I have heard many people say this, particularly instructors. It all has to do with the balancing act... Studying enough to do well, but not destroying ourselves in the process to get A's. I understand that Nursing students with C's are still nurses, and that the student who recieved the A wont necessarily be a "better nurse"... But doesnt it seem like they would be?
I am mainly asking this because at clinical, I sometimes feel stupid! And I know its mostly nerves... and inexperience, of course. I know I can (and will.... !) be a good nurse, but I am thinking of one girl inparticular who just seems to have it all together at clinical all the time.. Who gets the best grades in our class... Always knows the answers. Does this mean she will be a better nurse than I will? Sometimes, I feel inadequate. Not all the time. I know I am capable of being a nurse, but.... :imbar
So, I know that "nursing students with C's are still nurses"---But does that mean they will be mediocre compared to the A students?
the people i am talking about are the ones who study (as it seems all the C students i have talked to do, and do it more then some of the A students) and know the information but just cant translate that over into a " Good Grade".
How is this even possible. If you know the information you know it and do well.
In fact, the only way to legitimately get a C is doing poorly on tests and/or quizzes assuming that the student does everything else required for the class.
If you do poorly on a test then you didn't know the information. I know some people say they get test anxiety but I call bunk on that. If you get so anxious you can't perform on a test how can you expect to perform as a nurse?
Also, I see a lot of comments that some people just do well on tests but how are they going to do on the NCLEX...
People that do well on tests do well on ALL tests. That's what they do and it isn't some kind of magic, it's a skill based on intelligence.
Now, like I said earlier, the grades don't make a nurse but someone that learns at a C level in school is gonna learn at a C level in work. How can anyone say any different??? To do so makes absolutely no sense whatsoever,
Also, while intelligence does not affect common sense it is a requisite for critical thinking.
Critical thinking is the intellectually disciplined process of actively and skillfully conceptualizing, applying, analyzing, synthesizing, and/or evaluating information gathered from, or generated by, observation,
experience, reflection, reasoning, or communication, as a guide to belief and action.
In its exemplary form, it is based on universal intellectual values that transcend subject matter divisions: clarity, accuracy, precision, consistency, relevance, sound evidence, good reasons, depth, breadth, and fairness. It entails the examination of those structures or elements of thought implicit in all reasoning: purpose, problem, or
question-at-issue, assumptions, concepts, empirical grounding; reasoning leading to conclusions, implications and consequences, objections from alternative viewpoints, and frame of reference. Critical thinking - in being
responsive to variable subject matter, issues, and purposes - is incorporated in a family of interwoven modes of thinking, among them: scientific thinking, mathematical thinking, historical thinking, anthropological thinking, economic thinking, moral thinking, and philosophical thinking.
So, while everyone argues back and forth and scream compassion and bedside manner, let us all agree that in a horrible emergency we would ALL prefer the smart nurse without compassion compared to the average nurse with compassion.
Sure experience makes the nurse but I would still argue that an average nurse of 15 years is still not as good as the smart nurse of 15 years all else being equal.
Those of us that have worked in healthcare have seen the good nurses/aides/rt and we have ALL seen those that make us wonder if the NCLEX is really that hard. I have seen plenty of nurses that, having passed the NCLEX, sometimes makes me wonder what exactly is on the test.
I'm not claiming the test is easy. I am only claiming that experience and education are far better served on a smart person than an average person.
I am also not saying there is anything wrong with average. The majority of people are average. That said, who wants the 'average' surgeon? Think about it...
ETA:
Forgot something. There are of course many legitimate reasons that stop people from performing at a 100% in school. Children, work responsibilities and other things. I am in no way saying these people aren't smart or not good nurses.
I base my opinion above on ideal circumstances. Those with legitimate reasons for not maintaining 4.0s know who they are. Those without also know who they are.
Getting mad at people for having opinions though is silly and quite childish. If you don't agree then you don't agree. If you do then you do...
Also, I see a lot of comments that some people just do well on tests but how are they going to do on the NCLEX...
It is going to be hard for them, but not impossible. Anyone that has taken the NCLEX will tell you that it isn't easy at all. Not only do you need to know your facts, but you need to be able to put that info together to pick the best answer. Many times you will find more than one right answer - but what is the best answer?? I left the LPN NCLEX thinking I failed. It shut off at 85, but that could have meant I was horrible.
Those of us that have worked in healthcare have seen the good nurses/aides/rt and we have ALL seen those that make us wonder if the NCLEX is really that hard. I have seen plenty of nurses that, having passed the NCLEX, sometimes makes me wonder what exactly is on the test.
Oh heck yes. :chuckle Well it actually isn't really funny, its scary. I have met and worked with several of those. All I can think of is that they lucked out big time with eenie meenie minie moe.
I'm not claiming the test is easy. I am only claiming that experience and education are far better served on a smart person than an average person.
The problem is that "smart" is not easily defined. I would not want a intelligent nurse without common sense anywhere near me. Not every situation in nursing has a book answer. In fact many situations don't. I do agree that you need to learn and have a good understanding of what is taught in nursing school. The more the better. But you could know everything there is about nursing and still suck. If you cannot take the facts you learned and apply them to the situation at hand, you will not do well. On the other hand if you did not learn the nursing concepts well enough, you have nothing to apply to that situation. So perhaps we agree on some level.
There is just way too much that goes into being a nurse for anyone to judge how someone will do on the floor based on nursing school. As you stated, there are legimate reasons why someone does not do well in nursing school.
Bottom line - be a sponge...learn as much as you can. But be aware that you will really learn how to be a nurse when you get to your job. I have learned so much in the last 4 years and I continue to learn. Never ever stop learning and growing.
I have to say, I am an A student and I do fairly well in clinicals (I am only going into my second semester, so nothing too intense yet). I have three children under the age of 7 and I am a stay at home mom. I spend a lot of free time studying and I feel that I deserve the A that I earned. In my school I am treated as though I should be ashamed to have good grades and have had at least one person tell me it is because I don't work and have tons of time to study (with three young kids there is very little free time). Will my A in class make me a better nurse? I'm not sure but I know that I try hard and it sucks when others put you down for your efforts.
I have to say, I am an A student and I do fairly well in clinicals (I am only going into my second semester, so nothing too intense yet). I have three children under the age of 7 and I am a stay at home mom. I spend a lot of free time studying and I feel that I deserve the A that I earned. In my school I am treated as though I should be ashamed to have good grades and have had at least one person tell me it is because I don't work and have tons of time to study (with three young kids there is very little free time). Will my A in class make me a better nurse? I'm not sure but I know that I try hard and it sucks when others put you down for your efforts.
You do deserve that A. :heartbeat Never let anyone make you feel ashamed for doing YOUR best. I only got a C+ this semester, but I will be honest to say that I did not study as hard as I could have. Granted I had other issues going on, but it all came down to studying - in my case. If someone makes you feel bad for what you have achieved, they are trying to build themselves up by breaking you down. Keep up the great work!!!!
Let me clarify that I do agree that there is no reason a "C" nurse cannot be a good nurse and can even be an outstanding one. There is also no guarantee that an "A" nurse will be a good one. I know one "C" nurse who took three tries to pass the NCLEX but is probably a better nurse that I can ever hope to be.
The objection that I had was the use of the forum to denigrate those who can (maybe because of ideal circumstances) or do through extreme effort and desire for excellence, manage to get outstanding grades. Maybe the best effort that I can make are "Cs" or "Bs." Whether it is or not then the measure is against myself whether I truly put forth the effort I was capable of, had the time and or energy for. If I did not and the result was not what I desired...then I blame no one but myself.
There is no spot on the employee badge for your class standing or GPA. There is no reason to be ashamed of your grades once you are a member of this outstanding profession. I didn't ask my fellow students what their grades were or their class standing when I was in school because it had nothing to do with me or MY efforts. Once you get on the floor it will matter even less.
Specializes in pediatrics, geriatrics, med-surg, ccu,.
Reading all of the posts on this topic, the point isn't whether you are a A student or a C student, all you can do is do the best that you can, take each day as a new day, learn what you can, apply what you learn, and use the base knowledge that you will learn in nursing school and apply it as you start your nursing career. You will find that everything you learn has a purpose, a good nurse is one who can take what he/she learns and apply it to helping others in their time of illness.
School is important and it is the background that you will need to be able to do critical thinking in all the situations you will encounter as a nurse. I still learn each and every day.
I have met and worked with alot of new nurses, some need some tlc in getting started, some don't. I can honestly say that I never asked any of them what their grade point average was. The curve of learning is different for everyone. I will bet if you talk to some of your classmates, they all feel some kind of anxiety and wonder if they will be a good nurse......personally, if I thought I knew everything there is to know in the nursing field, I would be a dangerous person to be putting someone else's life in my hands. You never stop learning in this field.
In my 20 years of nursing I have never met a patient that was the same. Each patient has unique problems and each situation may require you as a nurse to use different skill sets to be able to meet their needs. These are the people that you, as a person, as a nurse, as a educator, as a comforter, as a individual, that you are striving to help. As long as you, whether you are a "A" student or a "C" strive to be the best that you can be, will be the nurse that you want to be, and can be.
I loved the post earlier that said 'build each other up...learn from each other...don't tear each other down.' Perfect. I am a straight-A student. I am also 40 y/o (black balloons on my b-day last week...:chuckle). I feel so fortunate that our class is such a community. We are in an accelerated program for LPNs, medics, and RTs. We struggle together, help one another, congratulate one another, and it is amazing. I feel so blessed.
I am a medic and there is a lot of critical care-type experience that I have. But a bed bath? Are you kidding? That was a new adventure in skills. Foleys? Eeek. But I have a lot of confidence in dealing with pts, talking to them, and talking to doctors and other nurses. It comes from my profession. Took a long time...but I 'made my bones' eventually as a paramedic and it has helped me tremendously in this class. Probably the most it's helped me with is being creative. As a medic, you have a limited number of supplies and you have to 'McGyver' it sometimes. I do the same thing in the hospital.
This is all so subjective what everyone is saying! It's so frustrating because like one other person said, it depends on the person. I, too, make straight As for me. It keeps me motivated, pumped up, and no one is a worse critic of me than myself. Our class is SO open about grades it's ridiculous (in a funny way). No one treats me bad because I make A's and they understand the responsibilities at home I have as well. I don't look down on them because they don't. I post websites for research, post studying tips, and we all respect each other greatly for what we can learn from on another. That's what it's all about to me. I have so much to learn from the A, B, or C-LPN. Dressing changes, bed baths, foleys, doctors orders, etc. Totally new to me. I can help with other clincial skills that I have experience with (recognizing respiratory distress without relying completely on your machine!, perfusion, the inner workings of the heart). I am grateful for every single person in my class. Everyone has something to learn from someone else. Everyone.
nicely said Daytonite. As my instructor told our class, C's get degrees too. She is an excellent teacher and really know her stuff, you would never think she was a C student that studied really hard for her Cs. Experience will improve you. Don't compare yourself to other people. Learning doesn't come equal. Whether you get Cs or As, as long as you pass state boards and become an RN that's what matters.
I had a C average all though pharmacy school (most of my classmates did too; this is also not unusual in engineering programs) and when I took the NABPLEX, I got the second highest score I've ever heard of anyone having. I even got a D twice and guess what? It was still a passing grade, so I got to move on to the next semester otherwise unscathed.
A lot of it depends on the test format. We actually had one multiple choice test question where the answer could have been "All of the above" or "None of the above" depending on how the person read it. The professor was not happy about this, but what could she do? :dzed:
A former co-worker liked to say, "What do you call a physician who graduated last in his or her class? Doctor" and while it was a bit derisive, he was correct and you know what? I would probably WANT that person over the valedictorian, because they had to fight and struggle to get where they are and didn't take anything for granted. Our valedictorian was someone I would hire and work with in a heartbeat, as was our class president; this was not true for those people in the classes before and after me.
Those class presidents were megalomaniacs who ran unopposed and were not well-liked by other students. In one case, I actually told him this to his face. I was just fed up with his attitude, because I was in a position where I had to deal with him, and told him the truth. Oh, well.
Unless you are applying for a graduate program or medical school, NOBODY is going to ask for your GPA, ever. I did once interview with an agency that wanted my transcript, but I suspect it was because they had some applicants with falsified credentials.
Hi, Washington88, I am not quite sure what you just said in your message, but I think you were agreeing with me?! :thankya: Like I said we all have to pass the exam, so we all have the knowledge, its how you use it (along with compassion etc. which is crucial in this career ) and if you continue to learn through out your carreer these are the key points. The health care profession has changed drastically since I started over 25 years ago and I am sure it will continue to change even more. That was my point........thats all , hope everyone had a great christmas!
I just finished a semester where out of 38 students, no one got an A as a final grade, one student got a B (by one point), the rest of us got a "C" .....that passed. Only 6 passed the final exam.
All nursing instructors/programs and properly structured exams, are not created equal. I think the overall grade distribution says quite a bit about the quality of the program.
If you have no one that is getting an A...then to me, it's a poorly structured program. An A should not be an impossible goal. If you have too many A's, then students are generally not being challenged enough.
I started my ASN program after I got out of the active army, I wasnt really ready for the vigors of school, I made alot of C s in my ASN program, I didnt really know how to study, I finally learned how to study after earning my BSN and my MSN / FNP .
I have learned that it is not about the grade, i did horrible with all those touchy feely questions that i thought didnt have any relevance to the health of the patient but were tested questions.
how a person does on a exam does not determine how they will work as a RN, I must stress this.
We have a relatively new graduate.. shes been an RN a yr now working in the ICU, I had to tell her what she is going to do today for the patient I had last night, she was a straight A student.
BabyLady...this is a very true statement you made. I don't believe anyone else has addressed this, but I believe it's a fair thing to say. In my class we started with 42 in a short summer semester...about 5-6 weeks. Some people quit the first week realizing it wasn't for them, so we didn't really notice who was missing at the end except for one girl who failed by 0.5 points after final exam. After this second semester, we are down to 31. We lost 5 this semester alone. I am one of the A-makers, and there are 4-5 of us out of the original 36 we started out with in August. Most of our class is in the B-range (B- to B+) with the next being C's. Our passing grade is 78. Not sure if having 4 A-makers is good or bad, really. But, it's a great point you make.
This program is an accelerated one (one year) for medics, RTs, and LPNs. 50% online, 50% class/lab and then clinicals. Minimum requirement to get in was like 2,000 hrs of work prior to registration, all pre-reqs met, then GPA. But, you are absolutely right that an A should not be impossible, and should not be a breeze, either. Well said.
I was just fed up with his attitude, because I was in a position where I had to deal with him, and told him the truth. Oh, well.
Atheos
2,098 Posts
How is this even possible. If you know the information you know it and do well.
In fact, the only way to legitimately get a C is doing poorly on tests and/or quizzes assuming that the student does everything else required for the class.
If you do poorly on a test then you didn't know the information. I know some people say they get test anxiety but I call bunk on that. If you get so anxious you can't perform on a test how can you expect to perform as a nurse?
Also, I see a lot of comments that some people just do well on tests but how are they going to do on the NCLEX...
People that do well on tests do well on ALL tests.
That's what they do and it isn't some kind of magic, it's a skill based on intelligence.
Now, like I said earlier, the grades don't make a nurse but someone that learns at a C level in school is gonna learn at a C level in work. How can anyone say any different??? To do so makes absolutely no sense whatsoever,
Also, while intelligence does not affect common sense it is a requisite for critical thinking.
So, while everyone argues back and forth and scream compassion and bedside manner, let us all agree that in a horrible emergency we would ALL prefer the smart nurse without compassion compared to the average nurse with compassion.
Sure experience makes the nurse but I would still argue that an average nurse of 15 years is still not as good as the smart nurse of 15 years all else being equal.
Those of us that have worked in healthcare have seen the good nurses/aides/rt and we have ALL seen those that make us wonder if the NCLEX is really that hard. I have seen plenty of nurses that, having passed the NCLEX, sometimes makes me wonder what exactly is on the test.
I'm not claiming the test is easy. I am only claiming that experience and education are far better served on a smart person than an average person.
I am also not saying there is anything wrong with average. The majority of people are average. That said, who wants the 'average' surgeon? Think about it...
ETA:
Forgot something. There are of course many legitimate reasons that stop people from performing at a 100% in school. Children, work responsibilities and other things. I am in no way saying these people aren't smart or not good nurses.
I base my opinion above on ideal circumstances. Those with legitimate reasons for not maintaining 4.0s know who they are. Those without also know who they are.
Getting mad at people for having opinions though is silly and quite childish. If you don't agree then you don't agree. If you do then you do...