Sex Discrimination or not?

[VAC]

I am a male nurse working for almost 2 years on a med surge floor. I recently interviewed for an L&D position. During the panel interview the question came up at to whether I would be able to do the job as to my gender with certain cultures. I question myself now as to should I go to HR to discuss this or leave it. If I fight on this point, I feel I have a good chance of winning, but I would still have to work with those that did not feel I could do the job because of my sex. This is the second time I have interviewed and the manager suggests I try mother baby post partum of which I have been turned down for in the past for other reasons.

Tell me what you think.

[DutchgirlRN, ASN, RN]

whatever makes the patient more comfortable is what should be considered above all else. imho

yes, male nurses are just as capable of doing l&d as female nurses but who really cares? it's what makes the patient comfortable that is important. i've had male patients ask for a male to catherize them. no big deal. i totally understand. i'd rather have a male nurse catherize my dh than a female nurse. do i think she would be turned on? hell no. it's what my dh would be more comfortable with. it has nothing to do with proving a point or saying which sex is better at which job.

we need to be real. most females would prefer a female l&d nurse. i don't think it's a sexiest issue. why a male nurse would want to fight an uphill battle to get an l&d job and then fight more battles having patients turn them away is beyond me. there are more important nursing issues to be fought and won.

[MB37]

I'm another who believes that any woman who sees or has seen (and didn't have an awful experience with) a male OB/GYN should cheerfully accept a male nurse. If she allows a male med student or intern to be present, the male nursing students should have the opportunity to be there as well. Why should male nurses never consider going into OB, yet male physicians do it every day?. I'm only a student, but I have to look at my male patients' genitalia on a pretty much daily basis in clinical. It's never been an issue for me or my patients. If I had a guy who didn't want me to put in his catheter, I might have to explain to him (nicely) that while I'd be happy to ask the male on the floor to do it for now, his nursing staff would be providing catheter care and bathing him every shift while he was here and there might not always be a male available.

I've been to a male OB/GYN once, and he was just fine. Usually I see CNMs, and most of them are women. I've never requested a woman, I just take what I get. I've also never requested a nurse or physician who shared my race or my religion, or my country of origin. Might I be more "comfortable" with someone who was more like me? I guess I should start asking my care providers what shoe size they wear, because anyone else who has to wear a 9 would understand exactly where I'm coming from. Aren't we all professionals? Shouldn't that be all that our patients ask of us? If you do have a pt whose religion prohibits opposite gender care, it seems reasonable to accomodate that pt if possible. However, male nurses should be as welcome in L&D as male physicians are as OB/GYNs.

See if you actually get the job, and then maybe discuss your concerns with HR as recommended above. I could see a question worded like, "how would you respond if a pt requested a female?" since it probably will happen at some point and they'd like to know you won't fly off the handle. Anything else just is not OK.

[DutchgirlRN, ASN, RN]

i'm another who believes that any woman who sees or has seen (and didn't have an awful experience with) a male ob/gyn should cheerfully accept a male nurse.

should cheerfully except a male nurse?

[sirI, MSN, APRN, NP]

Thread closed for staff review.

[tnbutterfly - Mary, BSN]

Thread is now re-opened.

Please remember to focus on the issues. We promote the idea of lively debate. This means you are free to disagree with anyone on any type of subject matter as long as your criticism is constructive and polite.

Personal attacks, however, will not be tolerated.

[VAC]

Thanks for all the discussions on this issue. While I continue to work at my present position I will discuss with HR my concerns with the interview to see what can be done in the future. I really appreciate all the support you have given and will endever to make my peaceful march into L&D. It may take a while but I will get there eventually.

Please keep the discussion going and I will let you know how it goes with HR.

[Agnus]

Thanks for all the discussions on this issue. While I continue to work at my present position I will discuss with HR my concerns with the interview to see what can be done in the future. I really appreciate all the support you have given and will endever to make my peaceful march into L&D. It may take a while but I will get there eventually.

Please keep the discussion going and I will let you know how it goes with HR.

VAC I p.m.'d you

[CHATSDALE]

when i was a student there was a ruling that no female student could be in or during a tupr, orchietomy etc in surgeries considering male genitalia: however once there were returned to floor any nurse available that shift cared for the patient

they also would not allow male students in l/d, these were the hospital rules and no student took it upon themselves to object

to my knowledge they did not ask the patients themselves if they had any objection or preferences

i hope you find your ideal job where ever that might be

[Jeffthenurse]

I'm happy to have been a part of this interesting and intellectually stimulating thread. Thanks to all of you for your comments even if we disagreed.

I have a few more.....a few years ago in a hospital in a suburb of Philadelphia, PA, a situation occurred in the L&D unit that really shamed the hospital. A couple from a rural part of PA refused to have ANY black employee, nurse, physician, housekeeper, dietary, etc, come into their room, let alone participate in the birth of their baby. The staff appealed to the nursing supervisor and she and the hospital sided with the patient and her husband! I was appalled, it was on all the news stations and radio talk shows, and the hospital really came out smelling like garbage, and after lots of screaming, and apologizing, the hospital promised it wouldn't happen again.

Also, if a patient refuses a nurse based on gender, race, religion, or whatever, and it's made a rule that that nurse not go into the patient's room, it's not OK if there was an emergency and the nurse found the patient on the floor bleeding, for that nurse to avoid the room..... It would be malpractice and the nurse would be held accountable. So the patients have it all ways. Now you see why so many nurses feel discriminated against and now you see what also contributes to the nursing shortage.

I've fought this battle for over 30 years and work in home care now, on the patients' turf! If a female patient doesn't want me, I don't argue with her or argue with the agency. But I do tell her that if I'm on call and a problem arises (with a foley or wound care near a private part, for example), I will call her but she might have to go to the ER if she doesn't want me to go to her house. That alone sometimes will get her to change her mind.

[DutchgirlRN, ASN, RN]

i did a hh visit on a very elderly woman last week who needed to be straight cathed to r/o a uti. this woman was not seen out of our branch but another 40 miles away. apparently the only nurse they had available that day to do a prn visit was a male nurse. the patient stated she only wanted a female nurse. i never gave it a second thought and off i went.

[justme1972]

Get real.... It may be " blatant discrimination " but that is the reality of the situation. Is it right? NO Will it change in the near future? Probably not. They can always " find " a reason not to hire someone. This may not be a " popular " statement, however it happens. Bottom line: MOST patients and / or husbands do NOT want a male nurse or even a male student. This makes a male in L&D a bad return on investment and a drain on the other staff members.

But here is the problem.

If a male nurse decided to persue it legally (which most won't, but let's say that one did), a hospital would have a very hard time explaining in court why they have males working in every department except L&D, especially when well qualified males apply for jobs and if they are consistently passed over and only females are ever hired.

As another poster said, if a woman is going to a male OB-GYN (which the majority of them do seem to be male) then that same woman sholdn't have a problem with a male nurse.

As yet another poster said, a patient can discriminate but a hospital cannot...especially if that same hospital is accepting gov't grants to fund certain programs or accepting medicaid.

I personally went to a female OB-GYN, I did not want a male. I did get a male nurse on one of my days in the hospital when I had my twins, and as long as it was routine stuff, I didn't have a problem with it...but when he wanted to check my incision, see how much I was bleeding, I smiled and said politely, "Would you be offended if I prefered a female nurse to do that?"

He smiled back and said, "I'll get one right away, I understand, happens all the time."

Another female came in, did the check, and he finished everything else.

I think it's the intimate part of the care (which doesn't take that long) that women have an issue with...not the fact that there is a male present.

[casi, ASN, RN]

I kind of see this questions as them asking you about a real life problem and how you would solve it. I don't care what floor you work on, at some point a female will refuse a male caregiver and a male will refuse a female caregiver.

I'm curious how you answered this? I would think my answer would be "The same way we do it in med-surg, make a few assignment adjustments and go along on our merry way."

I am really appalled by some of the nursing claiming that males aren't allowed in L&D. Just because that is your perception, doesn't mean that it's the truth. I've seen a male physician my entire life and wouldn't think twice about a male nurse entering walking into my room and introducing themselves as my nurse.