Would you pray with a student?

[smudges.blips]

I have a 5th grade student who came to me last week that I ended up making a child abuse report on. Today, she came to me and informed me that her "safe" caregiver has been removed from the house and is currently hospitalized (unrelated) and is possibly in a coma.

She has mentioned her faith a number of times to me and what a comfort it is. I am also a Christian. I have told her that I am praying for her and for her situation, but believe that encouraging her spiritually as well as taking some private time to pray with her at school would be of help to her physically, spiritually, and emotionally. She has been missing quite a bit of class time due to her emotional state.

I know that this is not legal. But for my Christian nurses: Where does our requirement to follow worldly laws end and our commitment to our patient and to God begin? Would you or do you pray with your students if requested or encourage them spiritually when necessary?

[MrNurse(x2), ADN]

Are you going to be present when I pray to bodhisatva?

Sure

Are you going to read Zen stories with me if I ask you?

Not that I know anything about it, but I am ready to learn

When I go to a shrine for the Buddha blessing, are you going with me if I ask you?

No, I don't ask my students to go to church with me

When I die, are you going to my funeral in a Buddhist setting?

I don't do patient funerals at my SNF setting, but I would find it educational. Now the part that you won't like, my mourning for non-Christians is much more depressing. Your eternity is sealed. I believe in this as much as I believe in the gravity that holds me to this planet. Your offense will do nothing to change that. I won't be praying for you at your funeral, it will be too late, though I believe that you would finally welcome it.

Are you finally satisfied so we can get back to what this thread is really about?

[khminh]

You said that

Not that I know anything about it, but I am ready to learn

Then you say that

Now the part that you won't like, my mourning for non-Christians is much more depressing. Your eternity is sealed. I believe in this as much as I believe in the gravity that holds me to this planet. Your offense will do nothing to change that. I won't be praying for you at your funeral, it will be too late, though I believe that you would finally welcome it.

A simple yes or no will suffice, and I won't bother you with replying. You go with this explanation for some reason I don't know. You want to continue this theological battle. Then I will honor your wish.

You admit that you don't know anything about Zen stories, which have deep spiritual meaning behind them. You don't know what Buddhism is about. You don't know what Buddhists believe about afterlife.

And yet you know for sure that what will happen to me after I die. You project your sentiment on me. Thank you very much for showing that you are dishonest just like the rest of fundamentalist Christians in the South, in the Midwest, and in allnurses.

Even when I was the most serious practitioner of Buddhism, I never projected my sentiment on anyone who didn't share my religion. I only knew what would happen to me. What would happen to non Buddhists? I don't know.

Without Jesus, you got lost. That's your belief. Somehow it also applies to me like gravity. Since when a mystical subjective experience is on the same ground as scientific facts?

According to some branches of Buddhism, you would suffer for endless reincarnation if you don't accept what the Buddha teaches about 4 noble truths. It is worse since reincarnation makes you forget about your previous lives. It may cause you to commit more bad karma without even knowing it. Then eventually you will descend to 18 levels of hell. It's not pretty. There are hot Naraka and cold Naraka. Neither place is not nice. Your sentence is not eternal, but it may last 10¹⁸ years.

If those beliefs are true, even your Jesus won't be able to save you. It's in your best interest to accept 4 noble truths and start practicing dharma to save yourself. Relying on 3 Buddhist gems is the best way to help yourself. No matter how much good karma you accumulate, it will run out eventually. Even when you ascend to heavens, eventually you will lose your good karma, and you will descend to the worst level of Naraka your soul can endure. ONLY THE TRUTH FROM THE BUDDHA CAN HELP YOU.

How do you feel, MrNurse? Do you want me to say these things to your family if I am their nurse? I really care about their life after this life. I really care about where their souls are going to be. You can get me lose my license from BON, but I will have to say what I need in order to save their souls from cosmic justice.

I no longer believe in this. Some Buddhists in my family do. I don't argue with them. However, even they don't believe that those consequences apply to non Buddhists. They nail those things on me because I used to believe in that horrific view. Even my family cannot differentiate what is a subjective experience and what is reality.

At least, I'm relieved that they are not like Christians, who believe that somehow the whole world revolve around their born-again experience and dismiss other religions.

If you cannot keep those views to yourself and spread them uninvited to patients, don't be surprised that other religious people will jump on your loved ones in the same manners. Just because this country is predominantly Christians doesn't mean they will be safe from people who have ardent religious beliefs like you.

You will suffer someone's hell. Muslim hell, from what I read in the Koran, is just as bad as Christian hell. Your skin will be peeled off until you lose your conscence. Then Allah will resurrect your soul so that he can peel your skin again with fire.

It is a disgrace to such a noble profession like nursing when some people project their subjective bigoted view about afterlife on vulnerably ill people. It's truly despicable.

Even my most devout Christian colleagues never capture non Christians under their belief.

Now I truly understand why a Bible belt is a Bible belt. It's really bizarre to have a neighbor, a colleague, a caregiver, a teacher whose mind is only filled with brim stones towards people who have a different spiritual path.

No, I don't ask my students to go to church with me

English is not my first language, but is it really so bad that you don't understand my question? I ask if I am your patient and I want you to go to a shrine for the Buddha blessing with me, are you going to do it?

If you are my patient and you want me to go to church with you, will I go with you? My answer is yes. For your well-being, I am willing to go outside my comfort zone. Will you do the same for me?

Are you finally satisfied so we can get back to what this thread is really about?

I never meant to deviate this thread. I also gave the answer to the similar scenario in my posts. I would definitely pray with patients if they want me to, and I will encourage them to practice the path that makes them feel serene about themselves.

I have seen cancer patients who pass away with a smile, and they were not Christians. A peaceful expression reflected on their face when they released their final breath. I feel like it is a good ending for humans in general. I have also seen Christians patients who died in horror despite how devout they were.

I would never trade a peaceful ending of a human life for an ambiguous afterlife that requires fear in an unproven deity. I have too much respect for human worth to espouse such belief.

[khminh]

If you go back and re-read the OP, and to who the question was being asked. You can ask yourself, if it was to you or not. Definitely, never intended to lead to this long and drawn out debate. All your long posts have not changed my beliefs on Christianity and how I will continue to conduct myself. I hope the OP isn't afraid to post on here again in the future. We are pretty much friends and hang out here to help each other through the trenches of our days in school nursing. We do our best to stay on topic.

My posts have nothing to do with you. They respond to MrNurse, Brenda F. Johnson, and OldDude.

What you believe in about Christianity and how you conduct yourself is none of my business. If you act like a respectful civilian before you act like a nurse, we are all good. The moment you spread your theology on me like MrNurse, you are fair game.

This is OP's thread. I have yet responded to her. She can report my posts if they are irrelevant to her topic.

[khminh]

Since this is so way off topic. Why don't you start your own thread? But, the short answer for me is, most likely I would not do any of those things, because I.AM.CLUELESS. about any of those questions that you asked. Would I do my best to find someone who share their beliefs to help them? Yes, in a heartbeat. But, I don't know enough about the beliefs that you mentioned to be helpful. Like it or not, that is the honest truth.

I could have done that, but then someone will think that I seek attention.

I gave that scenario not because I want to coerce a nurse to practice my religion with me. I simply point out bias OP shows in her question. Would she encourage her student to continue practicing the faith she felt comfortable in or would she encourage her student to switch to Christianity?

I say this because I experienced this myself with a Christian classmate. He used my circumstance as a soapbox to proselytize me. He talked with a gentle manner. What I despised was his intent.

With a few other incidents, I develop a sense of detection whenever Christians ask other people questions about faith. It's almost never about helping other people's spirituality. It's almost always about seeking reinforcement for Christianity and enticing other people into it.

You grew up in this society as a Christian. You may not understand.

I grew up in Vietnam, where Christianity was not the dominant force. Nevertheless, I lived in a Catholic neighborhood for years before my family immigrated to the States. I had been respected for all those years until I encountered Christians in this country. Fortunately, they don't appear to me every day, but it's enough to make me annoyed by their constant condescending "I'll pray for you" mentality.

I came to allnurses for learning, but I also need to voice my opinion where privileged class of people think that they can use a plurality platform to preach whenever they want. Christians are such class.

I say what I need to say. I don't expect you to understand. With exception of my two colleagues, none of the Christians I have encountered understand or accept me. Although atheists believes that my belief is just as silly as other religious people, at least they accept me (I have yet met an atheist who tolerates me). The media is really unfair to them. Allnurses too. That's why I am aggressive towards exclusionary views from religious people.

[OyWithThePoodles, RN]

Oy with the poodles, already...

[elkpark]

... but then someone will think that I seek attention.

What other possible description is there for what you're doing? You're seeking out every thread on this site that mentions religion in order to repeatedly flog your negative stereotypes about Christians and rant about how much you despise Christians. What on earth is that but "seek(ing) attention"? We all get your point. You hate Christians, because you feel you've have some bad experiences (how many? How bad were they, actually?) and you disagree with the tenets of their religion. Guess what? Lots of people disagree with the tenets of lots of religions, but we don't make a career out of bashing the members of those religions for their beliefs. Or, even, their actions in practicing their faith. You're living in a diverse society in a country that has the principle of freedom of religion written into the constitution.

[OyWithThePoodles, RN]

Plain and simple the question was "would you pray with a student", not "would you shove your religion down a students throat".

As I said, if the student initiated I would. That said, if the student asked me to listen while they pray, I would bow my head and listen regardless of the religion. If they asked me to verbalize the prayer and I knew they were of the same religion as me I would likely begin with "Lord" or "Father". If I was unsure of the religion I might do something that just starts with "Please comfort Johnny, give him peace and comfort in this time..."

For those who aren't of the same religion as me, I am sorry if other Christians have made you feel inferior or like we "hate" you for your religion or lack thereof.

I can assure you that we aren't all like that.

This did not need to become a debate about religion. If the student asks you to pray and you are atheist, simply asking them to pray and telling them you'll listen shows compassion.

[NutmeggeRN, BSN]

This did not need to become a debate about religion. If the student asks you to pray and you are atheist, simply asking them to pray and telling them you'll listen shows compassion.

This. Plain and simple. We should never, ever try to push or encourage any type of religion. On anyone, especially a student.

However, we should accept the child for who they are, provide a safe space for them, acknowledge their need and if asked, support them. Either out loud if you are comfortable, or tell them you will listen with respectful silence.

[nehneh14]

Christianity is the only faith that states one way or Hell and is based in love. These two things mean someone with a nurses' heart wants to cure the whole person. No other religion honestly cares about people in the same desperation. Sorry you may get offended, but just like you feel the need to educate your patient who does not vaccinate or continues to smoke with COPD, we feel the same desperation for their lives. I state this not to convert you, I state this so you may understand.

This: "only faith that states one way or Hell and is based in love. These two things mean someone with a nurses' heart wants to cure the whole person. No other religion honestly cares about people in the same desperation." is so disingenuous, and illustrates a perfect example of why religion needs to be kept out of public spaces, most definitely including schools. Keep this kind of bunk in church where it belongs. Your comment isn't fact based and demonstrates ignorance about religions other than Christianity.

[smudges.blips]

So for those of you still following, my student (you know, the one who voluntarily told me she was a Christian before I said anything) is doing much better. She came to my office to tell me she was baptized last week! I let her know that she is welcome to come down anytime she needs to talk or needs a private time to pray. Loved the suggestions about allowing her to lead and simply being with her through this.

On a side note, I work at a school with a large Muslim population and we do speak about religion whenever they bring it up. I am always a listening ear and try to be encouraging during Ramadan when there are headaches and stomachaches galore, when students have expressed their fear with reaching the age of accountability I listen, and 2 yrs ago when a Muslim student came to me saying he felt like demons were targeting him and he was fearful I found on of our Muslim Paras to pray the Quran with him (with his permission of course).

My job as a nurse is to provide the best whole person care possible; as a Christian I do not aim to convert anyone, but if God puts the opportunity in front of me I obey- and I pray. I pray for all of them because I love them no matter their culture or religion.

[cooties_are_real]

Thank you for the update.

[Cattz, ADN]

Awesome Thank you Jesus! So glad your student was baptized and feels like she can talk to you. So glad for your update.