Resignation in lieu of drug test? Is random testing the answer?

[klone, MSN, RN]

I have no problem with random drug testing at all, but it should be for cause.

Those are two entirely different things. If it's for cause, then by definition it's not random.

[DeeAngel]

I have no problem with random drug screenings. If one doesn't do drugs then it isn't an issue.

Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”

-Benjamin Franklin-

[DeeAngel]

they use random drug testing in the military. As a reservist, I knew they could come through the door at any time and test. No biggie to me. I had nothing to worry about.

Nursing is not the equivalent of joining the military and basically giving your body over to your employer

[Been there,done that, ASN, RN]

I think you might be over simplifying addiction a bit? In my experience, the vast majority of nurses who divert aren't picking up the addiction from work. They usually end up addicted through legal means - like surgery - first, which is also the trend for the rest of the US. Once a nurse is stealing, it's usually a sign that they are pretty advanced in the addiction process.

Also as someone in her state's program, we don't need any more recreational MJ users which is all the random drug screens seem to catch.

Thinking that post-op pain... IS physical pain.

[Chisca, RN]

they use random drug testing in the military. As a reservist, I knew they could come through the door at any time and test. No biggie to me. I had nothing to worry about.

Yet you were supposed to be defending a constitution that has a 4th amendment that specifically forbids such actions.

[Lunah, MSN, RN]

Yet you were supposed to be defending a constitution that has a 4th amendment that specifically forbids such actions.

Hahahaha. In the military, servicemembers give up most personal freedoms. Service is a privilege that comes with a price. It is not uncommon to be called in at 0500 to pee in a cup under the watchful eyes of an NCO — yes, they watch.

[OCRN3]

This is so interesting, this recently happened to me, I was accused of substance abuse due to a conversation that was overheard by another. The other person said that due to my comment I was probably on something. I laughed it off and never gave it a second thought. Later the boss came at me and wants to know the details of the convo. I explained them, but it bothered me so much I resigned. They did not request a drug test though. Are you absolutely certain a drug test was asked for? I took this as an insult and immediately resigned. I was in the job for about 3 weeks when this occurred.

[Been there,done that, ASN, RN]

I have no problem with random drug screenings. If one doesn't do drugs then it isn't an issue.

If "one" doesn't do drugs", is WHEN it becomes an issue. Submitting to random drug screens.. proves you are chained by the corporate master.

[macawake, MSN]

I have no problem with random drug screenings. If one doesn't do drugs then it isn't an issue.

I don't agree. I'm not willing to sacrifice my civil liberties so easily. I don't carry concealed illegal weapons nor do I store large amounts of explosive materials in my home. If I had done any of those things it could be argued that I could pose a threat to the general public as well as of course being guilty of a criminal act. If the police were allowed to perform random strip searches or randomly search people's residences they would stand a much better chance of catching the people who do pose a threat to the rest of us. Yet, most of us aren't willing to afford them that right. I assume that you wouldn't either, even if you have "nothing to hide"?

I don't see why an employer should have rights that law enforcement doesn't when it comes to figuring out who might be engaging in criminal behavior.

In my opinion an employer should only be allowed to mandate drug testing íf an employee exhibits behavior indicative of narcotics ab/use or theft/diversion. If that happens I believe that the protection of patients take priority and the right for the employer to test under those particular circumstances is an acceptable condition of employment.

[Anonymous865]

I have mixed feelings about random drug testing.

Nurses are not immune to abusing drugs or alcohol. The same % of nurses abuse as the general population. If I remember correctly that is about 12%.

If someone works impaired in some jobs (e.g. general office work) the risk of harm to others is minimal. In other jobs (e.g. nursing, pilot, train engineer, nuclear plant operator, school bus driver, someone with access to classified material, etc.) the risk to others is great. One could argue that by choosing to work in these fields, you accept that you will be subject to greater scrutiny to protect the public.

I too am disturbed by the invasion of privacy. At the same time a business should be able to implement policies to protect the business and their customers/patients. If someone finds the drug policy too onerous, s/he can choose not to work there.

I don't think that random drug testing would deter someone from abusing drugs. At best it might identify someone who is abusing earlier in their illness and get them into treatment earlier.

If a hospital does not actively look for employees with a substance abuse problem, they will find only "the tip of the iceburg," i.e. the people who are obviously impaired at work.

I heard a legal nurse speak about being hired at a local hospital as their compliance specialist. The hospital thought they had a good handle on diversion. They wanted to stay on top of things, so they created a position to oversee their drug diversion program. Their new compliance specialist implemented more reporting and looking at outliers on the report. The facility had about 1000 nurses. The first year of their new program, they found on average 4 nurses a month that were diverting. After that initial housecleaning, they averaged identifying 1-2 nurses a month who were diverting.

So for me - one can justify random drug testing to protect the people you serve. I would rather a facility use good reporting and look at statistical outliers to identify potential problems than do random drug testing.

Even better would be to have sufficient treatment facilities and an environment in which employees would seek treatment when they began to have a problem.

The best would be a way to identify at-risk individuals, so that they never start using a substance that could be abused. (a dream)

[Conqueror+, BSN, RN]

So how is this different from mandatory flu vaccines? Everyone going on about personal freedoms makes me wonder how they feel about being forced by the "corporate master" to inject a foreign substance into their body.

[Marisette, BSN, RN]

1). Make rules that make diversion hard and HIRE ENOUGH STAFF TO MAKE THEM FEASIBLE!

(I worked in one place where all the remains of narcs and empty amps had to be collected in individual lockboxes before being sent to lab for verification. It worked so good that even some of the local staff who "had the problem" said so... and there were no silly sign-offs).

2). Legalize things that are already legal everywhere in civilized world. Yes, I was in Netherlands quite recently, nobody is dying there. I pretty much assure you.

3). Stop penalizing people for single positive probe, for whatever reason it happened.

4). Limit indications for prescribing drugs with high addictive potential!!!

5). Make workes' comp rules the same as they already are everywhere in the civilized world except America The Great. Do you know what will happen with a hospital CEO in the same Netherlands if one of their nurses tear her back moving 600 lbs? He'll pay her to the end of her life, that's what. And she will not be forced back to work tomorrow.

6). Make insurance paying full for OT, PT, aquatics, massage and every other chronic pain treatment modality. Yoga should not be elite entertainment for upper 10% of society.

7). Stop proliferationof the "addictive medicine/rehab" business.

That's it, I guess.

Amen to this. As a nurse with a work related injury, I had to choose between pain relief or work. I chose work and did not take pain medication. However, I recall a close call when I feared that a non narcotic pain medication would show up on a random drug screen. I worked for an employer who had a policy of not allowing any employee with any medical condition return to work after a leave unless they brought a back to work note indicating they were clear to perform ALL the requirements of the job. Yep, no light duty. Light Duty will not get you social security dissability benefits either. If you can lift a cup, you are fit to work food service... The expectation that nurses are sopposed to be superhuman and give up all rights is appalliing.