Relief for retrogression hope???

Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN · Jun 1, 2008

Suzanne, Just wondering, are you for international nurses or against them?
I have not seen any positive posts from you yet. I firmly believe that retrogression is gonna be lifted soon. There is no way US healthcare system can sustain without foreign nurses. (like any other sectors- IT, lans scaping, farming) I am sorry but it's the glass is half full or half empty scenario and you definitely always see it half-empty! Prasamsa

I saw the links you posted, they all state the best way to have enough US nurses is to increase educational programs and have better working conditions for US nurses. Suzanne in my opinion is speaking the truth, I was on vacation this week, and met people who told us many of the foreign IT co workers are being sent to their homelands. Every day I hear on the news, that politicians are getting slammed for supporting more immigration.

Perhaps all new US Nurses should have loan relief by serving unserved areas, it would be a win win situation. More nurses where needed and more educational opportunities for US nurses.

suzanne4, RN · Jun 1, 2008

I do not think that the US needs to open their doors to all that wish to work here, they never have and do not expect them to do so.

Please take the time to read some of my other posts on this very same topic, if I did not like foreign nurses coming here, why in the world would I spend so much time helping them.

Coming to the US is not a right, but is a privilege. Bringing in more foreign trained nurses at any given time has never solved anything and that has been very well proven thru all of the years that I have been a nurse. Training and working in most other countries is very different from the US, so that the new nurse to the US is not able to necessarily jump right in and fill gaps in the schedule but most go thru a longer orientation program than if they had trained here.

I have nothing to do with the supply and demand and there have actually been times when the US did not have an visas for nurses for more than five years and this is when all got the H1-B visa.

Making it easier for an American to attend school should be the priority, not spending the money on importing someone when taxes go up because of people unable to get jobs, etc. First jobs should always go to Americans, same as you would expect in any other country. And you can find things similar to what is going on here in the UK and the rest of the EU. Jobs there are going to go first to the citizens of that country, and then to those from the EU. For those not from the EU, it is much harder to get a visa for there as they are looking at for their own first. And the same that is done in every other country.

I do not set policy for the US, only can go by what I read and I do a considerable amount of it on a daily basis. And because you may be in an area that has a shortage, this is definitely not the case all across the US.

A new nurse coming into the US is usually not one with considerable amount of experience and that is what is needed. We already have many new graduates here that are having issues finding jobs and they are Americans.

So there are two sides to each and every story. Suggest you do some reading on the new grad forums and find out the issues that they have with getting jobs now.

prp009 · Jun 2, 2008

I saw the links you posted, they all state the best way to have enough US nurses is to increase educational programs and have better working conditions for US nurses. Suzanne in my opinion is speaking the truth, I was on vacation this week, and met people who told us many of the foreign IT co workers are being sent to their homelands. Every day I hear on the news, that politicians are getting slammed for supporting more immigration.
Perhaps all new US Nurses should have loan relief by serving unserved areas, it would be a win win situation. More nurses where needed and more educational opportunities for US nurses.

That's a great idea! :wink2:

prp009 · Jun 2, 2008

I do not think that the US needs to open their doors to all that wish to work here, they never have and do not expect them to do so.
Please take the time to read some of my other posts on this very same topic, if I did not like foreign nurses coming here, why in the world would I spend so much time helping them.
Coming to the US is not a right, but is a privilege. Bringing in more foreign trained nurses at any given time has never solved anything and that has been very well proven thru all of the years that I have been a nurse. Training and working in most other countries is very different from the US, so that the new nurse to the US is not able to necessarily jump right in and fill gaps in the schedule but most go thru a longer orientation program than if they had trained here.
I have nothing to do with the supply and demand and there have actually been times when the US did not have an visas for nurses for more than five years and this is when all got the H1-B visa.
Making it easier for an American to attend school should be the priority, not spending the money on importing someone when taxes go up because of people unable to get jobs, etc. First jobs should always go to Americans, same as you would expect in any other country. And you can find things similar to what is going on here in the UK and the rest of the EU. Jobs there are going to go first to the citizens of that country, and then to those from the EU. For those not from the EU, it is much harder to get a visa for there as they are looking at for their own first. And the same that is done in every other country.
I do not set policy for the US, only can go by what I read and I do a considerable amount of it on a daily basis. And because you may be in an area that has a shortage, this is definitely not the case all across the US.
A new nurse coming into the US is usually not one with considerable amount of experience and that is what is needed. We already have many new graduates here that are having issues finding jobs and they are Americans.
So there are two sides to each and every story. Suggest you do some reading on the new grad forums and find out the issues that they have with getting jobs now.

I am not sure why you are spending so much time writing to foreign nurses. Maybe it's your job or hobby. I don't know. But your responses are always along the line of "no there are not any visa" "no we don't need you" "it will take you more than 10 years to get permanent reidency" "we need to produce more American nurses" "maybe you should opt for Australia, Canada or other countries" "don't get your hopes up" "OPT is not going to work" "no hospitals are hiring foreign nurses" "this new bill is very unlikely to be passed"

I know people depend on you for help and I really appreciate what you are doing. You have given poeple good advices when they are heading in totally wrong direction and basically lost in this big country. There is not way too much pessimism and negativity in your reponses. I don't know - but I have not seen any encouraging posts from you. And I just wonder "why?"

letina · Jun 2, 2008

There is not way too much pessimism and negativity in your reponses. I don't know - but I have not seen any encouraging posts from you. And I just wonder "why?"

I'm sure Suzanne will be along to speak for herself, but I think the reason her posts may sound negative is because.......for a long time now, we have been hearing from many foreign nurses who are just looking for a "quick fix" to get to the US. Many are openly trying to bypass retrogression and cut in line, when there are those who have done things in the correct and proper way, and have been waiting years for a green card.

You may think Suzanne's posts are pessimistic and negative, but she is just trying to keep things real and telling it like it is.

I am a foreign nurse myself, and when I was going through the immigration process, I appreciated being told the truth. Sometimes, people only hear what they want to hear.....sometimes, a reality check is needed.

lawrence01 · Jun 2, 2008

Just giving a friendly reminder to everyone new here.

Friendly exchange of opinions and lively debates are welcome but debate only the subject matter and not make it personal.

Hoss · Jun 2, 2008

Suzanne offers a very dispasionate and accurate "reality check" for the foreign trained nurse trying to emigrate to the USA. She has proven extraordinarly accurate in the hard facts and data she presents, especially in the face of a brutal retrogression and very strong anti immigration sentiment (due to the terrible problem of 10million plus ILLEGAL immigrants in the USA).

I have the sense that Suzanne is especially tuned into to a group of her very favorite Nurses, Filipinos, and she is more often than not VERY HARD on the SCAM ARTISTS who rip the Filipino Nurses Off with bogus promises of easy immigration, quick and dirty tricks to faster immigration, and worse, the promise of an easy nursing degree program.

Her vitriol against these crooks is NOT leveled at the Filipino student nurse, indeed, it is her very passion to see Filipino Nurses SUCCESSFUL that drives her very down to earth style of "telling it like it is".

I share her passion and love of Filipino Nurses (I am the father of 3 in college plus my wife)..and I too am outraged by the way some of the schools and even the government has treated the most precious asset the Philippines have, their skilled, dedicated and professional NURSES!!

Don't take Suzanne's effort to discourage you from falling for "easy nursing degrees" and "easy and quick immigration" personally...She is working on the behalf of her fellow nurses and can't stand charlatans and scam artists. It just so happens the Philippines harbors some of the worst perpetrators on their own countrymen that we find so exasperating and the governments failure to prosecute these crooks!

Heed her excellent advise!!! Its not a message you want to hear, its a message you HAVE TO HEAR in order to plan for the reality of a good college education and future immigration.

Hoss

suzy253, RN · Jun 2, 2008

I am not sure why you are spending so much time writing to foreign nurses. Maybe it's your job or hobby. I don't know. But your responses are always along the line of "no there are not any visa" "no we don't need you" "it will take you more than 10 years to get permanent reidency" "we need to produce more American nurses" "maybe you should opt for Australia, Canada or other countries" "don't get your hopes up" "OPT is not going to work" "no hospitals are hiring foreign nurses" "this new bill is very unlikely to be passed"
I know people depend on you for help and I really appreciate what you are doing. You have given poeple good advices when they are heading in totally wrong direction and basically lost in this big country. There is not way too much pessimism and negativity in your reponses. I don't know - but I have not seen any encouraging posts from you. And I just wonder "why?"

Looking back on your previous posts, you originally sought out Suzanne's advice in 2007. She is advising the way things are...things you might not want to hear, but it is the truth and good advice.

Hoss · Jun 2, 2008

My final comments to PRP009 concern that "I don't see any encouraging posts from you".......

If you go to the Philippine Nursing Forum, the very FIRST sticky at the top was started by Suzanne titled

"Making things better for nurses in the Philippines "

That to me goes a long way into her mindset; that is to encourage Filipinos to take it upon themselves to come up with ideas and suggestions to improve the quality of nursing right here in the Philippines first! This dosen't sound like someone trying to discourage graduate nurses, but rather inspire them to take their professional training and education and APPLY IT FROM WITHIN to correct the imbalance of new graduates and practicing nurses that exists in the Philippines.

It is well worth reading that thread...

prp009 · Jun 2, 2008

My final comments to PRP009 concern that "I don't see any encouraging posts from you".......
If you go to the Philippine Nursing Forum, the very FIRST sticky at the top was started by Suzanne titled
"Making things better for nurses in the Philippines "
That to me goes a long way into her mindset; that is to encourage Filipinos to take it upon themselves to come up with ideas and suggestions to improve the quality of nursing right here in the Philippines first! This dosen't sound like someone trying to discourage graduate nurses, but rather inspire them to take their professional training and education and APPLY IT FROM WITHIN to correct the imbalance of new graduates and practicing nurses that exists in the Philippines.
It is well worth reading that thread...

I am sorry, my intention was not to offend you or anyone else. I have not read that thread because I am not Phillipino. I have never disagreed to the fact that she is trying to help International nurses. ((I personally do not like the word foreign or alien.))

I was was infact appreciating all that she does till she started talking about this new bill. No one knows if it is going to get approved for not. I believe no one should start talking about it with that much authority. She is asking international nurses to not get their hopes up. What is wrong with having hope. It's is not a dangerous thing, I don't think hope causes any problems.

Plus, a lot of members in this allnurses community like to argue about the fact that there is not a nursing shortage in US. Are they really serious? Do poeple really believe that nursing shortage is a story......If there is not a nursing shortage why are temp agencies flourishing the way they are. United states is already ranks first among developed countries in having least amount of vacation days. So many of members are saying that if stay-home mothers went back to work(rather than taking care of their kids) and if nurses started working somemore overtime hours that will solve the problem. Is there where we really want to go? Working short-staffed dramatically increses error rates and compromises patient safety. It also increseas rate of staff injuries. Why would any one want such a situation? Is that a real solution? Why do people have problem accepting the fact that US does need international nurses and that US government is not giving Visas and permanent residency for nurses just because these nurses want to come here.

I am in US. I would like retrogression to be over. It will be nice and I know that there are chances that it will continue for a while. Till it's a real huge crisis. But incase if it does not I have started preparing for GRE and I will be in Grad school next year.

I am not taking any of the things that Suzanne is saying personally. I am just expressing my views. My question was just to her and many of you guys just came up to defend her.

And if you are talking about reality check, Every American is an Immigrant directly or indirectly, well ofcourse except for Native Americans.

galvestonrn · Jun 3, 2008

Suzanne4 you might not be the most popular person in this forum but I really APPRECIATE you. You are frank, honest and you just want to tell the plain truth (although some people do not like this). Retrogression is BRUTAL. People think that the lifting of retrogression will open the floodgates for foreign nurses to come to the U.S. I am a foreign national educated in the U.S. (ADN). However, prior to July 2007, I was in the same boat waiting for the opportunity to work legally in the U.S. I never felt I am entitled to anything. I waited patiently for my "turn" to come which finally came when my wife's PD became current. Yes, due to my wife's petition (she's a special ed. teacher) I am now able to work full-time in one of the best hospitals in our area.

I am grateful for having a vocation that allows me to help people, use the skills I acquired and be a productive member of the community. Again, I do not feel that the U.S. government is entitled to give me anything (Thank you Lawrence, my "kababayan" for saying that. As others seem to feel that the U.S. MUST hire them or else. . .). In fact, the opposite is true. I feel that I have to constantly work hard to prove to everyone that a foreign nurse is a team player, hard working, highly motivated individual and most important in all, an asset in the workplace.

Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN · Jun 3, 2008

In the spirit of International Nursing, I would encourage anyone who has the passion for nursing to become a nurse. Many new graduates have very unrealistic job expectations such as not having to work off shift or holidays. New Graduates don't realize that there are times you are the nurse, nursing assistant and housekeeping. New Graduates have a hard time adjusting to more than one patient. It is the responsibility of the experienced nurses to give the new nurses their wisdom .

No one should go into nursing as an avenue for immigration, it should be for the reason they want to be a nurse. It breaks my heart to read, that newly graduated international nurses are paying hundreds of dollars to take NCLEX and an application for a license for a state that will not issue a license without a social security number. In my opinion they are flushing their money down the drain. Who is advising these nursing students to be a nurse when there is no employment in their home country? I think Suzanne is doing international nurses a service of informing the realities of coming to the United States to be a nurse especially a new nurse without any nursing experience when there are many new licensed nurses not finding employment.