All of a sudden an ASN is no good anymore

[pattyslattery]

I worked my behind off for this ASN. I'd been in college for years until then with the usual useless liberal arts degree because "if I did what I loved I'd never work a day in my life" and was completely useless when it came to getting a job. So when I started as a nurse I was beside myself with joy to have, finally, a real job.

Now fifteen years later, it appears the entire state is pushing for all nurses to have a Bachelor's- hospitals don't even interview without one.

I have experience. And no offense to those of you with advanced degrees, but you couldn't hold my penlight. I've been at countless BSN's side when they have to assist an MD and they fall apart- they can't understand a sterile field, they wonder whether they're actually supposed to hold open a wound, they don't know how to wrap a bandage. A wound vac is from a foreign planet to them.

And those Master's trained RNs, geez. I can see that in your graduate studies you never learned how to start an IV, nor an NGT, and you certainly don't know how to irrigate a foley. That last one becomes comical until that MSN is found trying to irrigate the bubble.

Forgive me for my insolence, oh advanced degrees. I have experience. If I were ill, I would want an experienced nurse, not a college kid who read books about nursing until he got all the answers right on the test. But as has always, always been the case in this country, experience means nothing. Only that little piece of paper. And I'm too darn old to go back to school. Say what you want, but there is a place where you want to enjoy life, and reading textbooks is not a part of that.

I just wonder whose pockets are being filled by making those degrees the law of the land.

[krEDrnbsn]

I have to agree with where Patty is coming from. i too am a diploma/ADN RN, and an older experienced nurses- The discrimination didn't start with the ADN/Diploma Nurse, It started with the BSN's

It started when the BSN's first started coming into the hospital areas for jobs- that way way way back for me back into the early 1980's. I used to say to other ADN'diploma nurses I worked with- didn't their motheres ever teach them how to behave in some one else's living room? At that time there were very very few BSN's in the hospital- even amongst the managers. The BSN's even though out numbered, came in with superiority attitudes. Then gradually the managers were required to have BSN's and with that came strenght in discriminatory and derrogatory remards toward the ADN/diploma nurses; .to the point where it was done openly and meant to exclude the ADN/diploma nurse because "we were beneath" them/the BSN's- they let you know it also. But we, ADN's/diplomas, were the ones who were the skill and critical thinking backbones of those floors because we were taught it from jump street. The BSN's were funmbling and litterly tripping over their own 2 feet.

So you take years of this as a older nurse who has paid their dues and gathered their experience and then you come accross not only this superiority attutude but now there is wide spread age discrimination and the retoric "MUST have a BSN", BSN required' on 99% of all the job postings, Then you find that age is now a factor. I have even had this godd awful BSN co-worker talk down and demean me in front of others-I personally had this occur: I was verbally hammered one day by a co-worker BSN That's Nursing 101 sweetie, you know sweety- a BSN who is have my ages with only 1/3 of my years of experience. My only reply was: oh yes oh great one, I am a old nurse and now I all of a sudden know nothing" as she was now inventing her own chemotherapy- calling 5-FU--- 4 FU I didn't know whether to laugh in her face or spit in it. That is the feelings and reaction this kind of blind arrogance inspires in me.

So yes, I can appreciate from a very personal level - where patty is coming from. It is not us older nurses with experience that do not have the communication skills, it's these younger generation of BSN's who have no manners,no learned socialization process, no respect for ANYbody- including their patients. and especially the patient's families. I have many a time had to bail them out of something they said to a family member that offended.

Since when it is "us vs. them"? I can't even tell you which of my co-workers have a BSN and which ones don't. And it doesn't matter. We are there to work together to take care of patients.

I am honestly perplexed how you can make assumptions on my character based on my degree. I may be young, and I have a BSN, but I do not have a "superiority attitude." I have manners, and the utmost respect for my parents, co-workers, and patients/patient's families, no matter how difficult they may be.

[nursie_nursie_415]

... I have an ASN & several years of experience. Just recently I got called to interview for a per diem position I applied for about a month ago, so I wouldn't say that an "ASN is no good anymore". If BSN is preferred, then experience regardless of degree still takes the cake...

However, I am all for BSN being the new standard. I always thought it was funny that ASN nurses coordinated care for patients while much of the other staff had Bachelor's & Master's degrees.

[BrandonLPN, LPN]

To tell a ADN that they aren't adequately prepared to do a job they've been doing perfectly well for years *is* a hurtful thing to say. And, for LPNs, it's often implied that for us to even be called 'nurses' is damaging or an embarrassment to more educated nurses. This is where the hostility stems from. It doesn't justify it, but there it is.

[joanna73, BSN, RN]

Aside from raising the standard, everyone would ultimately benefit from the BSN as the new standard, provided all ASN's were grandfathered in. More jobs would become available, as many nursing schools close. The US has far too many schools. Across Canada, we have maybe 40 nursing schools. The argument, "I don't want to do a 4 year degree..." No problem. Those students can take the 2 year LPN program. There are lots of jobs for LPN's in Canada. However, the people who desire the RN (anyone as of 2009) must enroll in a BSN. Those are the options for us. I think this model works. For one thing, our tuition costs and unemployment is a LOT lower in Canada.

[BrandonLPN, LPN]

Aside from raising the standard, everyone would ultimately benefit from the BSN as the new standard, provided all ASN's were grandfathered in. More jobs would become available, as many nursing schools close. The US has far too many schools. AcrossCanada, we have maybe 40 nursing schools. The argument, "I don't want to do a 4 year degree..." No problem. Those students can take the 2 year LPN program. There are lots of jobs for LPN's in Canada.However, the people who desire the RN (anyone as of 2009) must enroll in a BSN. Those are the options for us. I think this model works. For one thing, our tuition costs andunemployment is a LOT lower in Canada.

Part of me still thinks the BSN should just be a separate licensure on it's own. But I have to admit, this makes sense to me. I assume the LPNs without an associates degree were grandfathered in similar to the ADNs?

[joanna73, BSN, RN]

Canada doesn't have Associates Degrees. We never have. The RN program used to be a choice of a 2 year Diploma, or 4 year degree. Similarly, the LPN program is 2 years. I think it always was. LPN's don't require grandfathering. The grandfather clause is only for RN's who are Diploma educated. Everyone wins this way. Some RN's choose to continue their education, but those who don't are not out of work.

[joanna73, BSN, RN]

I see what you're asking...I think, Brandon. LPN to RN programs are few and far between up here. For the ones that exist, they are very competitive, and usually the LPN is required to work for 1-2 years before they are accepted. Then, I think the bridge program is 2 years. Online nursing programs also don't exist, with the exception of 3 or 4 MSN programs. Anyone desiring their BSN goes to class for 4 years. This is largely the issue with some of the American recent grads, IMO. Far too many options, lack of in class time, different standards, too many expensive private schools. Based on everything I've read on these boards, your system is not very effective.

[brandy1017, ASN, RN]

I just wish if BSN is going to be required of all the experienced and working ADN RN's the hospitals would pay for it. The VA is the only hospital system I know of that actually pays for your BSN and also has excellent tuition reimbursement for those that have a BSN and the thousands of dollars in student loans to go with it!

For nurses in their 40-50's to be very careful about taking on student loan debt at a time they need to be saving for retirement, because if the student's loans aren't paid back by the time you retire your social security is on the line! This BSN only drive is really about prestige and doesn't take into consideration the many RN's who have a BA/BS in another field already! College is so overpriced now and a BSN doesn't pay anymore than an ADN, unless you work for the VA system!

The ANA is pushing for BSN and DNP for prestige and to fill the coffers of the universities with a steady stream of college students and the end result is student loans the price of mortgages! This is not the answer!

[JZ_RN]

ADN and BSN take the same test, work in the same scope of practice. I am tired of being treated like I am uneducated and unworthy because I only have an ADN. I am working on my BSN but only for the pay raise that work offers and possibly new opportunities, though I don't honestly think any of these busywork classes will help me as a nurse. It may help me grow and learn as a person but I have not learned anything I can really apply that I didn't already know from working as a nurse.

[loriangel14, RN]

Canada doesn't have Associates Degrees. We never have. The RN program used to be a choice of a 2 year Diploma, or 4 year degree. Similarly, the LPN program is 2 years. I think it always was. LPN's don't require grandfathering. The grandfather clause is only for RN's who are Diploma educated. Everyone wins this way. Some RN's choose to continue their education, but those who don't are not out of work.

LPN used to be a one year certificate.There are still bridging programs in Ontario for those who want the diploma.

[joanna73, BSN, RN]

Fair enough, but it must have been quite a long time ago that the LPN was a one year certificate. For as long as I can remember, I only recall seeing two year programs for the LPN.

[loriangel14, RN]

Yeah I have one coworker that took hers about 17 years ago and then she took the bridge.