Ok I know people are sick of hearing about the MA's calling themselves nurses threads, but I just need to vent for a minute here. Because I am irritated right now. I belong to another online forum (non nursing) that I have been a part of for like 3 years. One of the people I know posted a thread the other day, saying she knew there were a lot of people who work in the medical field, and she was just curious what they do.
2 people, 1 of who I know, both said they are MA's. Then commented that the only real thing separating them from RN's is the pay. Oh and the fact that they are not allowed to push narcotics. One commented that where she works they are even allowed to start IV's under the doctors license, so it really is just the pay that separates her.
I get that people think all nurses are are med pushing poop cleaners. But I would love to see an MA go work in the ICU, or manage 8 patients on a busy Med/Surg floor, or read the strips on a telemetry floor.
The thread is a few days old, and no longer active so I am not going to comment in it. Which is probably good, because I doubt I would have been very nice. OK end vent.
Specializes in Med/Surg, Neuro, ICU, travel RN, Psych.
I do agree with the people who said You don't know what you don't know. I can see from an outside perspective that it looks like we don't do much more than pass meds and clean people up. Same as people think when you are sitting at the desk, or in an office you are not doing anything but sitting there. They don't realize you are doing the pages and pages of charting, or writing multiple notes.
We have been fighting this battle for a long time. The MD's are beginning to see it a bit with the influx of PA's and FNP's. Most of our patients call them doc and most don't correct them. I don't care how many uniform changes we make, large name tags they give us with huge RN stamped across the bottom...if you are a male in scrubs, then you are a doctor, if you are female in scrubs, you are a nurse.
It's possible that we just have a more gender diverse population in nursing school where I live, but I don't ever mistake a male nurse for an MD on the floor. For one thing, they are usually doing more than looking in a chart and rounding with a white coat herd.
It's possible that we just have a more gender diverse population in nursing school where I live, but I don't ever mistake a male nurse for an MD on the floor. For one thing, they are usually doing more than looking in a chart and rounding with a white coat herd.
I meant from a patient and visitor perspective, not other staff.:)
I didn't actually think they could. But who knows. Someone else actually asked them don't MA's just do like blood pressures and check people in? They got a little offended.
They do the vaccinations on my kids in the clinic we go to, so you bet they "give meds"
I will give my own personal experience (so take that for what it is worth!) I am a former MA currently in school to become an RN. I went through a 2 yr program degree program. "They don't know what they don't know" is EXACTLY right in my opinion. I will justify that by saying that I do feel like I received a very good education for an MA and I do feel somewhat insulted by some of the posts that imply that MA's are idiots. The school I attended told us that MA's are basically nurses that can't give meds so I agree that the schools are major culprits in why MA's feel that way.
I had noidea how much I didn't know! I am relatively intelligent and thought I knew enough that I could breeze through nursing school with little effort. I definitely have more knowledge than someone with no medical background, but I am having to work very hard for every "A" I get in school!
I'm embarrassed to post this, but when I was a relatively new CNA working in my hospital(just enough experience to feel confident), when people asked me what I did at work, I would tell them I "basically did everything a nurse does except giving meds." BOY WAS I WRONG! Like I said, I'm embarrassed that I told people that...
I obviously know better now, and completely have the upmost respect for nurses. People just don't get it, and most likely never will unless they get first hand experience.
Unfortunately unless people have had the "hospital experience" (whether as a patient or family member) I feel they will always think of nurses as glorified pill pushers and butt wipers.
In california MAs can give medications. When I was an MA I could give IM injections of narcotics (but not anesthetic like lidocaine) and give immunizations, and TB tests (but I could not read them). I could also draw blood for simple tests (not blood banking), but that was all I could do with a vein. I could not start I.V.s, I could not inject into an IV (although most MAs work in Drs. Offices so I am not sure how many MAs would actually be around a patient with an IV). I could call in refills to the pharmacy, but if there was a change or if it was a new med the doc had to write it out for me to fax or call it in himself.
It bugged me before I became an RN that MAs were comparing themselves to RNs...now that I am an RN and worked my butt off to get here and KNOW how different an RN and an MA are...it TICKS me off that they compare themselves to us:devil: But most of them just have no clue.
but i would love to see an ma go work in the icu, or manage 8 patients on a busy med/surg floor, or read the strips on a telemetry floor.
just for some more insight, as a military medic i did all the above without a license or under a rn/md.
a military medic is also allowed to take the exam for an rma/cma certification.
c. a formal medical services training program of the united states armed forces.
for routes 2a, 2b or 2c, if the applicant graduated within the last four years, proof of work experience is not required. if graduated over four years ago, proof of current work experience is required.
i am in two year rn program and just started my first semester this aug. i find that there is a big difference between the rn program and my military training (10 months, 3 phases including clinicals) and that is learning why you are doing something. in my military training we were taught how to do something well such as inserting an iv. we were taught the basics of why but in nursing school everything is explained as to why you are putting an iv in. i find that if i am able to pass the rma/cma exam then the education i received allows me to speak for cma's. they are basically taught the same way as medics and that is they are a jack of all trades. you shouldn't feel insulted by the ma's comments and although not necessarily true, do hold some validity in the different levels of care out there for unlicensed persons. not having a license allows a ma to do all sorts of things she or he shouldn't do but if that cma causes harm to the patient the md or rn is held accountable.
In a clinic setting, really the only thing that separates an MA or CMA or RMA (whatever title they go by) and an LPN is the pay. I worked as an LPN in a clinic for 4 years before I was an RN, so I worked with CMA's and LPN's alike. I started at 15 dollars an hour and the CMA that got hired at the same time as I started at like...10 an hour. The CMA's I worked with were all pretty level headed and "in their place". In our clinic they could do everything and LPN did except order flu vaccines and TB tests, and that was pretty technical.
There was a little season of time where they were getting into the habit of calling themselves Dr. So and So's "nurse" and I think it was actually one of our Internists who brought this to the nursing manager's attention and we all had a pow wow to gently discuss that only the RN's and LPN's could call themselves a nurse because of the legality. The MA's could call themselves the doc's assistant. Nobody made a stink about it.
And as for the for-profit schools, I already went on a tangent in a different post about how they turn medical assistants into the cutting edge and feed them a lot of exaggerated tales about how grand their job description is (but in fairness I think sometimes RN programs do that too)...actually where I'm from CMA's are kind of getting whittled down in their scope of practice- we have rad-techs who do x-rays, so there goes that, we have lab techs and trained phlebotomists who do lab draws (and in my hospital, except in the ICU, L&D, ER and Burn Center the lab support techs start IV's too, so there goes that one...and at least in the clinic system I worked at, we had Medical Office Assistants do the administrative stuff- they went through an MOA training program...so that got taken away too. I'm sure at smaller independent clinics the MA is a jack of all trades, which is why at a lot of independent clinics they don't hire LPN's anymore.
Unfortunately unless people have had the "hospital experience" (whether as a patient or family member) I feel they will always think of nurses as glorified pill pushers and butt wipers.
The clinic I worked at, the MA's can Pull, and Administer Morphine out of the locked box that everybody has key access to. BUT MA's cannot Pull and Administer Rocephin which is kept in the unlocked cabinet. Exactly part of the reason I left.
not having a license allows a ma to do all sorts of things she or he shouldn't do but if that cma causes harm to the patient the md or rn is held accountable.
an the national nursing organizations along with the state nursing organizations should have strongly
addressed this years ago. if you want to hire unlicensed staff and have them due "nursing" tasks let
the md only take the responsibility.
as nurses we missed the boat. not defining our territory, and at the same time stating nurses need more education.
why should a nurse work hard getting advanced degrees, safely navigating her own practice, yet at
the same time be responsible for staff who are unlicensed and doing functions beyond what they
should be allowed to do. the above quote is right, the nurse may be held responsible if things
I definitely have more knowledge than someone with no medical background, but I am having to work very hard for every "A" I get in school!.thumb.gif.5406a59d44f5c666e8ff3ebac639497a.gif){kind=avatar}
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Simply Complicated
1,100 Posts
I do agree with the people who said You don't know what you don't know. I can see from an outside perspective that it looks like we don't do much more than pass meds and clean people up. Same as people think when you are sitting at the desk, or in an office you are not doing anything but sitting there. They don't realize you are doing the pages and pages of charting, or writing multiple notes.