Sex Discrimination or not?

Published

I am a male nurse working for almost 2 years on a med surge floor. I recently interviewed for an L&D position. During the panel interview the question came up at to whether I would be able to do the job as to my gender with certain cultures. I question myself now as to should I go to HR to discuss this or leave it. If I fight on this point, I feel I have a good chance of winning, but I would still have to work with those that did not feel I could do the job because of my sex. This is the second time I have interviewed and the manager suggests I try mother baby post partum of which I have been turned down for in the past for other reasons.

Tell me what you think.

Before y'all get the discrimination bandwagon rolling too far, you might want to research BFOQ. There are valid exceptions to EEOC rules regarding hiring based on gender, and there is case law supporting these exceptions for hiring female only staff in both L&D and post partum units.

Up Vote Up Vote ×

Yes, it is sex discrimination, no question about it.

The cultural question of whether or not you could do your job was 100% irrelevant...OF COURSE you can do your job...some women/husbands/fathers may request that you not be in the room, and you would need to accept that...but it's not a question if you can do your job or not.

Since this is the second time you have interviewed for L&D, I would have an informal discussion with HR. Don't use the word "discrimination"...that will make them think that you are going to see an attorney and hosptial's don't like that (remember who the HR is there to protect...not you, the hospital).

I would bring it up such as, "I am very concerned that because I am a male nurse that my desire to work in L&D is not being taken seriously and I am not being given the same opportunity....I normally wouldn't feel that way...after all, I may or may not be the most qualified, but considering I was asked questions about whether or not I can be an effective nurse in L&D with certain cultures because I am a male, I found to be troubling."

Or something similar...because that is factual, you are merely quoting the manager, and HR will known darn good and well that should have NEVER have been said in an interview.

To me, the only appropriate question concerning gender would be, "How would you respond if a patient would prefer you not be in the room because you are a male nurse."...b/c to me, that is a valid question.

The other is not.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Earle 58......One of these days, the patient's insurance company will then deny payment based on the patient's refusal. It may take some time but I've been a nurse for a long time and have seen insurance companies look for ANY reason not to have to pay a bill.

What would happen today if male patients refused a female nurse/physician/physical therapist, etc? Do you think the hospital would accomodate them? I don't think many hospitals could and I think they would ask some of those patients to leave.

I disagree with this.

That would be reverse discrimination. If you allow a female patient to refuse a male healthcare worker, then why can't males do the same thing?

To me, if I were a male and did not want a female treating me (which you may find in Arabic cultures), I would be FURIOUS if the request wasn't accomodated...unless it was an emergency and there was simply no male available...then that is different.

Hospitals, cannot pick and choose the patients it is going to accomodate based on gender.

Up Vote Up Vote ×

I remember having an elderly male pt who was furious that female nurse (me) will be inserting his Foley catheter. He said he wants a male nurse. Well, nurses, males included, do not grow on trees, there was no male nurse on duty and administration will not pull male nurse out of nowhere. So pt left AMA.

Hospital's accommodations can go only that far. If request is beyond what they may provide, then pt is free to leave.

Up Vote Up Vote ×

i have a different thought about this, i believed its not discrimation but rather because it is a predominantly a female environment......you see females in a working environment always have conflicts, and i have experienced this as well...im a male nurse

Up Vote Up Vote ×

Why do people think males are sexual predators? Did you ever watch "To Catch a Predator"? Not a lot of females getting caught now are there? Am I saying that males can't do L&D effectively? No. But when a women is feeling distressed and vulnerable does it really help to have some strange dude staring at her privates?

I wouldn't mind working in L&D. It's the happy place. But why force my desire to work in a particular area when my very prescence may make the patient uncomfortable. I think we go to far with this "any gender can do anything" idea.

Men don't stop being men when they put on the uniform. They just subvert that part of themselves for the few minutes it takes to provide intimate care. L&D nursing is nothing but intimate care. I for one think men should stay out except in the case when no females are available.

As far as the male OB/GYN argument, I think this is just another case where women got screwed (no pun intended). Women had been delivering babies for thousands of years and now here comes men claiming women are too dumb to go to medical school or deliver babies so that they can get paid six figures for doing what women have been doing for eons for little or no pay.

I think men delivering babies is ludicrous.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in L&D, Surgery, Case Management.

I spent 9 years working in L&D. I can tell you from experience that not only do the patients NOT want a male labor nurse most would not even let a male student in the room. Husbands in general did not want any males in the room. ALSO Even though it may not seem fair NONE of the labor nurses I worked with wanted to have a male in the unit. Male nurses interviewed but were never hired. Sorry, but I do NOT think it is going to change. This is in Texas. On a personal note when I was in labor I would have refused a male in the room. L&D is just not the place for male nurses. :nono:

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in OB.
I spent 9 years working in L&D. I can tell you from experience that not only do the patients NOT want a male labor nurse most would not even let a male student in the room. Husbands in general did not want any males in the room. ALSO Even though it may not seem fair NONE of the labor nurses I worked with wanted to have a male in the unit. Male nurses interviewed but were never hired. Sorry, but I do NOT think it is going to change. This is in Texas. On a personal note when I was in labor I would have refused a male in the room. L&D is just not the place for male nurses. :nono:

Whether or not the labor nurses you work with "want" a male labor nurse on the unit is irrelevant and should never enter into the hiring decision. This is blatant discrimination, not having to do with a patient's comfort with care based on religion, culture or history which would certainly be managed on a case by case basis to insure sensitive care. Think how you would react if the same statement (regarding the staff's opinions) were made citing any other factor than gender: I don't want to work with (fill in the blank with a ethnic group or religion for example).

By the way - not all OB nurses feel this way, even in the south - I've been one for the last 19 years.

Up Vote Up Vote ×

Jeffthenurse weather or not it ever comes to insurance denying payment the situation being described in the hear and now. In the hear and not this nurse is being denied a particular job based on gender.

Insurance companies are not denying based on pt's refusal to accept a particular gender of care giver. As long as that is the case to OP has a discriminatory issue.

As Leslie said the employer may not discriminate but the pt can. They may argue that they are not denying him a job just this particular job. I don't think that is completely just.

Though a civilian court may support the employer because of their own take of the role of a "male" nurse in L+D. Interestingly enough my casual observation is that it is more often the male spouse who is inclined to object to the presence of a non MD male being present than the woman herself.

It serves no useful purpose to argue what might happen with insurance down the road. What we feel the trend is. This is not the same as non compliance of home care patients. Even if insurance tries this it does not mean they will prevail. We need to leave the speculation aside and address the present day issue in present day context.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in L&D, Surgery, Case Management.
Whether or not the labor nurses you work with "want" a male labor nurse on the unit is irrelevant and should never enter into the hiring decision. This is blatant discrimination, not having to do with a patient's comfort with care based on religion, culture or history which would certainly be managed on a case by case basis to insure sensitive care. Think how you would react if the same statement (regarding the staff's opinions) were made citing any other factor than gender: I don't want to work with (fill in the blank with a ethnic group or religion for example).

By the way - not all OB nurses feel this way, even in the south - I've been one for the last 19 years.

Get real.... It may be " blatant discrimination " but that is the reality of the situation. Is it right? NO Will it change in the near future? Probably not. They can always " find " a reason not to hire someone. This may not be a " popular " statement, however it happens. Bottom line: MOST patients and / or husbands do NOT want a male nurse or even a male student. This makes a male in L&D a bad return on investment and a drain on the other staff members. :banghead:

Up Vote Up Vote ×

This thread points out that there is a reason to ask a prospective L&D nurse if they will be able to handle it when concerns about a male nurse comes up.

I don't think the employer is discriminating by asking that question at all.

It is unfortunately something to be considered.

steph

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in OB.

I think you should pursue the discrimination complaint and try to go forward and change some mindsets! Obviously there are cultural situations that would have to be arranged for, but no more than when we have Orthodox Jewish male patients that need all-male care. The majority of the time, I think you would be fine, and I encourage you to pursue the job that you want.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
+ Join the Discussion