Recent CA new grad with DUI waiting for ATT

3rdeyeRN · Oct 14, 2014

I submitted my application to CA BRN in February of 2014 before I graduated in May. My check was cashed in March. My application was officially denied May 9th. I sent in appeal the following day and got an ATT on May 30th with the condition that I would not know my results until things are settled with the BRN. I just received a Statement of Issues October 9th, it's basically a court document outlining your criminal history and the reasons why the BRN chose to deny your license. You get 15 days to respond as to whether you want a hearing, want to withdraw your application, or contact the Attorney General's office to inquire about a Stipulated Agreement. I heard the agreement takes about two months to draft. If anyone is reading this--PLEASE get legal advise before you submit your application. Several of my classmates had DUI's and DID NOT get denied initially like I and many others had. I am in a bad situation because I cannot afford an attorney and it looks like I will have to figure things out on my own. My next step is to call and find out what the AG's office is trying to offer me. From what I have heard it's usually probation terms 1-19.

Recommended Guidelines for Disciplinary Orders (an online document):

1) Obey all Laws

2) Comply With Board’s Probation Program

3) Report in Person-During the period of probation, shall appear in person at interviews/ meetings as directed

4) Residency or Practice Outside of State-Periods of residency or practice as a registered nurse outside of California shall not apply toward a reduction of this probation time period.

5) Submit Written Reports-During the period of probation, shall submit or cause to be submitted such written reports/declarations and verification of actions

6) Function as a Registered Nurse-during the period of probation, shall engage in the practice of registered nursing in California for a minimum of 24 hours per week for 6 consecutive months

7) Employment Approval and Reporting Requirements-shall obtain prior approval from the Board before commencing or continuing any employment, paid or voluntary, as a registered nurse

8) Supervision-shall obtain prior approval from the Board regarding respondent’s level of supervision and/or collaboration

9) Employment-shall not work for a nurse’s registry, in any

private duty position as a registered nurse, a temporary nurse placement agency, a traveling nurse, or

for an in-house nursing pool. shall not work for a licensed home health agency as a visiting nurse unless the registered nursing supervision and other protections for home visits have been approved. shall work only on a regularly assigned, identified and predetermined worksite(s) and shall not work in a float capacity.

10) Complete a Nursing Course(s)-at his or her own expense, shall enroll and successfully complete a course(s) relevant to the practice of registered nursing no later than six months prior to the end of his or her probationary term

11) Cost Recovery (Does not apply to Applicants)

12) Violation of Probation-If a respondent violates the conditions of his/her probation, the Board after giving the respondent notice and an opportunity to be heard, may set aside the stay order and impose the stayed discipline (revocation/suspension) of the respondent’s license

13) License Surrender-During respondent’s term of probation, if he or she ceases

practicing due to retirement, health reasons or is otherwise unable to satisfy the conditions of probation, respondent may surrender his or her license to the Board

Optional Probationary Terms if the offense involves alcohol or drug use (self explanatory):

14) Physical Examination

15) Participate in Treatment/Rehabilitation Program for Chemical Dependence

16) Abstain From Use of Psychotropic (Mood-Altering) Drugs

17) Submit to Tests and Samples

18) Mental Health Examination

19) Therapy or Counseling Program

20) Actual Suspension of License

From what I am told all of the items that require some type of healthcare professional or testing come at your own expense. BRN recommends probation for at least 3 years. You can send in "mitigation evidence" to try to reduce these terms or try to get a letter of reprimand with a clear license (I don't know how easy that is). I haven't called the AG's office to see what they are offering yet because I was hoping that I could miraculously obtain counsel and that hasn't happened, so once I call I will give an update. :'(

morningglory123 · Oct 14, 2014

Hi h3rd, Thank you for the clear and very thorough response. Seems like you've done your homework. And, since you have, you may do well without paying the additional costs of an attorney. I'm in the same boat as you but all my dates are a bit later (app submitted April, denied August, waiting on SOI's). Good luck and please keep us updated! I will do as well!

3rdeyeRN · Oct 15, 2014

I spoke with the AG's office today (they actually contacted me first). The first step in this process is scheduling a date for a hearing. The first available date is in July 2015. Instead of scheduling a date then, he requested the soonest available date. Not sure if that means that something may open up sooner? Anyway, basically you have to schedule something in order for them to draft a settlement. He said that if I would like to "settle" the case he would draft a settlement offer and I will receive it in a few days. I would highly recommend getting any charges you have expunged if they aren't already. I found out when I received my SOI that my background report still says I was convicted, rather than dismissed. I am working with the DOJ to correct it and I brought this up to the AG and he said that it would make a difference in their decision, so I emailed a copy of the dismissal. Not sure how much of a difference it will make, but we'll see.

I hope others will be able to read this when they are completely stressed out in their last months of school because of their criminal history. I wish I had more information initially so that I could have made better decisions about my application. When I tried to find info on all nurses I found a lot of initial comments about people worried because their license was denied and no follow up responses. The last 8 months have been torturous for me not knowing what will happen. I will make sure to update next week.

3rdeyeRN · Oct 16, 2014

If anyone is interested…I found the updated terms of probation. They are a bit more extensive, including more terms, and the language is a bit more clear. From what it sounds like, they may include advanced schooling clinicals as part of the work requirements since it requires a nursing license (MSN or RN to BSN, etc). You can find these terms online by searching for California nursing uniform standards related to substance abuse and disciplinary guidelines.

DUIRN · Oct 17, 2014

h3rdeyero.. thank you so much for the detailed response. I stress out everyday about the uncertainty of all this. I wish I could just know exactly what will happen. The only thing that gives me some piece of mind is when people share exactly what they are going through so THANK YOU. Unfortunately, I did not get any legal advice before submitting my application (just help from others who went through the same thing). What would you do in my position right now? (which is sitting around waiting for denial)

morningglory123 · Oct 17, 2014

Hi h3rd.

Thanks for including the updated info. This really helps. I hope that you are offered a fair settlement and that the process for you continues to move along (relatively) swiftly. I have a couple of comments to your recent posts.

1) I appreciate you mentioning the updated (2011) BRN doc that includes the Uniform standards related to nurses with substance abuse problems. Were your prior offenses substance related?

2) You mention BRN education requirements for RN's on probation and hint towards BSN/MSN classes satisfying this requirement. I am a bit confused by this... I have thought about pursuing additional schooling while awaiting the appeal process (or after obtaining a probationary license) may help to get a job and also prove character/competence/safety/sobriety. However, I have looked into this at several different schools and most I've seen state that part of the requirements for entry are an unrestricted, unencumbered, etc. RN license without discipline..... It looks like a nurse refreshed course might be an option (although even some of those require an unencumbered license) or even ACLS, PALS, or other CEU type classes.

3) I am also working with DOJ to show that my cases have been "dismissed." I obtained my record and it only shows that ONE of the cases was dismissed pursuant PC 1203.4 when in fact, I had them all dismissed over 5 years ago! I wish I had found this out sooner. The courts where the offense happened are supposed to send that info to the DOJ and the DOJ is supposed to update their records. I would encourage anyone in our situation to obtain a personal copy of your record and get offenses dismissed asap and then follow up a few months later with another livescan DOJ background search request to see if your record shows they've been dismissed.

That's all for now. Thanks for documenting your story here, h3rd. It really helps to see someone in real time going through the process like us. I am looking forward to seeing how it will turn out for your and wish you the best! You're definitely showing your diligence here and I am hopeful that all your hard work will pay off in the long run!!

3rdeyeRN · Oct 24, 2014

UPDATE: I actually received my Settlement Agreement on Monday and I have to tell you that I was not shocked by it. I DID receive Probation Terms 1-19. So for all of you that find yourself in this situation, please prepare yourself for the worst because it is a big possibility. I had to sit and really think about this. From what I've read here and there it seems like some people were in a hurry to get licensed and took the initial deal. I've also heard that having this type of probation is like having the plague and hiring managers steer clear of you. I responded to the AG today and let him know that after carefully considering the offer I could not agree to it at this time. While I understand the serious nature of my past actions, I know that I am definitely not the person I was 9 years ago. I asked for the opportunity to submit additional evidence. In lawyer lingo it's called a mitigation package and if I had a lawyer, this would be the next step in trying to get the offer reduced. I was told that I need to submit everything I can. Letters from everyone including family, friends, pastor, classmates, instructors, coworkers, etc. Anyone who knows you. I am also getting an alcohol and drug evaluation done, it costs $75 to $100 in my area. I'm in NorCal and found a list of court approved professionals on the Sacramento Superior Court website (if anyone needs this please message me). I was also told to include transcripts and basically information on anything you've been doing since to show you are rehabilitated. Completion of court approved programs, volunteering, schooling, etc. My evaluation appointment is not until November 1st, so it will be several weeks until my next update.

sam1971 · Oct 27, 2014

I am hoping things go your way DUIRN. Please keep us updated...

3rdeyeRN · Oct 28, 2014

Another Update: I was told by the AG's office that submitting additional evidence of rehabilitation is not necessary, however, attorneys I've spoken with have all told me that they send in a "mitigation package" along with their requests to negotiate…so not sure if that is a way for them to get money from you or if the AG decides on a case by case basis if you need to submit additional evidence regarding rehabilitation.

I asked if the board would consider a public reprimand and/or citation and fine and my response from them this morning was no, that they want some type of probation. I would at least ask them for it because the decision may be case by case and the worst they can do is say no. Basically, I either agree to some type of probation or a hearing next summer and see what a judge says.

I'm going to try to negotiate the terms of the probation and hopefully it will at least buy me some time so I can think clearly about this decision. Not only will the probation last for 3 years, this disciplinary action will stay attached to my license for 10 years from the date of the stipulated agreement (and that goes for anyone on probation, a reprimand is 3 years), meaning that by the time it comes off of the BRNs website the conviction will be 20 years old and everything I did to have it dismissed was basically for nothing because I will still have to disclose it to any future employer.

FYI: a lot of nursing schools for BSN or MSN will not accept you if your license is on probation or you didn't get your license within a certain timeframe from graduating the ADN program. CSU San Marcos and a few other California schools don't list restrictions on admission for that, but I haven't contacted them to officially inquire about it. There are some out of state online programs that admit on a case by case basis.

I wish I had better news...

RN198811 · Dec 27, 2014

I submitted my application to CA BRN in February of 2014 before I graduated in May. My check was cashed in March. My application was officially denied May 9th. I sent in appeal the following day and got an ATT on May 30th with the condition that I would not know my results until things are settled with the BRN. I just received a Statement of Issues October 9th, it's basically a court document outlining your criminal history and the reasons why the BRN chose to deny your license. You get 15 days to respond as to whether you want a hearing, want to withdraw your application, or contact the Attorney General's office to inquire about a Stipulated Agreement. I heard the agreement takes about two months to draft. If anyone is reading this--PLEASE get legal advise before you submit your application. Several of my classmates had DUI's and DID NOT get denied initially like I and many others had. I am in a bad situation because I cannot afford an attorney and it looks like I will have to figure things out on my own. My next step is to call and find out what the AG's office is trying to offer me. From what I have heard it's usually probation terms 1-19.
Recommended Guidelines for Disciplinary Orders (an online document):
1) Obey all Laws
2) Comply With Board's Probation Program
3) Report in Person-During the period of probation, shall appear in person at interviews/ meetings as directed
4) Residency or Practice Outside of State-Periods of residency or practice as a registered nurse outside of California shall not apply toward a reduction of this probation time period.
5) Submit Written Reports-During the period of probation, shall submit or cause to be submitted such written reports/declarations and verification of actions
6) Function as a Registered Nurse-during the period of probation, shall engage in the practice of registered nursing in California for a minimum of 24 hours per week for 6 consecutive months
7) Employment Approval and Reporting Requirements-shall obtain prior approval from the Board before commencing or continuing any employment, paid or voluntary, as a registered nurse
8) Supervision-shall obtain prior approval from the Board regarding respondent's level of supervision and/or collaboration
9) Employment-shall not work for a nurse's registry, in any
private duty position as a registered nurse, a temporary nurse placement agency, a traveling nurse, or
for an in-house nursing pool. shall not work for a licensed home health agency as a visiting nurse unless the registered nursing supervision and other protections for home visits have been approved. shall work only on a regularly assigned, identified and predetermined worksite(s) and shall not work in a float capacity.
10) Complete a Nursing Course(s)-at his or her own expense, shall enroll and successfully complete a course(s) relevant to the practice of registered nursing no later than six months prior to the end of his or her probationary term
11) Cost Recovery (Does not apply to Applicants)
12) Violation of Probation-If a respondent violates the conditions of his/her probation, the Board after giving the respondent notice and an opportunity to be heard, may set aside the stay order and impose the stayed discipline (revocation/suspension) of the respondent's license
13) License Surrender-During respondent's term of probation, if he or she ceases
practicing due to retirement, health reasons or is otherwise unable to satisfy the conditions of probation, respondent may surrender his or her license to the Board
Optional Probationary Terms if the offense involves alcohol or drug use (self explanatory):
14) Physical Examination
15) Participate in Treatment/Rehabilitation Program for Chemical Dependence
16) Abstain From Use of Psychotropic (Mood-Altering) Drugs
17) Submit to Tests and Samples
18) Mental Health Examination
19) Therapy or Counseling Program
20) Actual Suspension of License
From what I am told all of the items that require some type of healthcare professional or testing come at your own expense. BRN recommends probation for at least 3 years. You can send in "mitigation evidence" to try to reduce these terms or try to get a letter of reprimand with a clear license (I don't know how easy that is). I haven't called the AG's office to see what they are offering yet because I was hoping that I could miraculously obtain counsel and that hasn't happened, so once I call I will give an update. :'(

Hey h3rd, thanks for the detailed response. I am in a similar situation like you. I took the NCLEX in June of 2014 and have gotten the good pop up every single time I have tried to look at my Pearson NCLEX results. Did you get the good pop up as well? Also, how did the BRN inform you if you officially passed or didn't pass the NCLEX. I have yet to be officially notified. I am hoping to get my license in January. Thanks any help is appreciated.

Jzt1004 · Apr 8, 2015

Hello everyone on this forum,

Any updates to what has happened and what is going on in your careers? I am going through a similar situation. I am in nursing school half way done and will be taking my NCLEX-RN soon. Please give me some update, thank you.