School's hidden agenda, "NCLEX pass rate: Weed out students who will not pass"

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Feb 5, 2006

Acutally, a person can pass NCLEX, by self studying in my view...When you make nursing school where the school is at threat of being on probation, then the school will look after their own intrests rather than the students..

Welcome to the world of performance standards. My kids spend 2/3rd of their school years learning the state and national performance tests.

After the state tests this month, school may as well be out for the summer.

It doesn't do your instructors any good to teach you nursing if you can't pass the test. So, an important part of their preparation for you is to teach the test.

This is why students get so infuriated about questions that seem to have meaningless degrees of separation in which answer is best. Because you will see it on the NCLEX.

You can make a credible argument, that, by looking out for their best interests in this category, they ARE looking out for your best interests, or, to a greater degree, the public's best interest.

~faith,

Timothy.

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Feb 5, 2006

Actually, a lot of peopel can pass NCLEX if they studied the right books like ATI books which I have.It is much more condensed and has a lot of "at the point" information..

I don't know about 'a lot', but is it possible for someone to self-study and pass NCLEX. I'm sure it is. You seem to be implying that school really isn't necessary, or a waste of time (I could do this myself).

Would I want that book smart but reality challenged nurse at my family member's bedside? Not a chance.

School doesn't teach you how to be a nurse, experience does. But school arms you with the tools to capitalize on that experience. And there is much more to that than simply passing NCLEX. I agree that teaching the test is a large amount of your class time. But your program is much more than class time. But even so, there is a difference between the book and reality. Your teachers theoretically know that difference and can point and emphasize that difference to you.

As with most things, it's not just a matter of what's in the book/study guide, but what is more important vs. less important. Experience is that teacher, and while you are in school, that experience is being passed to you in lecture.

~faith,

Timothy.

oneLoneNurse · Feb 5, 2006

The reason why nursing school is tuff because the directors want the students to pass NCLEX..They make the course work hard so that they will know only bright students will pass NCLEX...If the school gets under a 75% pass rate on NCLEX, the school will be put on probation...
I over heard this while the directer was talking to an instructor..

and if you were a member of the faculty at your nursing school how would you change the curriculum ? Would you be interested at all in keeping your accreditation or just pass anyone ?

UM Review RN, ASN, RN · Feb 5, 2006

Acutally, a person can pass NCLEX, by self studying in my view...When you make nursing school where the school is at threat of being on probation, then the school will look after their own intrests rather than the students..

No, the school is looking after the interests of the nursing student's future patients.

I realize that you're in school and your mindset is geared to getting that passing grade no matter what, but as others have mentioned, successful nursing is not about grades, nor is it about what schools expect or even how many clinical days you have to make up--it's about keeping your patients alive.

That's the Big Picture. Hard to keep in mind when you see a classmate get reamed over hair that's 1/4" too long over their collar, but there you have it.

You want to be a successful nurse, you jump through the hoops--or you take the Gen Ed Major and do something different with your life. Those nursing school spots are hard to come by and there are people begging to get in and do the work.

Rhee · Feb 5, 2006

The reason why nursing school is tuff because the directors want the students to pass NCLEX..They make the course work hard so that they will know only bright students will pass NCLEX...If the school gets under a 75% pass rate on NCLEX, the school will be put on probation...
I over heard this while the directer was talking to an instructor..

Nursing school is tough because we will be responsible for people's lives. And you can't be a nurse if you don't pass the NCLEX anyway, so how would making school any easier help? It's hard, there's no way around it.

I do think that it would be possible to pass the NCLEX by self-study, but I don't think that anyone who did that would have the depth of knowledge or "why" behind the anwers to the questions.

My med-surg I class was basically self study. The instructor didn't lecture, we had no handouts, our classroom time was spent doing group projects (which isn't a necessarily a bad thing, but in this case it was the blind leading the blind). Most people didn't study to comprehend the material because it's kind of hard to teach med-surg to yourself, but just studied to know the answers to test questions. I think I could have gotten much more out of the class if I'd learned to understand concepts rather than just answer questions correctly. I think that's what nursing school is supposed to teach.

mom2michael, MSN, RN, NP · Feb 5, 2006

My program is largely self taught and peer to peer taught. Is that a bad thing? No, because it teaches us to become responsible for our own learning from day 1. When we are done in 2 years and we are RN's is someone going to be holding our hand and teaching us what we need to know or are we going to have learn to take inititive and learn it ourselves. Do I like this, not really because it's frustrating to not know where to start and where to end. But this method has proven to give my program a 96-98% pass rate pretty much for the last 5 years.....

As far as the pass rate, yes, it is about the pass rate because they can loose their ability to even keep the program open. That sucks for them and sucks for you really. We are in the process of suffering the wrath of the previous class because as of last week, pass rate was 86% so far out of 15 students who have taken the NCLEX, which is above what is required, but not high enough for them. So you betcha, our tests are much harder now and the work is demanding, but really, I pretty sure when I'm sitting there getting ready to take my NCLEX in a year I'm going to appreciate the fact they made us work our butts off this year.

As far as missing points in class because one is late or not there to get the material - it may not always be fair but again it's teaching responsiblity for your actions whether those be good or bad. When it's all said and done and you once again are that RN, are you going to miss 3 days of orientation? Doubt it because you'll be behind in your learning and at a disadvantage. Just like nursing school.

As far as the competitive student in your class who gave you the wrong answers, guess what, in the real world you are going to be faced with those same types of people. People, who just because they are mean, are going to place challenges in your way and make you fail because it's fun to watch people fail. It's a fact of life. This exists not only in nursing but in every single career I've ever had.

Do I like nursingschool, not at all. But it is what it is. Instead of fighting the system I channel my efforts on learning the material and understanding what I need to know to be a safe nurse.

AtlantaRN, RN · Feb 5, 2006

"no one ever died because they diagramed a sentance incorrectly"

too funny...

My son flunked out of nursing school his first semester, and it is correct it's not like the general nursing core classes (those my son found extremely easy)... In my son's case, he wasn't prepared for the challenge...He is young

(20) and he will find a profession that suits him...unfortunately it's not nursing.

linda

vegetarian_goddess · Feb 5, 2006

... the school is looking after the interests of the nursing student's future patients.

I completely agree with Angie!

DaFreak71 · Feb 5, 2006

The reason why nursing school is tuff because the directors want the students to pass NCLEX..They make the course work hard so that they will know only bright students will pass NCLEX...If the school gets under a 75% pass rate on NCLEX, the school will be put on probation...
I over heard this while the directer was talking to an instructor..

It's not a hidden agenda. Any school you go to will tell you that if they don't think you can pass the NCLEX, you don't graduate. It's not a conspiracy, it's a legitimate method of not graduating nurses who don't know what they are doing. It's a public service and the right thing to do.

Getting use to nursing school is hard. Ask me how I know, LOL. Don't get too wound up about one class, just do your very best and if you fall behind, make plans to get caught up. Nothing you've said in your posts about how your school operates is out of the ordinary. Nobody is out to get you or to make you fail. It's just that they need to be sure that you can pass. Otherwise you could very well hurt someone. Nobody wants that.

Best wishes,

Adri

HeartsOpenWide, RN · Feb 5, 2006

The reason why nursing school is tuff because the directors want the students to pass NCLEX..They make the course work hard so that they will know only bright students will pass NCLEX...If the school gets under a 75% pass rate on NCLEX, the school will be put on probation...
I over heard this while the directer was talking to an instructor..

And what is wrong with this? If your not "bright enough" to pass the NCLEX, you should not be in a nursing program...with out a license you can not work...and in my opinion these "un-bright" students are wasting valuable seats. I know at my school you have to take a teas test, which supposedly gives the school a prediction if you are able to take test that is structured like the NCLEX exam. If all schools did this and looked at a persons GPA along with their science grades when picking their students, maybe they would not have to make the classes "extra hard". They also need to have good teachers....just because your an expert in a subject does not mean you have to ability to teach it....I know from experience that the teacher can really make a difference!

Future_Nurse_Natalie · Feb 5, 2006

I just had this convo with a couple of students I tutor. They were accusing the faculty of "weeding out", when actually, the students are weeding themselves out by not studying like they should. If you are not dedicated, you will not succeed. Nursing is a field where the best and the brightest should be the ONLY ones to succeed. I don't know about you but I would not want a nurse working on me that skated through school! I don't think anyone could self-study their way into passing the NCLEX. I believe this b/c nursing school changes your way of thinking. Everyone who starts it is used to knowledge based questions rather than application. Anyone could be book smart but not everyone knows how to answer questions based on potential situations. I have the ATI books myself and honestly, you cannot say that you could have passed the NCLEX with those alone. I know NS can be hard, believe me...I know. But my question is, why let one bad day ruin it? And since you are in your last semester, why even care about what the plans are with your school? You are almost done and have made it this far. Besides, you are making an accusation based on hearsay. Who knows without solid proof that what you heard is even true?

karmyk · Feb 5, 2006

It makes sense. In a way, the graduates of a school's nursing program represent and reflect the quality of the program itself. Having a low NCLEX pass rate would make the school look bad, not only in the eyes of other academic programs and potential students, but also in the eyes of potential employers for its graduates...