All of a sudden an ASN is no good anymore

Nursing Students ADN/BSN

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I worked my behind off for this ASN. I'd been in college for years until then with the usual useless liberal arts degree because "if I did what I loved I'd never work a day in my life" and was completely useless when it came to getting a job. So when I started as a nurse I was beside myself with joy to have, finally, a real job.

Now fifteen years later, it appears the entire state is pushing for all nurses to have a Bachelor's- hospitals don't even interview without one.

I have experience. And no offense to those of you with advanced degrees, but you couldn't hold my penlight. I've been at countless BSN's side when they have to assist an MD and they fall apart- they can't understand a sterile field, they wonder whether they're actually supposed to hold open a wound, they don't know how to wrap a bandage. A wound vac is from a foreign planet to them.

And those Master's trained RNs, geez. I can see that in your graduate studies you never learned how to start an IV, nor an NGT, and you certainly don't know how to irrigate a foley. That last one becomes comical until that MSN is found trying to irrigate the bubble.

Forgive me for my insolence, oh advanced degrees. I have experience. If I were ill, I would want an experienced nurse, not a college kid who read books about nursing until he got all the answers right on the test. But as has always, always been the case in this country, experience means nothing. Only that little piece of paper. And I'm too darn old to go back to school. Say what you want, but there is a place where you want to enjoy life, and reading textbooks is not a part of that.

I just wonder whose pockets are being filled by making those degrees the law of the land.

Nursing is the only profession I have encountered that mocks and looks down upon its colleagues for having a higher education. I am proud of my BSN and my degree has no bearing on your degree.

I understand some of your frustration because I've talked to RN's who have had their Associate and work with it for years with no problem. I'm talking about nurses with 15 + yrs of experience who never saw the need of going back to school.

Most hospitals here in TX are requiring their nurses to complete their BSN if they don't have it. It's just how it is now and is probably for our own good. That's going to push me to eventually get my Master's degree and possibly teach :)

Good luck and i hope you see the positive side to the new requirements.

Ugh. I have a BSN. I am a good student so it wasn't that difficult at all. I chose a BSN because I was young, wanted a college degree from a 4 year school. A Bachelors not an associates. Because I had scholarships to many 4 year schools it was just as costly, it would/will be easier to transition to another field/second degree if I have a bachelors already. It only took 4 years a asn would take 2-3. I was super young so didn't see the rush. Also where I lived at the time, MANY hospitals did not hire non BSNs, experience or not. Once one big hospital starts that, all of them will. Even some of the LTCs require it in that area. They can do that. IF the public thinks it's better, administration will do what they want. I CAN irrigate a foley, place an ng tube. Where I work now we have many people with BSNs and they are not worse nurses than the ASNs. Not at all. I have only been working as a nurse for few years and have helped insert many NG tubes, foleys, troubleshoot vacs. The people I helped were new grads, 20 year veterans, bsns and asns, diplomas etc. Only our manager has a MSN , I believe. Of course anyone with experience in these TASKS will be better able to them, as they should. My teachers all had at least MSNs and most still practiced in the fields they taught, many at the bedside. A few of the med surg instructors worked in ICU or med surg, peds worked in peds, ob in in LD . etc. They were VERY educated on pharm/patho in those fields and knew how to do any procedures any nurse in those areas is excpected to know how to do. I also don't think experience always equals expertese. for some it is just more time doing the wrong thing.

Specializes in Case Management, ICU, Telemetry.

Your frustration is duly noted and understandable. To answer your question: Change. The world is in a constant state of change. You can choose to be bitter and angry or you can change with the world. See it in a positive way; it gives you a reason to go back to school, learn more and be a better nurse. Not saying that ADNs are lacking in education but you will undoubtably learn SOMETHING gaining a BSN.Also, having BSN nurses statistically makes a facility look better, I believe this is something that is looked at when trying for MAGNET status.I wish you well and hope that you see this as an incentive to improve.Sincerely, a BSN new grad that couldn't hold your penlight. :)

I'm an ADN nurse who was also annoyed to find through job hunting that I would need to get my BSN if I want to get into the hospitals. I have kids in college right now, and a BA of my own in a social science field, so I had not intended of going this route. But, once I got over it, I realized its for my own good. I don't want to be limited in my future by my education. I'm no spring chicken, either! But, who knows how long I will live or need to stay on the job???

I think there is value in an advanced degree. I think the subject matter of nursing is covered more thoroughly. For example, my BSN program will require a 3 credit nutrition course (my adn program gave us 2 weeks). My BSN program also requires two separate assessment courses for 6 credit hours (my ADN had assessment mixed in the curriculum and since that was always in fast forward, 7 weeks segments, there was little time to focus on it). I find it very telling that the subjects covered more in depth in the BSN program are the exact topics I feel shaky on from my ADN program. As for statistics, I was required to take it for my ADN program. Chemistry is NOT required in either program, and I think it should be so I plan to do that on my own.

The way I see it, any BSN who is lacking in hands on skills (NG tubes, foleys etc) will pick that up quick on the job. Then, they will surpass those with only ADN education (like myself) because of the more indepth nature of their education. Can an ADN educate themselves further to be competitive? Sure. But, why not get the official credit for it by earning the degree?

"Life's about changing, nothing ever stays the same..."

Specializes in ICU / PCU / Telemetry / Oncology.

The problem I have with your post is that you have generalized all BSNs and higher as being inferior to you. It's quite possible that *gasp* there may be one or two BSNs out there that are the exceptions to your rule? I can bet top dollar that there are.

And I'm too darn old to go back to school.

I graduated from my BSN program with a 62-year-old woman who runs circles around the 20-somethings. She obviously was not too old to go back to school. And she was a summa cum laude I might add. Clearly, age is just a number for the lucky ones.

Specializes in LTC, Rehab.

And then there are the LPN's ..............

I have to agree with where Patty is coming from. i too am a diploma/ADN RN, and an older experienced nurses- The discrimination didn't start with the ADN/Diploma Nurse, It started with the BSN's

It started when the BSN's first started coming into the hospital areas for jobs- that way way way back for me back into the early 1980's. I used to say to other ADN'diploma nurses I worked with- didn't their motheres ever teach them how to behave in some one else's living room? At that time there were very very few BSN's in the hospital- even amongst the managers. The BSN's even though out numbered, came in with superiority attitudes. Then gradually the managers were required to have BSN's and with that came strenght in discriminatory and derrogatory remards toward the ADN/diploma nurses; .to the point where it was done openly and meant to exclude the ADN/diploma nurse because "we were beneath" them/the BSN's- they let you know it also. But we, ADN's/diplomas, were the ones who were the skill and critical thinking backbones of those floors because we were taught it from jump street. The BSN's were funmbling and litterly tripping over their own 2 feet.

So you take years of this as a older nurse who has paid their dues and gathered their experience and then you come accross not only this superiority attutude but now there is wide spread age discrimination and the retoric "MUST have a BSN", BSN required' on 99% of all the job postings, Then you find that age is now a factor. I have even had this godd awful BSN co-worker talk down and demean me in front of others-I personally had this occur: I was verbally hammered one day by a co-worker BSN That's Nursing 101 sweetie, you know sweety- a BSN who is have my ages with only 1/3 of my years of experience. My only reply was: oh yes oh great one, I am a old nurse and now I all of a sudden know nothing" as she was now inventing her own chemotherapy- calling 5-FU--- 4 FU I didn't know whether to laugh in her face or spit in it. That is the feelings and reaction this kind of blind arrogance inspires in me.

So yes, I can appreciate from a very personal level - where patty is coming from. It is not us older nurses with experience that do not have the communication skills, it's these younger generation of BSN's who have no manners,no learned socialization process, no respect for ANYbody- including their patients. and especially the patient's families. I have many a time had to bail them out of something they said to a family member that offended.

It is not us older nurses with experience that do not have the communication skills, it's these younger generation of BSN's who have no manners,no learned socialization process, no respect for ANYbody- including their patients.

I do not find this to be a strong argument for superior social/communication skills. Certainly not for being respectful.

And then there are the LPN's ..............
What are you getting at? Practical nursing is a separate licensure and scope with a different role in nursing.
Specializes in geriatrics.

This whole debate is tiring. I'm sure OP that you could run circles around me. Not because I have a BSN, but because you have 15 years experience and I have 2 years. I would have gladly taken a two year program, but the BSN is mandatory in my country. All ADN/ Diploma nurses were grandfathered in, so those nurses are still eligible to apply for jobs. As they should be. This is in Canada. As far as I'm concerned, they should do the same in the US. That way, all new grads are required to have a BSN. Only new grads. This practice would eliminate many nursing schools, AND put an end to the whole BSN/ADN nonsense.

Specializes in Oncology.
This whole debate is tiring. I'm sure OP that you could run circles around me. Not because I have a BSN, but because you have 15 years experience and I have 2 years. I would have gladly taken a two year program, but the BSN is mandatory in my country. All ADN/ Diploma nurses were grandfathered in, so those nurses are still eligible to apply for jobs. As they should be. This is in Canada. As far as I'm concerned, they should do the same in the US. That way, all new grads are required to have a BSN. Only new grads. This practice would eliminate many nursing schools, AND put an end to the whole BSN/ADN nonsense.

I look forward to a day when this is the case. Again, it's not about pushing out older nurses, but about having a clear educational requirement for entry into licensure. Nursing is becoming more and more advanced. Patients are more complex. I have no doubts that ADNs with years of experience thinking like a nurse are adequately prepared to deal with any changes with some continuing ed. I'm not so sure that 2 years will continue to be enough to learn it anymore as foundation for a new grad.

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