I have a 5th grade student who came to me last week that I ended up making a child abuse report on. Today, she came to me and informed me that her "safe" caregiver has been removed from the house and is currently hospitalized (unrelated) and is possibly in a coma.
She has mentioned her faith a number of times to me and what a comfort it is. I am also a Christian. I have told her that I am praying for her and for her situation, but believe that encouraging her spiritually as well as taking some private time to pray with her at school would be of help to her physically, spiritually, and emotionally. She has been missing quite a bit of class time due to her emotional state.
I know that this is not legal. But for my Christian nurses: Where does our requirement to follow worldly laws end and our commitment to our patient and to God begin? Would you or do you pray with your students if requested or encourage them spiritually when necessary?
Your posts carry a bias against Christians. I hope that bias is not extended to your patients if they happen to reveal they are Christian. People can feel unease and disdain, even when you try to disguise it. Especially children. And this is a school nurses board, so all of our patients are children.
As I mentioned up thread - freedom of religion means I respect a child's need for a safe space to pray. I would not pray out loud with a student, but I would sit in silence with a student if they asked me to for support. I also like learning about religions and cultures, so if student shares their beliefs and how their religion works with me I would kindly listen.
Of course I have bias against Christianity. What do you expect me to say? "Thank you for thinking that I deserve to burn over and over for not believing in Jesus"? Giving me a carrot and threatening me with a stick only make me resent Christians more and more. Their tactic is not different from French army that colonized my country before. They captured rebellious people, offered them money and power, and threatened them with various torturous tools if they refuse to surrender themselves.
Christianity is exactly like that. The only difference is that Christians appeal to supernatural realm. Nursing is a noble profession that cares about people with full compassion and acceptance. Do you really think that I, as a patient, should smile when a nurse whispers in my ears that I would be rotten in a lake of burning fire because I don't worship her deity? What makes her different from Hitler followers?
Like I explained earlier, I will be upfront with patients that I don't believe in Jesus. However, if they need my presence when they pray, if they want me to read the Bible with them, if they wish me to attend their funeral service, would I do it? Absolutely.
Humanity trumps every ideology. I have strong religious conviction. However, if what I believe is against humanity, I will work my butt off to correct it. Human worth and dignity is so sacred to me, and I won't shut up when anyone trashes it using religious excuses. I have immigrated in this country for 15 years. So far, most Americans are wonderful people and every accepting. The only people who make our awesome country a mess for anyone else but themselves are Christians.
Do you see what that Christian says to me?
No other religion honestly cares about people in the same desperation
In other words, she cannot accept the fact that Christianity works for some and doesn't work for others. Her faith is so true that she has to get me into her club with any means necessary.
I never mind telling people that contemplation on the Buddha teaching helps me achieve inner peace. I also don't mind telling them that practicing Stoicism is a good way to obtain tranquility. Nevertheless, I will have to acknowledge with them that my philosophical approach to life may not help them, and I am more than happy to help them find path that suits them. I will respect patients when they breath until they die and when they are alert until they become senile. There will be absolutely not manipulation on my end in any shape or form.
If they want to become Buddhists or stoics, great.
If they want to become something else, wonderful.
This life is the only I am sure that exists. Afterlife is not something I can control or have knowledge of. Hence, I will not impose fear on patients in the name of love. That is insidious.
I hope that bias is not extended to your patients if they happen to reveal they are Christian. People can feel unease and disdain, even when you try to disguise it. Especially children. And this is a school nurses board, so all of our patients are children.
If you care to read what I said to OldDude, you can see that I will not lie to people that I don't believe in Yahweh if they reveal to me that they are Christians. I'm happy to help them out of my comfort zone: staying with them during their prayers, reading the Bible with them, attending their funeral if they cannot make it, or even going to church with them if that is not a violation of boundary. Their well being, physically and emotionally, matters to me more than a religious ideology.
Do you think that Christians like OldDude and MrNurse are willing to do that for me? Will they practice meditation with me? Will they go to a Buddhist temple with me? Will they attend my funeral that may be full of chanting?
I will treat children like I treat adults. Just because they are underage doesn't mean I don't acknowledge their intellectual autonomy. I will do to them exactly what I do to an adult: being honest with them about who I am and going out of my comfort zone if possible to help their well-being.
I wasn't born American. I don't do political correctness, but I choose words carefully with certain people because I want to protect their feelings. That is the value I inherit from my parents and culture.
Apparently, according to MrNurse, my value is inferior to his Christianity because I'm not desperate enough to be concerned about people's whole being. I don't have the heart of a healthcare professional, so I only worry about people's physical and emotional well-being. I dismiss their soul's well-being.
Well, if that's what he believes, I am guilty. That is who I am. I'm a Buddhist. What I learn from my religion is to help people obtain their happiness on earth in this life. I cannot control people's afterlife since I don't know what afterlife is like or if it's even there. It is a mystery, and I will treat it such. But what do I know? I am just a pathetic human who is under Satan's control, thereby inheriting some original sin from some ancestors that I absolutely don't believe in, so my human effort to bring some happiness to people is nonsensical until it is approved by OldDude and MrNurse's beloved Jesus.
If you see the implication in their posts, you will understand why I have bias against Christians who believe like they do. My Christian colleagues are serious believers, but they are not at all like the Christians in this board.
Fortunately, my uncle brought my family to California, where tyrant sympathizers like these Christians are not the dominant force. I'm relieved that some day when my parents go to a nursing home, there is a high chance that they wouldn't have to deal with such people. I cannot imagine what will happen to them if they live in the Midwest or the South. I can battle with Christian nurses since I read the Bible. My parents don't; they just practice their religion. They won't last long in a nursing home or SNF with nurses like MrNurse who believes that they would get rotten in a lake of fire after their death. I guess he will have a Buddhist monk come and have fun with my parents, but he will not be happy about it since my parents and the monk are under Satan's influence.
Some day when I have children, hopefully they will not be manipulated into Christianity by these Christian nurses. I went through some bullying in high school, so I understand the mind of a child is fragile and easily manipulated. The culture in Vietnam was not exactly supportive of bullied children. America seems better, but it's scary just to imagine that there is a proselytizer in nurse's coat who is waiting to get the child to Yahweh.
If you care to read what I said to OldDude, you can see that I will not lie to people that I don't believe in Yahweh if they reveal to me that they are Christians. I'm happy to help them out of my comfort zone: staying with them during their prayers, reading the Bible with them, attending their funeral if they cannot make it, or even going to church with them if that is not a violation of boundary. Their well being, physically and emotionally, matters to me more than a religious ideology..
You have a lot of feelings on this topic, which I acknowledge are valid, as everyone's feelings are.
However, in this case unless a student specifically asks me my beliefs, I do not share them (and even if I did share them, it would to state what religion I am and move on). My beliefs do not matter here - in this case it is the student's beliefs and feelings that matter. This is the same model I follow when teaching sex education - my values and beliefs have no place there, but I can and will acknowledge student feelings and beliefs.
Specializes in School Nurse. Having conversations with littles..
To quote khminh-] "However, if they need my presence when they pray, if they want me to read the Bible with them, if they wish me to attend their funeral service, would I do it? Absolutely."
Thank you khminh for that quote above- This is the answer the OP was asking for. I hope sincerely you have a good day.
...I know that this is not legal. But for my Christian nurses: Where does our requirement to follow worldly laws end and our commitment to our patient and to God begin? Would you or do you pray with your students if requested or encourage them spiritually when necessary?
If you're not a Christian nurse, why would you possibly think you should shove your unsolicited opinion into this thread?
You have a lot of feelings on this topic, which I acknowledge are valid, as everyone's feelings are.
However, in this case unless a student specifically asks me my beliefs, I do not share them (and even if I did share them, it would to state what religion I am and move on). My beliefs do not matter here - in this case it is the student's beliefs and feelings that matter. This is the same model I follow when teaching sex education - my values and beliefs have no place there, but I can and will acknowledge student feelings and beliefs.
I feel like this thread derailed a bit.
The best value I learn from American society is honesty. I don't go around telling people what I believe in. Unlike Christians, I have no desire to spread any revelation. Doing so assumes that I have the truth and other people are idiots.
Nevertheless, when people confides in me what they believes in and expect me to participate with them in their rituals, I have to be honest with them. It is really a matter of trust. I feel like many people just need a place to vent or talk about their feelings.
When patients ask me to participate with them in a ritual, they hope that I would say yes regardless of my belief. They trust me that much. Hence, I need to be honest with them. If tolerance is a two way street, acceptance is a mutual trust.
Thank you for trying to understand me. Our country will be a better place to live when people have empathy like you.
I responded to Brenda F. Johnson, BSN. She believed that this country was founded on Christianity. Such attitude excluded people outside that religion. Thus I had to say something. Then Mr Old Dude jumped on me, so I have to respond.
What do you expect me to do? Zip my mouth and allow Christians to spread that exclusionary mindset to the rest of American people?
By the way, none of the Christians answer my question if I am their patient.
Are you going to be present when I pray to bodhisatva?
Are you going to read Zen stories with me if I ask you?
When I go to a shrine for the Buddha blessing, are you going with me if I ask you?
When I die, are you going to my funeral in a Buddhist setting?
If I was in the situation that OP was and the Christian student asked me to participate in a Christian ritual, prayers, Bible study, my answer is ABSOLUTELY.
I am willing to do things that are against my spiritual conviction for patient's well being.
Will these nurses do the same for non Christian patients?
Specializes in School Nurse. Having conversations with littles..
If you go back and re-read the OP, and to who the question was being asked. You can ask yourself, if it was to you or not. Definitely, never intended to lead to this long and drawn out debate. All your long posts have not changed my beliefs on Christianity and how I will continue to conduct myself. I hope the OP isn't afraid to post on here again in the future. We are pretty much friends and hang out here to help each other through the trenches of our days in school nursing. We do our best to stay on topic.
Specializes in School Nurse. Having conversations with littles..
I responded to Brenda F. Johnson, BSN. She believed that this country was founded on Christianity. Such attitude excluded people outside that religion. Thus I had to say something. Then Mr Old Dude jumped on me, so I have to respond.
What do you expect me to do? Zip my mouth and allow Christians to spread that exclusionary mindset to the rest of American people?
By the way, none of the Christians answer my question if I am their patient.
Are you going to be present when I pray to bodhisatva?
Are you going to read Zen stories with me if I ask you?
When I go to a shrine for the Buddha blessing, are you going with me if I ask you?
When I die, are you going to my funeral in a Buddhist setting?
If I was in the situation that OP was and the Christian student asked me to participate in a Christian ritual, prayers, Bible study, my answer is ABSOLUTELY.
I am willing to do things that are against my spiritual conviction for patient's well being.
Will these nurses do the same for non Christian patients?
Since this is so way off topic. Why don't you start your own thread? But, the short answer for me is, most likely I would not do any of those things, because I.AM.CLUELESS. about any of those questions that you asked. Would I do my best to find someone who share their beliefs to help them? Yes, in a heartbeat. But, I don't know enough about the beliefs that you mentioned to be helpful. Like it or not, that is the honest truth.
khminh
91 Posts
Of course I have bias against Christianity. What do you expect me to say? "Thank you for thinking that I deserve to burn over and over for not believing in Jesus"? Giving me a carrot and threatening me with a stick only make me resent Christians more and more. Their tactic is not different from French army that colonized my country before. They captured rebellious people, offered them money and power, and threatened them with various torturous tools if they refuse to surrender themselves.
Christianity is exactly like that. The only difference is that Christians appeal to supernatural realm. Nursing is a noble profession that cares about people with full compassion and acceptance. Do you really think that I, as a patient, should smile when a nurse whispers in my ears that I would be rotten in a lake of burning fire because I don't worship her deity? What makes her different from Hitler followers?
Like I explained earlier, I will be upfront with patients that I don't believe in Jesus. However, if they need my presence when they pray, if they want me to read the Bible with them, if they wish me to attend their funeral service, would I do it? Absolutely.
Humanity trumps every ideology. I have strong religious conviction. However, if what I believe is against humanity, I will work my butt off to correct it. Human worth and dignity is so sacred to me, and I won't shut up when anyone trashes it using religious excuses. I have immigrated in this country for 15 years. So far, most Americans are wonderful people and every accepting. The only people who make our awesome country a mess for anyone else but themselves are Christians.
Do you see what that Christian says to me?
In other words, she cannot accept the fact that Christianity works for some and doesn't work for others. Her faith is so true that she has to get me into her club with any means necessary.
I never mind telling people that contemplation on the Buddha teaching helps me achieve inner peace. I also don't mind telling them that practicing Stoicism is a good way to obtain tranquility. Nevertheless, I will have to acknowledge with them that my philosophical approach to life may not help them, and I am more than happy to help them find path that suits them. I will respect patients when they breath until they die and when they are alert until they become senile. There will be absolutely not manipulation on my end in any shape or form.
If they want to become Buddhists or stoics, great.
If they want to become something else, wonderful.
This life is the only I am sure that exists. Afterlife is not something I can control or have knowledge of. Hence, I will not impose fear on patients in the name of love. That is insidious.