School Retention Rates

aegirl · Jan 10, 2005

:uhoh21: I just did a quick evaluation of my schools retention rate and I found that we lost 12% of our class and this is only the beginning of our second semester. Is this normal for a BSN program? I realize that the program only gets harder from here and I am becoming VERY anxious. If none of you has any words of consolation to offer I am afraid I'll have to resort to assuming the fetal position in the corner over there. (Kidding, but just a little)
Graceful

You have to remember that everyone has a different reason for dropping out. It might be that they just can't handle the workload or found out that nursing isn't for them or it could be for personal reasons, etc. Just don't focus on the people that are dropping out, focus on yourself and what you want. Just keep doing what you're doing and i'm sure you'll do great! :)

CarVsTree · Jan 10, 2005

That sounds about right. We started out with 35 in the E/W program and we lost 4 the first semester.

First half of second semester, we gained 3 (LPN's) and lost about 5-6. We currently have 31 and that was with one addition for third semester.

Most people that we lost first semester, realized nursing wasn't for them. The ones we lost second semester washed. Not because the material was so difficult but mostly, because of not applying themselves. Some people work genuinely very hard ans still don't make it, but that is just 'cause nursing is not for them. Its not for everyone.

Don't be afraid, you'll do great!!!! The fact that you're here at allnurses.com means you live, eat, and breathe nursing.

Best of luck!

jenrninmi, MSN, RN · Jan 10, 2005

Hi there,

I don't know how common it is. We have 70 students still in my class. Started at 64 - a few people had to take a semester over, me included. We have a very high retention rate.

HappyNurse2005, RN · Jan 11, 2005

we started with 70 to 80 (dont remember exact number). lost a lot in first semester, 18 or so in 2nd semester, gained some LPN transfers, lost more in third semester. now at start of 4th semester, we have 45. only 36 of those, me included, are from that original 70-80. our retention rate blows. but we have a 98-100% nclex pass rate.

abundantjoy07, RN · Jan 11, 2005

How interesting that you were able to find out the rentention rate of your school. At our school people are very tight lipped about that. I think it's out of respect and an understanding that school is tough. Just looking around my class I only noticed 2 students who weren't around. Of course I'm sure I'm overlooking a person or two. It seems that the majority of us are still hanging around!

actioncat · Jan 11, 2005

I'm not sure retention rates necessarily reflect how tough the program is. I know the school that I attended did the weeding out prior to entry. The requirements for entry were pretty tough. Many students did not get in on their first try and had to apply the next year. Consequently, the retention rates were excellent.

I don't think our NCLEX passage rate is outstanding-- it is good, but nothing spectacular. Still, when the woman from the BON came during the accreditation review she did not seem concerned with that. She did tell us that our school was respected everywhere, she saw the GPAs of the accepted students and they were very high, and we could hold up our heads high graduating from this school, blah, blah, blah.... It did not seem like 100 percent passage on NCLEX was what they considered a leading indicator of quality in a program. I would think that retention would be important, because if you are continually losing many students from a program that is a waste of education (re:tax) dollars.

Tilleycs · Jan 11, 2005

You have to remember that everyone has a different reason for dropping out. It might be that they just can't handle the workload or found out that nursing isn't for them or it could be for personal reasons, etc.

My thoughts exactly. I originally went to college for engineering. At orientation (before classes even started), they said, "Look to your right and to your left; one of you will graduate as an engineer". This was true, but not for the reasons they were trying to portray (they were trying to flaunt how "tough" it is in engineering and how "elite" a group it is). A lot of people get out because it's just not "them". When I got out of engineering, it was because I finally realized and admitted that I'm not an engineer and didn't want to spend the rest of my life trying to be something I wasn't, not because I couldn't "hack" it (I made good grades, I was just had no interest in the material).

You're either "wired" a certain way, or you're not. Better to find out early and do something about it.

Just don't focus on the people that are dropping out, focus on yourself and what you want. Just keep doing what you're doing and i'm sure you'll do great! :)

Good advice. I agree! :)

llg, PhD, RN · Jan 11, 2005

I'm not sure retention rates necessarily reflect how tough the program is. .

Exactly. There are 2 competing philosophies related to this.

On one side is the belief that "everyone deserves a chance." Schools that follow this philosophy to the extreme accept everyone who meets a certain basic criteria. This often creates long waiting lists ... but eventually, everyone who meets a certain minimum standard is given a chance to succeed. This philosophy is more common for tax-supported schools (i.e. state schools and community colleges.) Because many of the people accepted are really not well-prepared for the high level of performance required and/or long hours of study required, many people either drop out of flunk out. Fortunately, the tuition tends to be relatively low in these programs and students find out quickly if they are well-suited for the program.

At the other extreme are people (schools) that will not admit a student unless that student has demonstrated a high probability of success. Applicants who don't meet that higher standard prior to entry into the program are not admitted not put on a waiting list. They are told that they were not selected for admission. Such programs then focus less on weeding the weaker students out and more on helping them succeed. Such a philosophy is more likely to be found in a private school with higher tuition.

Of course there are many programs that fall somewhere in-between the 2 extremes described above.

So ... when you look at attrition rates ... you really need to dig deeper into why people left, the school's admissions practices, etc.

llg

kahumai, RN · Jan 12, 2005

My class started with about 48 students, and now that we're in our 4th semester we're down to about 30, including people joining from being held back. I also heard that the semester behind us started out with 72 students and are down to 12. How's that for "retention"???? At least our NCLEX passing rate is 100%! :chuckle

actioncat · Jan 12, 2005

Exactly. There are 2 competing philosophies related to this.
On one side is the belief that "everyone deserves a chance." Schools that follow this philosophy to the extreme accept everyone who meets a certain basic criteria. This often creates long waiting lists ... but eventually, everyone who meets a certain minimum standard is given a chance to succeed. This philosophy is more common for tax-supported schools (i.e. state schools and community colleges.) Because many of the people accepted are really not well-prepared for the high level of performance required and/or long hours of study required, many people either drop out of flunk out. Fortunately, the tuition tends to be relatively low in these programs and students find out quickly if they are well-suited for the program.
At the other extreme are people (schools) that will not admit a student unless that student has demonstrated a high probability of success. Applicants who don't meet that higher standard prior to entry into the program are not admitted not put on a waiting list. They are told that they were not selected for admission. Such programs then focus less on weeding the weaker students out and more on helping them succeed. Such a philosophy is more likely to be found in a private school with higher tuition.
llg

Actually, I believe you are mistaken about private v. public colleges. I went to the large state university and my program was very selective-- less than half that applied got in. The two local private BSN programs did not turn down students as long as they could pay for the program. I believe in recent years, with applications increasing they have started to turn down a few applicants, but not at nearly the rate of the public program that I attended. I know students who attempted to get into my program twice gave up, sucked up the tuition and went to the private schools.

I am sure the idea of being non selective would come as a surprise to those going to UCLA, U of Washington, UMich, etc.

In the end, competent and less competent nurses come out of either program. The private programs just cost more.

llg, PhD, RN · Jan 12, 2005

Actually, I believe you are mistaken about private v. public colleges. .

I am sorry that I offended you. Obviously, there are some exceptionally good and selective public universities ... and some bad non-selective private ones. I was speaking in broad generalities, trying to illustrate the 2 extremes of philosophy that are used to determine admissions practices. I didn't mean for it to be taken as a statement on the quality of any given school or on the specific policy of any particular school. My whole point was that you could NOT use such policies (or their resulting attrition rate) as an indicator of the quality of the school itself.

If you read my post carefully, you will see that I did not say that one extreme or the other is ONLY found at one type of institution or the other ... or even that the extremes were common. Most schools actually fall somewhere in between.

llg