post suggests that every B.S.N. you have ever encountered is an elistist jerk: incompetent and uncaring. I consider this a cheap shot. If you wish to be taken seriously in arguing against a B.S.N. as entry into practice, I suggest you offer some constructive, intelligent reasons as to why you believe as you do. The "little B.S.N. who couldn't" stories hardly add to your credibility. There are incompetent, uncaring nurses all across the board, they are not exclusively B.S.N.s. I've met some pretty hateful L.V.N.s, too. I for one decided to go into nursing because I AM caring, and I love working with people. I decided to pursue a B.S.N. because I want a college degree, as I greatly value higher education.

You mentioned that you plan to fight against a B.S.N. as entry into practice. Hospitals, insurance companies, and probably the AMA are fighting against it as well. I'll give you a clue-- they don't have your best interests in mind. Have you ever stopped to think that the push for higher education is to serve the interests of YOUR profession? It's not elitism. You might want to read Nursing Against the Odds, by Suzanne Gordan. It sheds some light on many current issues in nursing, including the education debate.

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[.

So what if I hadn't done a rectal temp?

:)

Shhh... Don't tell, but I've never done a rectal temp and I've been a nurse for years...

Ok, NOW back to the topic.... :chuckle

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