kcmylorn

InfirmiereJolie - don't you think that if you are a licensed nurse, you should atleast have more up- to- date information/references on the subject matter/mental health care- atleast something more recent than than 1965. Perhaps you should study up on your healthcare instead of ammunition and guns. And in your mind- the mental health system is fine, and in your mind there is no such thing as public health?? And in your mind- the mental health advocates are all members of the NRA??? I find it a bit odd that a health care?professional would know so much about guns.

[h=6]http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/25/science/scientists-to-seek-clues-to-violence-in-genome-of-gunman-in-newtown-conn.html?ref=us&_r=0 News Analysis[/h][h=1]Seeking Answers in Genome of Gunman[/h] Genomic analysis will be used to study the DNA of the man responsible for killing 20 children and seven adults in Newtown, Conn, in an effort to discover if there are biological clues to extreme violence. [h=6]By GINA KOLATA[/h][h=6]Published: December 24, 2012[/h]

[COLOR=#0066cc]http://mentalillnesspolicy.org/states/lauraslawindex.html Involuntary Outpatient Commitment AOT Research[h=2]Research on Assisted Outpatient Treatment (AOT (Involuntary Outpatient Commitment)[/h]SUMMARY: Forty-four states permit the use of assisted outpatient treatment, also called outpatient commitment. However, having a law on the books does not mean the state uses the law. Many states do not. The six states that do not have AOT are Connecticut, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Mexico, Nevada, and Tennessee. Assisted outpatient treatment is a form of treatment limited to those individuals who have a history of dangerousness or multiple rehospitalizations associated with medication noncompliance. Assisted Outpatient Treatment (AOT) is a court-order to accept treatment as a condition of remaining in the community. The court may order an individual to accept medication, and that is usually enough to ensure compliance .New York and Kendra's Law (Assisted Outpatient Treatment/AOT) Home Page Legislative history AOT was proposed in 1989, by families of people with serious mental illness who wanted better treatment for their relatives. In 1994, NYS started a pilot program at Bellevue Hospital in NYC. In August 1999, when Kendra Webdale was pushed to her death in front of a subway by someone with untreated mental illness, the public recognized that AOT not only improved care for people with mental illness, it could also increase public safety. As a result, NYS enacted "Kendra's Law. The law was renewed in 2005 and 2010. It sunsets in 2015 unless renewed or made permanent. Cracks in Kendra's Law have been identified that need closing Laura's Law and California Why should we have Assisted Outpatient Treatment (AOT) laws? For those who suffer from an untreated severe mental illness like schizophrenia, time is brain. With each psychotic episode they lose the brain cells they will need to recover with. A malfunction in the frontal lobe (anosognosia) prevents somes from recognizing they are ill and that causes them to refuse treatment that can restore them to sanity. Hallucinations and delusions take over, too frequently causing deterioriation to the point of violence. Treatment can prevent the deterioration.

Why not go to unemployment- at least apply for it and see what they say. Don't assume that you don't qualify and don't believe every thing the employer/hospital/nurse manager tells you- they don't know the unemployment rights and laws as I have found out some do and deliberately give out false information to save the hospital money in unemployment benefits. It is the hospital who pays these benefits for each emloyee it lays off, fires , coaxes out of their job. (The hospital employer pays apporx $15,000/year for each employee). Especially if your were forced to into a resignation/leaveing- "concentual discharge" Look this information up. I made that mistake of ASSuming I was not qualifed for unemployment and used up all my savings. I had gone with the belief for many years that "nurses are not allowed to file unemployment" and had a nurse manager( in a Philly hospital) who bragged about how she went to these unemployment hearings and refused to give employees, she had fired, their unemployment and how she was even trying to keep from giving them their well earned pensions!! This case nvolved a old unit secretary who had worked that hospital for 30 years, which she fired over some stupid mistake that was ot even the unit secretaries job description, just based on the hearsay of some one else and even tried to keep this woman's pension!! This is when I began to rethink my opinion of nurse managers- this was so dishonest and underhanded. This manager used to come back from these unemployemnt appeals hearings - laughing at what she had been able to pulled off. This case was going to be the star in her crown!!! I have been told by unemloyment investigators that the decision to grant unemployment is not up to the employer and that they will tell you anything to keep from paying. These are "good corporate butt kissing nurse managers" Go to unemployment and get the facts. I am, on wendnesday after christmas going to start applying for jobs out side of nursing that are not even remotely associated with nursing. I have been an RN for years with all hospital experience and can't find a job. This is my second stretch on unemployment- I have been doing temp positions I had found on my own and even went with a really bad agency- Favorite Healthcare- I was given assignements that were 80,90 and 100 miles each way from my home with a 13 year old car, I was given assignments that were so far below my skill level " experience, education and payscale levels"( direct quote in writing )as deemed per the unemployment investigator, now it has been over 2 years since I have been in the hospital, I don't think I can ever get back into a hospital. This agency sent me on LTC assignments only. I found another temp position with out their help and never checked my profile with this agency. When I went looking for per deim agency assignments as the payscale for the temp position was so low, I could not understand why a hospital this agency submitted me to, had rejected me- I had years of tele and step down experience. It was when I was updating my yearly credentials for this Favorite healthcare that I discovered the only experience this agency has me down for on my profile was LTC which I had really no experience in only scattered shifts through the Favorite healthcare. There was absolutely no notation or reflection that I had any acute ccare hospital experience at all. There was 30 years down the drain!!! What these nursing agencies do is- they receive these orders/contracts from these compaines( either hospitals, medical supply companies, LTC facilities) for supplemental staffing. These agencies work off commissions from these places to fill their staffing needs. The agency is loyal to these facilities and companies and not the nurses who work for them. These non nursing agency office workers( also known as: have tierra crowned themselves as nurse recruiters) place who ever they can into these work orders just to get that commission. In reality- to H$$$ with you, the nurse and your career that you worked for. They are clueless as to what a nurses role and job skill is all about. These agencies are given big bucks /hour for "a nurse" for example: they could be given $100/hr for a nurse- that nurse will only see $30/hr. the agency keeps the rest. Not bad pay for a person with only a high school education!! The unemployment is aware of this also. Many of these agenies do not participate in a state unemployement plan. This has been a financial disaster for me and my family. Not to mention the destruction of my career I worked for, for 30 years.!!

I'm not a new grad, but an old experienced RN who can't find a position around the Philly area. When I interviewed for positions far away, 50+miles, I got the stupid question from the HR and Nurse manager- "why so far away from where you live?" Do these people live in caves or vaccums? How come they don't know what's going on in this industry? I am to the point- I don't feel like answering such a dumb question? Do any of you get this question and how do you answer it?

I'm finding this ban gun posts alittle long winded and pretty boring, along with the nit picking of every sentance made by posters with the opposing view. All the banning in the world is not going to stop someone who is mentally distubed from getting a gun and killing people. I think we can all agree that DUI is against the law and has been banned. We had a group formed and they lobbied hard-MADD- and won. However, do we not still have people who continue to drink and drive and kill people- including innocent children?? What about using a cell phone and texting while driving- there are laws, atleast in quite a few states- it is illegal to drive while on a cell phone and texting, yet it is still done. In both these cases- in contrast, the offenders are not mentally ill and know right well what they are doing, yet they continue to do it.- I know personally- I was rear ended by some one who was texting- $3,000 damage to back of my car!! That person that ran into me was not mentally ill, and having a law banning it did not prevent him from texting and running into me. So nit picking everyones arguments with what is going on in Switzerland, is getting alittle old! The fact remains- there is still a behavior that causes these deadly insidents, public health emergencies, and until we stop the behavior, you can have all the laws and bans you want, which I think will just cause more illegal behaviors. and yes, just like drug trafficking, no it doesn't belong on another form, and whoppie , now we can have gun smuggling to worry about and foot a bill for. Put the money into fixing the shame of a mental health programs we have in this country. Clean up this sick society. I personally will take this one step further- so flame me if you want, I don't really care, but I have to state that I think that kid's mother had a drinking problem- neighbors, friends, fellow barmates, state she went to this " restaurant and bar" 3 times a week to"unwind", the owners of which have been interviewed several times; in addition to every picture that is published of her, has her holding a glass in her hand. I kind of think that is inappropriate and poor judgement if you have a kid at home alone your concerned about. And the lasted report , she had just returned home 3 days prior form a "holiday" at some spa and resort in upstate NH, leaving the kid alone at home while she was gone. So she drinks regularly, has a mentally unstable fragile kid at home( never mind his chronical age- that doesn't even count, he wasn't 20 years old in the mind), neither of them have coped well with this sepration and divorce inspite of alot of money, keeps guns in the house, lets the kid deteriorate down in the basement with violent video games, allows the kid to behave which ever way he pleases- kid is sick and makes mom sit out side the bedroom door all night, and where's the mention of ongoing psychiatic care?? And there are posters on this thread that think banning guns are going to solve this kind of problem???

Our police are over burdened now with trying to stop the drug trafficking. What are they going to do when gun smuggling comes to town. You all know that when we ban all guns, there are still going to be those that want to keep a weapon in their home- they will purchase it illegally. If it's purchased illegally does that mean a kid can't get ahold of it and take it to school? I just don't see how a ban on guns is going to stop anyone from doing these things. There a ban on illegal drugs, does it stop those who want to use- NO. Then what about the guys that go deer hunting or duck hunting every season? we need to build better people and try to repair the ones we have. The money woud be better spent in the mental health arena. Why don't we start teaching people respect and boundaries, spell it out for them- this is what you say and what your don't say because.....!! Our entire culture needs to change- stop the emotional violence and the verbal violence.

I am not a fan, nor am I a member of the NRA. I do not own a gun, I have ever seen a "real gun" nor have I ever owned a gun. I am terrified of guns. This would not be something I would have in my own home. I am not psych nurse, nor have I ever been a psych nurse but I have taken care of enough patient's with mental health disease over 32 years on med/surg units, tele units, oncology units and in the outpatient family practice area to see, observe and understand enough to know, that mental illness is not adequately addressed in this country not are these patients given the attention and humane decency they should be receiving. Some one posted about non compliance with medication and if they don't want to "help themelves" well, My theory is, for what ever it is worth, is that due to the mental illness- they can't. it's called and I have seen this on many a patient charts in the doctors progress notes_ "insight is poor" "motivation is poor, non existant or minimal". These are 2 determinants that the doctors used to evaluated patients on daily rounds- please start reading your charts, people. Diabetics are non compliant, cardiacs are non compliant, so are many other patient's with physiological diagnosis. But i guess becase we can see a physical cause or symptom that makes them more socially acceptable and deserving of our sympathy. Well mental illness has symptoms we can see also: agitation, pacing, hostile, angry, poor eye contact, no eye contact, non verbal, aloof, distant, flat, mistrustful, confused, disoriented, "tearful"( and how many times have we charted that.) These are symtoms.They are not just adjetives bringing out the writer in us. I have seen staff be so negligent, disrespectful, condescending, down right cruel and abusive to them. One @@@, I reported to my department of health. This nurse has no business working an inner city FQHC- she doesn't understand the patient population. The fact remains that our mental health heathcare system is inadeqate- poor and lack of access, sever shortage of formally educated and prepared mental health professionals, poor pay for those who are already practicing, lack of widespead education and literacy on mental health. Lack of primary prevention and health promotion stradegies to address the issues. We simply are not prepared to take competent care of the mentally ill. Every person in this country is responsible. We need to look inside our selves first. How many times did we say something cruel or abusive to some one else. How do we know how that other person is going to take and react to the statement? We don't and we pass it off as- "well, that's their problem", and I love this---"They need to grow a thick skin!!!"" Well no , it's your problem- if you are the one who said the offending phrase or statement, you need to take responsibility for it. I don't know what went on with Adam Lanza- I can only guess with what I have learned over the years in nursing, seen in my patients and how I have seen other nursing staff treat mental health patient's, know what has been disgusting quips have been said to me over the years and what I have read in the news. That kid did not have it together to begin with as a small child through no fault of his own, his mother and father went through a divorce- that is a major stressor on any one even with out psychiatric illness. It may be a common event, and if your don't have a psych illness going into the divorce, you'll end up with one coming out of one. It blows apart a life style for everyone involved. A coworker of mine, the Director of Critical care, whom I have known for 30 years, was going through a divorce, needed to be hospitalized for 3 weeks for MH reasons, lost at least 40 lbs and was so klingy- I didn't recognize them. That divorce impacted that kid and then mom was noted to have been planning to move him and her out to washington state- again, a disruption in a routine- to someone who was not adaptable to change. I think the kid then picked up the guns and killed mom to stop this move, and went to the school because it represented a family support system and a life he lost; seeing parents dropping kids off, laughing, running into the school and loving life, hugging and kissing their kids goodbye. I think he snapped, I think mom tried to stop him and he shot her. I don't think it was premeditated and I don't think the kid was rational when he did it. I think the suicide was to put an end to his own internal torment and pain. JMHO

I wish the nurses of this upcoming strke on Dec 24 much luck and success. I know for me- I am seeking employment out of nursing come the first business day following christmas. I can not afford to remain in nursing any longer after 32 years. I will loose my house and be non payment on my bankruptcy. I have nursing to thank for the bankruptcy which I began in 2008 after 8 months of unemployment and using all my savings to pay bills. I knew nothing of unemployment back then. Since that time, I have has one temp position after another and 2 eposides of needing to call up on unemployment to keep from drowning. I will not be celebrating christmas again this year- haven't been able to since 2008. Nursing is negatively effecting my entire life. The unemployment in nursing is totally uncalled for. These hospitals are getting millions every year from the governement and CMS in reimbursment and subsidies. There needs to be a major federal investagation into EVERY hospital's and healthcare facility's books. There needs to be testimoney before federal congressional panels from these CEO's and their financial CZARS as to why CEO's are making the salaries they are and just whose pockets these federal monies are ending up in!! And for the record I did go back and start working on my BSN- with grant money I could not have recieved had I not been unemployed. With a 4.0 GPA at that. So all the excuses these "hiring entites " are giving nurses as reasons for not hiring are lies also. BOLD IN YOUR FACE LIES!! its about continuing to give a CEO a multi million dollar salaried contract in the wake of cutting the reimbursement rates of federal funding. Every time the feds say there is going to be a cut in federal reimbursement- the louts, gougers and theives in their CEO chairs go after the nursing staff. Get their fat lazy butts out of their comfy CEO chars and make them and their spoiled rotton families take care of these patients! The trigger this time, Sutter and Kiaser nurses, is : the threat of the fiscal cliff and the for certain/ count on it, cuts to federal spending no matter if the cliff takes place or not. I am very suprised no one has taken a gun to them yet. I kow i wouldn't shed one tear over it.

I am just opininionating here- I read yesterday, that kid's mother also grew up around guns. She was described as being from a "gun culture". She grew up in New Hampshire- which has many rural areas. The paternal side of my family is from NH and still exclusively lives there. I was not from NH. I grew up and have lived all my life in suburban metro areas- It would be out of character for me to have any kind of gun. For that kid's mom- it was not. She was a "stock broker" and then a SAHM. But she did have a mentally unstable fragile kid living in the same house with her and the guns. It has also been reported, she tried to help and had the means to do so. I don't think she was on her A game and excerised good judgement about a gun access in the house with a mentally unstable fragile kid. For her guns in the house were normal. I would be very interested to find out when she bought those guns. I think this still goes back to the "root cause" -- the mental illness. I wonder while we are assuming that since she had considerable means to obtain and provide this mental healthcare, what was the quality of mental healthcare he received? I don't think high priced care, necessarily means quality care. It was also written that she was planning on moving out to Washington state to seek care for him,that she was with growing concern for him per her interviewed friends, that the kid dressed in the same green shirt and khaki pants every day when in high school per his interviewed former class mates, he was a computer wiz( per his former class mates and high school teachers) and his computer at the house was destroyed, possibly beyond investigators being able to put back together. The custody terms of the divorce was( as reported by the AP press) the kid lived with mom and what ever her decision was about kid's care was the decision. The kid has not been in contact with dad for a few years. It sounds to me like dad signed away his parental rights to that kid over to the mom during the divorce- dad's abandoment, rejection and now mom wants to move to a diferent state-a disruption in a daily routine in some one who wears the same clothes day in and day out. Isn't that a psychiatric disease? I don't think gun laws are going to solve this problem.

Madwife- it sounds like you are going to have to teach your staff work ethic and team work. Would a plan, where for 13 weeks( psych says it takes 13 weeks to change a behavior) assign the CNA's of a shift in groups of 2 to each other and give them a list of things that need to be accomplished from their job description before the end of shift), assign the nurse from one shift who report off to the nurse from the next shift( keep the pairs consistant, Nurse A-1 from day shift constantly given the same assisgn ment with Nurse B1 from the following shift) what is expected from the 2 of them right down to what needs to be accomplished by hand off report to each other( no more leaving things for the next shift) and the same for charge nurse A shift with charge nurse B shift. And hold weekly meetings at change of shift to moniot progress and discuss issues.

Nurse Karen, What about sending that ppetition to the DHS and NIH?

You are not alone- I'm in a similar boat. I got screwed by an agency- promised me extra money per hour for doing a shift no one wanted- then they refused to give me my pay stub and I know I didn't get the extra money. Went to unemployment. I got my unemployment.I have been applying everywhere too- career builders, RN for 30 years - all bedside acute care except last 2 years doctors office which is why I can't get back to the hospital/out too long. Some facilities, I applied directly to their websites. I've been out for approx 3 weeks also. Been on 3 interviews- I don't think i got any of the positions. I am going to start applying to non nursing positions too after the holiday this week when things open up again- a retail chain for a clerk. That is about all I can do at this point. no Christmas here either. Not even a tree.

That has to United Healthcare- I took that test also. I am not sure if I am on their auto reject list. I will try it to see.

so you are in favor of studying the mating habits of the pot-bellied spotted howling gecko wombat :)? just kiddin, i understand what you are saying. my random thoughts are not always the best lol Probably have a better chance of getting a job doing that and probably better pay. To answer some of the orginal question: Ive been looking for full time positon for 4 years, Have filed and been on unemployment twice. To get off unemployment, I have had to take several temp positions including an agency position( second attempt to avoid unemployment) where I was asked to do assignments 95, 87 and 109 miles from my home( each way) for 4 hour clinics which started at 7:30 AM. One assignement was for 8 hrs 50 mies from my home, even told I would get extra per hour for doing the assignement, did the assigment, didn't see one dime of the extra money and then the agency refused to give me my pay stub to check the hourly rate. I went back to unemployment who told me they probably pocketed the money for themselves. and to not answer the phone to them and not to answer their e-mails any more. I got my unemployment which is where I stand now. been on 3 interviews, no word yet, I don't hold out much hope for ither of them, I have 30 years experience all acute care bedside with 2 years out patient doctors office- I am considering applying to a non nursing position after the Christmas holiday in a retail store. If I do get that position i am writing my state nursing association and telling them all about it and even to a few of the newspapers. I will tell every one I come in contact that I am a nurse and this is where I have to work to pay bills and why- Hospital CEO"s like mulitmillion dollar salaries, they don't believe in hiring nurses to take care of patients. I refuse to cover up for any of them. 5 brand new hospital built in a 30 mile radius of me and there are RN's on unemployment- I went to an information session at one of the local colleges and I know there are other RN's out of work- I've talked to them. They are going back to school to get certificates and associate degrees in fields other than nursing just to get jobs. Unemployment will pay for retraining!!! There is no nursing shortage. There's no shortage of money either- it's all in the CEO's pockets. How many resumes have I sent out- too many. Fiscal cliff- I hope it comes, I have nothing else to lose!!But those CEO's sure do. I will finish my BSN which I got state aid for due to the unemployment and throw that in the brag pile to the nursing association- BSN required!! for what a clerk in a retail store!!